13 replies to this topic

[Mykaelous Wolf]

So I just bought a set of blackjacks and have been running 2 ac/2's on them to provide long range fire support. I have a one ac2 allocated to my left mouse button and another allocated to my right mouse button. When I fire them together as separate groupings my heat goes through the roof despite being a fairly heat efficient build(1.4). When I group them into a single weapon grouping and fire them together, I have no such problems. I figure this must be a technical issue because there is no warning indicator on my mech for firing too many of the same weapon.

[Cest7]

You are experiencing ghost heat due to firing your AC2/s withing 0.5s of eachother... you pretty much have to link them in one group to not get ghost heat.,

[ShinVector]

I think the upcoming Ac2 nerf is going to take care of this Ghost heat issue though.

[Koniving]

ShinVector, on 11 April 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

I think the upcoming Ac2 nerf is going to take care of this Ghost heat issue though.

I don't think it will, but I sure hope it does.

Truth be told we need to get rid of ghost heat for AC/2s. Given the slower rate of fire it really shouldn't need that anymore after that.

[Modo44]

Koniving, on 12 April 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

I don't think it will, but I sure hope it does.

It won't (no change to the system), but it will (most AC2 setups will not chain fast enough to trigger it).

[evilC]

To clarify:
2xAC2 fire at 250ms - within the 500ms Ghost Heat window.

As there is never a gap of >500ms between shots, the GH counter never resets, so your heat rises exponentially.

Modo44, on 12 April 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

It won't (no change to the system), but it will (most AC2 setups will not chain fast enough to trigger it).

I doubt it. You would have to change the cooldown to around that of an AC5 (1500) to make 3xAC5 not trigger ghost heat in chain fire.
I dropped into a match not long ago with a dev, and asked them if there were any plans to allow AC2s to fire in chain fire without hitting ghost heat, and the answer was "No".

[Modo44]

Did you read the nerf info? The DPS will be lowered by making the guns fire slower. Too fast firing is what triggers ghost heat.

[BlackBeltJones]

PGI has expressed that the AC2, especially in chain fire, has no combat or battle application and is for griefing only.

[Deathlike]

The DPS possible change suggests that the current cooldown of .52 will be increased to .66 or .67 to "accommodate" 3 DPS.

[evilC]

Deathlike, on 12 April 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

The DPS possible change suggests that the current cooldown of .52 will be increased to .66 or .67 to "accommodate" 3 DPS.

.66 or .67 cooldown still gives ghost heat for any more than 1 AC2 in chain fire.
You would need to change the cooldown to 1.0 to stop ghost heat with 2 AC2s.

Taking the cooldown to 0.67 and changing damage to 3 is increasing the DPS, not decreasing it.
3 / 0.67 = 4.48, a 16% damage buff.

Edited by evilC, 12 April 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[Blue Drache]

BlackBeltJones, on 12 April 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

PGI has expressed that the AC2, especially in chain fire, has no combat or battle application and is for griefing only.

What?!!?!?!? How the **** can someone grief with an AC/2 ??????? If my overpowered BB gun can keep a missile boat's head down and prevent it from firing, how is that griefing??!?!?!?! Jeezus ... PGI is killing this game with its bull**** nerfs.

[Deathlike]

evilC, on 12 April 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

.66 or .67 cooldown still gives ghost heat for any more than 1 AC2 in chain fire.
You would need to change the cooldown to 1.0 to stop ghost heat with 2 AC2s.

Taking the cooldown to 0.67 and changing damage to 3 is increasing the DPS, not decreasing it.
3 / 0.67 = 4.48, a 16% damage buff.

I'm not sure that you're getting what I'm saying. I should have made it clear.

Assuming damage stays the same, what is likely going to change is the cooldown of the weapon, which is what my numbers come down to.

The current cooldown as listed @ smurfy is .52, so 2 damage / .52 seconds = 3.84 DPS.

In that thread, Paul proposed a DPS of 3. I do not recall him mentioning a reduction of the damage to the AC2... just the DPS.

Therefore, 2 damage / 3 DPS = .66 second cooldown.

I hope that clears things up.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 April 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[Blue Drache]

Yeah, the heat issue on AC/*s is absolute crap. If this is PGI's idea of balance, then they're not getting a single additional dime from this point forward.

[evilC]

Sorry, clearly I missed where you said 3 DPS, not Dmg.

Surely it must be noobs complaining that is causing this nerf. At a competitive level, the AC2 is very rarely used (I have only ever seen 3xAC2 used on a SDH used in comp drops), which is a real shame because at this level it is all pop-tart builds.

PGI seem to think that pop-tarting has a place in MWO, but sustained fire dakka does not. This is stupid beyond belief. There is no decent counter to pop-tarting: instant point-damage, able to twist to soak damage and likely to have perfect cover between jumps.


Sustained fire dakka, however, means that you have to keep looking at the target, you need to be out of cover for extended periods and the damage gets spread about.

Edited by evilC, 13 April 2014 - 04:15 AM.