112 replies to this topic

[Craig Steele]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 29 March 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Such faith in vaporware... you clanbois do realize we can actually aim in mwo without the benefit of a die roll? Your goofy shapes and low slung weapons are NOT going to do you any favors vs IS when the ball drops. Don't get me wrong I'm excited about my Blackhawk too but if you thought the dragon was bad get ready to reap the whirlwind...


*edit* I love when adhd strikes mid sentence and i repeat myself myself

Can I ask please?

If you're such a Davion devotee why would you even look sideways at a Clan mech or run around in the pride of Davion's hated enemy, a Dragon.

Surely the Davion mechs are just as good as it's pilots?

[Fang01]

Ask anything wedding gift

The majority of my drops ARE in a Spider 5D which is a house Davion exclusive.

As previously mentioned I am a cavalryman IRL and a former tank crewman. I am particularly attracted to any mech that blends firepower, speed, and shock effect. if it happens to be the weapon of my enemy... Well that makes things simply that much sweeter.

[_Comrade_]

Well im hoping the Ryoken doesn't suck i just bought it

[Craig Steele]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 29 March 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

Ask anything wedding gift

The majority of my drops ARE in a Spider 5D which is a house Davion exclusive.

As previously mentioned I am a cavalryman IRL and a former tank crewman. I am particularly attracted to any mech that blends firepower, speed, and shock effect. if it happens to be the weapon of my enemy... Well that makes things simply that much sweeter.

Well actually, a Spider is Marik manufactured and Kuritan loved. Not a davion mech at all in canon.

But yeah, seems like you might just be a fan of the colour yellow maybe?

Cause if you don't like Davion mechs, what else is there to like?

Just saying

[Edward Mattlov]

Craig Steele, on 29 March 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Well actually, a Spider is Marik manufactured and Kuritan loved. Not a davion mech at all in canon.

But yeah, seems like you might just be a fan of the colour yellow maybe?

Cause if you don't like Davion mechs, what else is there to like?

Just saying

Yes, it was manufactured in the Free Worlds League, but the Free Worlds League did not find them useful for their tactics at the time so they were sold to other houses. In MWO, however, anyone who pilots a Spider and believes that they are good, are kidding themselves. Wait for knockdowns to be reintroduced and hit detection to be improved, then see how well you do in your Spiders.

[Vagabond HT]

Craig Steele, on 29 March 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Well actually, a Spider is Marik manufactured and Kuritan loved. Not a davion mech at all in canon.

But yeah, seems like you might just be a fan of the colour yellow maybe?

Cause if you don't like Davion mechs, what else is there to like?

Just saying

He is right about the Spider 5D being a Davion design of the Spider, usualy the Alphanumeric means which house created the Varient. M = Marik, K = Kurita, S = Steiner, D = Davion and L = Liao. During the 4 Succession wars house would salvage as many mechs they could from thier enemys and then using what they have in the next fight. some examples kurita forces using a Caryle's Commandos Shadowhawk 2H they had disabled at the begining of the Decisions at Thunder rift during the book. Also during the war of 3039 when Kurita took over a planet with a Victor mech factory that was developing the Victor 9D, Kurita took the design and just changed the who supplied the part to make the 9K which is in game. the clans don't realy have this issues like this on who made what Varient but they do trials over the right to make the omni in the first place. But the only mech i could see that has something like this would be the Direwolf and its Config W being a Wolfs Dragoons exclusive config.

But on topic i hope you guys come to an understanding and can move on.

PS..Remarius i am sure everyone will see you coming a mile off in that Direwolf ;D

[Craig Steele]

vagabond The Scot, on 29 March 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

He is right about the Spider 5D being a Davion design of the Spider, usualy the Alphanumeric means which house created the Varient. M = Marik, K = Kurita, S = Steiner, D = Davion and L = Liao. During the 4 Succession wars house would salvage as many mechs they could from thier enemys and then using what they have in the next fight. some examples kurita forces using a Caryle's Commandos Shadowhawk 2H they had disabled at the begining of the Decisions at Thunder rift during the book. Also during the war of 3039 when Kurita took over a planet with a Victor mech factory that was developing the Victor 9D, Kurita took the design and just changed the who supplied the part to make the 9K which is in game. the clans don't realy have this issues like this on who made what Varient but they do trials over the right to make the omni in the first place. But the only mech i could see that has something like this would be the Direwolf and its Config W being a Wolfs Dragoons exclusive config.

But on topic i hope you guys come to an understanding and can move on.

PS..Remarius i am sure everyone will see you coming a mile off in that Direwolf ;D

Sure, every house refitted salvage that they got as they needed to. It wasn't a "design" though, it wasn't manufactured any where except Marik space. It was a 'variant'.

But the Spider is no where near Davion "exclusive" ?

How many do you think they have spread around the 256 regiments of the FC? In a couple of regiments that see action against spider equipped units they will have an opportunity to gain the salvage, but thats not a lot of the total Davion TO&E.

[Edward Mattlov]

vagabond The Scot, on 29 March 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

He is right about the Spider 5D being a Davion design of the Spider, usualy the Alphanumeric means which house created the Varient. M = Marik, K = Kurita, S = Steiner, D = Davion and L = Liao. During the 4 Succession wars house would salvage as many mechs they could from thier enemys and then using what they have in the next fight. some examples kurita forces using a Caryle's Commandos Shadowhawk 2H they had disabled at the begining of the Decisions at Thunder rift during the book. Also during the war of 3039 when Kurita took over a planet with a Victor mech factory that was developing the Victor 9D, Kurita took the design and just changed the who supplied the part to make the 9K which is in game. the clans don't realy have this issues like this on who made what Varient but they do trials over the right to make the omni in the first place. But the only mech i could see that has something like this would be the Direwolf and its Config W being a Wolfs Dragoons exclusive config.

But on topic i hope you guys come to an understanding and can move on.

PS..Remarius i am sure everyone will see you coming a mile off in that Direwolf ;D

In mechs that were produced during Star League times, the alphanumeric was usually arbitrary did not indicate where the mech was manufactured, after the fall of the Star League, mechs alphanumerics began to be used to indicate the house, or successor state which it was manufactured in.

[_Comrade_]

Isn't it great that we turn a call out thread into a lovely discussion about mech-killing machines

[Fang01]

Craig Steele, on 29 March 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Well actually, a Spider is Marik manufactured and Kuritan loved. Not a davion mech at all in canon.

But yeah, seems like you might just be a fan of the colour yellow maybe?

Cause if you don't like Davion mechs, what else is there to like?

Just saying

Oh? I wasn't aware that New earth, Thorin, and old Terra were in MARIK space I didnt say all I said the D and time of manufacture doesnt necessarily mean time of refit

Not sure how you've managed to misinterpret a critical take on the incoming clan mechs and a similarly critical comparison of the dragon's geometry into a personal inquisition of my piloting choices but since you have to know I'm of Scots-Irish ancestry and my political beliefs tend to line up more with Davion than anywhere else. Furthermore C4 is considered a merc unit aligned to Davion. Privateer irregulars with a letter of marque if you will. It makes perfect sense for us to field anything we can lay our hands on

[Fang01]

Edward Mattlov, on 29 March 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

Yes, it was manufactured in the Free Worlds League, but the Free Worlds League did not find them useful for their tactics at the time so they were sold to other houses. In MWO, however, anyone who pilots a Spider and believes that they are good, are kidding themselves. Wait for knockdowns to be reintroduced and hit detection to be improved, then see how well you do in your Spiders.

You assume I'll have your undivided attention
You assume that I leghump (nope)
You assume I don't have big boy internet
I'll be fine, you stock up on tissues

[Craig Steele]

Edward Mattlov, on 30 March 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

In mechs that were produced during Star League times, the alphanumeric was usually arbitrary did not indicate where the mech was manufactured, after the fall of the Star League, mechs alphanumerics began to be used to indicate the house, or successor state which it was manufactured in.

But in 3025 - 54, its ONLY produced in Marik Space. Thats the canon from Objective Raids source book anyway. The variants are the variants, field re fits of production models salvaged and insufficient parts etc.

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 30 March 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

Oh? I wasn't aware that New earth, Thorin, and old Terra were in MARIK space I didnt say all I said the D and time of manufacture doesnt necessarily mean time of refit

Not sure how you've managed to misinterpret a critical take on the incoming clan mechs and a similarly critical comparison of the dragon's geometry into a personal inquisition of my piloting choices but since you have to know I'm of Scots-Irish ancestry and my political beliefs tend to line up more with Davion than anywhere else. Furthermore C4 is considered a merc unit aligned to Davion. Privateer irregulars with a letter of marque if you will. It makes perfect sense for us to field anything we can lay our hands on

I don't think I mis interpretted anything or was critical. Up until this post I took everything in good humour. Thats seems to have been an error on my part.

You spouted off about how all Davion you are then talked up Kurita & Clan mechs, I asked why you were Davion if you didn't like their mechs, you started running off about Spiders being exclusively Davion (they are not) and somehow I'm critiquing you?

I didn't get all upitty with your snide wedding gift comment?

Now you're only 'affiliated' with Davion cause you're a merc and you can take whatever you like. OK sure.

I failed mind reading so sorry if my innocent inquiries caused you some concern. Totalling my fault for assuming that what you wrote was what you meant. My bad.

But sure, play the game your way, its all good.

As for me, well I'm of Scottish English descent but I couldn't get into Davion since I saw the "Fed Rat" label in canon. I kept getting pictures in my head of them all being obese rodents so I went with the guys who mechs I liked so I could play their mechs (Back in the day we had deployment tables and you had be with a certain house to play a certain mech)

[Fang01]

Craig Steele, on 30 March 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

You spouted off about how all Davion you are then talked up Kurita & Clan mechs,

Where? I insulted clanner reproduction strategies and told OP he needs to set aside fifteen minutes for each match. Literally my next post detailed how DOA I felt most of the clan mechs were and the comparison to the dragon was derogatory in nature. No where did I get patriotic or talk up any of the mechs in question. Reread it. you've either misinterpreted or you're attributing someone else's posts to me

the line about the 5D comes from a rarity table actually

Edited by Khajja nar Jatargk, 30 March 2014 - 12:55 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 30 March 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

you've either misinterpreted or you're attributing someone else's posts to me

the line about the 5D comes from a rarity table actually

Funny, why do I need to re read if you responded? Clearly my understanding was correct or you would have corrected me in the first place. I mean, if I was wrong in my question "If you're such a Davion devotee..." you would have said "no, I'm not, I'm a merc affiliated" right?

Rarity tables have nothing to do with production and field refits. They are there to repsent how available a mech (/variant) is within a certain TO&E.

The Spider 5D was not introduced until mid 2800 well after the 1st Succession war broke out and Davion never had a Spider factory so given they were shooting the Lyran's (and everyone else) it's introduction was a field re fit.

Subsequently the Steiner factories dissapear (like most mech production facilities around this time) and the only one churning out Spiders in 3052 / 54 is in Marik space. Safe to assume this is the only factory producing them from circa 2900.

So sure, Davion has a few, they also have a few commandos that they never produced and a few Jenners they never made either, and so on and so on. All Houses can probably point to an example of virtually every mech in their TO&E. Davion Spiders most likely come from Kuritan salvage, the Kurita's being fond of the mech and have an OK relationship with Marik so they could buy them.

But thats makes them rare, not exclusive.

[Craig Steele]

Edward Mattlov, on 30 March 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

In mechs that were produced during Star League times, the alphanumeric was usually arbitrary did not indicate where the mech was manufactured, after the fall of the Star League, mechs alphanumerics began to be used to indicate the house, or successor state which it was manufactured in.

Ed, your stuff I usually find realiable but this one I am struggling with.

AFAIK, Mechs are listed in an appreciating production number which is not always sequential due to variants not put into production.

Then there is a letter affixation that can have various meanings depending on the mech but by convention, the House letters are associated with their House specific refit.

So for example the 3025 Spider is a 5V (production model) with noted variants in the TRO as Davion and Kuritan (the 5D & 5K respectivily while not identified as such in the TRO, can be cross referenced to the record sheets to confirm).

In 3050 TRO, the production model of the Spider is now the 7M, being both the updated (new tech) production and the "Marik" version similtaneously.

We can assume the '6' model was a prototype which for some reason, did not get approval to go into production (failed, cost, not FOTM?)

The Warhammer is another example which has the 6R in production at a couple of locations (TC, LC & FWL in 3025) but has a 6D (Davion), 6K (Kuritan) and 6L (Liao) variants. In 3050, the 6R is still in production in TC, but the FWL are now producing a 7M and the LC a 7S both of which incorporate different new tech production.

So in summary, number = tech (the higher the number the more new tech it has) and the Letter = House specific fitout (for most mechs this is a field refit as not many mechs if any are produced in all Successor states)

[Helsbane]

One could argue the difference between place of original manufacture and the place where the salvaged chassis are shipped to get the charred remains of their dead pilot scraped out. Point of issue after a rebuild and refit using faction specific design specs can be considered a point of re-manufacture due to the chassis being gutted, cleaned, retooled, rebuilt, tested, painted and given to a new unit, effectively making that pile of spare parts from several scrapped chassis into one functional mech. This is kinda the same thing one finds on the field when dealing with AK47s. Chinese receiver, Russian barrel, etc all cobbled together into one functional weapon.

Anyone else get the feeling Craig is simply tryin to start somethin? Less rules lawyerin and more sabre rattlin, and you might just get our hackles up. Till then, it's a Davion produced unit, put together from donor parts produced by a faction with less skilled pilots. =P

Edited by Helsbane, 30 March 2014 - 07:47 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Helsbane, on 30 March 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

One could argue the difference between place of original manufacture and the place where the salvaged chassis are shipped to get the charred remains of their dead pilot scraped out. Point of issue after a rebuild and refit using faction specific design specs can be considered a point of re-manufacture due to the chassis being gutted, cleaned, retooled, rebuilt, tested, painted and given to a new unit, effectively making that pile of spare parts from several scrapped chassis into one functional mech. This is kinda the same thing one finds on the field when dealing with AK47s. Chinese receiver, Russian barrel, etc all cobbled together into one functional weapon.

Anyone else get the feeling Craig is simply tryin to start somethin? Less rules lawyerin and more sabre rattlin, and you might just get our hackles up. Till then, it's a Davion produced unit, put together from donor parts produced by a faction with less skilled pilots. =P

A new point of re manufacture?? LOL, you just make that up???

I'm not trying to start anything, wasn't me who started with the snide comments. Go point your finger at the source.

But your argument goes the other way just as easily. Plenty of Valk's and Enforcers and Jag's and Rifleman in Liao and Kurita. Salvage from "less skilled pilots" wearing Davion colours.

Wasn't the point though was it? "Spider" is not exclusivily Davion and "Spider 5D" is just as liable to be salvaged and appear in another House Force TO&E, just like any other mech.

Oh but wait, you guys don't seem interested in the canon, unless it suits you.

Never mind then, nothing to see here. Move along.

[Fang01]

American, Israeli, or Turkish?

[Craig Steele]

EDIT : Fail copy, was a T-34 in German markings

German or Russian or Hugarian or Romanian?

HInt: (the cross gives it away)

Point: manufactured in one place, not exclusive

Edited by Craig Steele, 30 March 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[lpmagic]

N0V0CAIN, on 29 March 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

And 3000 years from now a child is going to sit on his grandfathers knee and ask him, "Grandpa, when did this all begin, the killing, the war, and all the destruction?"

The grandpa leans over and pulls his grandson in and tells the story of the time where a lone clanner stood proud for his cause and tried to kill the Arch Duke Iron. No one knew then, but that was the first shot in the war that we have been embroiled in for the last several millennium.

The child quips back "all of this because of one comment, grandpa?"

"Yes, my boy there are times where a pebble turns into a landslide and at that time no one could have imagined the power of the one comment. It turned out to be the rally cry of the inner sphere, I can remember it today as it was told to me when I was a child ,I challenge Iron to a duel any time,all he has to do is contact me."

Don't worry boy, we have the best pilots and the best mechs, we will prevail.

adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit

I'm just going to go on record here and say that this actually sent chills up my spine when reading it, well said Novo!

As to the rest of this, where a mech was made, and who is driving what for what reason, bah, come get some clanners, I don't care what you drive tooby, your creche will be overburdened in making replacements from your scraps, if there is anything left when Khajja is done with you, I'll be happy to part out the rest

better yet look any of us up in game and see how it goes for you, you will be hard pressed to find a drop without one of us in it, that alone should give you an idea of what you have awoken.And when its over, you will not care who is in what mech or who built it.
Lore is many things, but one thing is for sure, clanner's and IS don't generally get along, it looks like destiny has come back around.
GL GH HF