24 replies to this topic

[TyGeR STD]

This is from my phone so forgive any type-o's. I hear a lot of conversation about the issue of heavy and assaults talking 1 jump jet to save tonnage and still be effective jump snipers. What if jump jets were an upgrade like DHS, endo, or FF armor? Once the upgrade is applied it added the full amount of jump jets to your mech. They till go in either leg, the CT RT or LT. They are not locked to any area, they will float around to any location. When you add jump jets to a CTF 3D you have 4 JJ crits show up and it adds 4 tons of weight. If you add them to a HNG 733C it adds 4 JJ crits and 8 tons. (2 tons per JJ for Teir 3).

I haven't read any of the tech manules for jump jets in battle tech but it wouldn't seem that a pilot would add a single jump jet or 1/2 the amount to his mech. If you want jump jets you add them, and you get all of them. I'd you don't then you loose nothing.

Thoughts?

[Daekar]

This seems unnecessary. Can you explain why would we bother with this?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

You almost had me.

I'd say, keeping current limits, to have an upgrade-able module that could allow non-JJ mechs to mount Jump-Jets (the more GXP spent the more JJs could be used up to a set cap, with mech appropriate JJ weights).

In practice we already have 'omni-mechs' more or less with less restrictions from the original board game; and enough variants have at least one variant that could mount Jump Jets, so I don't see why we couldn't utilize such capacity if such customization can ultimately benefit PGI at the proper prices to the player.



[Daydreams of his Death's Knell mounting at least one to three JJs]

[Rex Budman]

I don't know how it would work but I don't mind the idea as such.

[TyGeR STD]

Maybe I didn't make my thoughts clear. This would only add or remove jump jets to jump capable Mechs. You either upgrade to add the full amount of jump jets to the mech, or you downgrade to remove all jump nets to the mech. It would allow you to only and 1 or 2. It's all or nothing.

[Rex Budman]

TyGeR STD, on 29 March 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

Maybe I didn't make my thoughts clear. This would only add or remove jump jets to jump capable Mechs. You either upgrade to add the full amount of jump jets to the mech, or you downgrade to remove all jump nets to the mech. It would allow you to only and 1 or 2. It's all or nothing.

How would the upgrade advantage or disadvantage you though?

considering that Endo and Ferro take up hardpoint slots, DHS's take up 3 slots as opposed to 1 with a single... Any thoughts?

[Navy Sixes]

TyGeR STD, on 29 March 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

This would only add or remove jump jets to jump capable Mechs. You either upgrade to add the full amount of jump jets to the mech, or you downgrade to remove all jump nets to the mech. It would allow you to only and 1 or 2. It's all or nothing.

I think it's an excellent idea. It will not only curb the heavy poptarts, but also some light builds (*cough spider! cough*) that strip out most of the jump jets to wedge in PPCs. It would also make players give a good, hard look at different variants' JJ capacity beyond, "can it jump or no?" It might give some less-used variants a little more time in the sun, which is always a good thing.

Your suggested solution is elegant (it is easy to understand and, though to be fair I know little about game development, seems easy to code and implement. It is a passive nerf; performing 'balance judo' in nerfing via giving players "more.") and it has a very TT feel: meaning it frustrates the hell out of players' attempts to get everything they want. How would you say, "You can't have your cake and eat it too" in Latin? That should be on the cover of the TT box-set.

I hope PGI comes across this thread and sees what a good idea this is. Consider this a bump to keep it alive longer. That said, your solution would screw over everyone who uses jump jets (myself included). Don't look for any of the "don't take my pwn-toys away" crowd to see through their self-serving myopia. You're not going to get a lot of support on this.

[Ordellus]

TyGeR STD, on 28 March 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

This is from my phone so forgive any type-o's. I hear a lot of conversation about the issue of heavy and assaults talking 1 jump jet to save tonnage and still be effective jump snipers. What if jump jets were an upgrade like DHS, endo, or FF armor? Once the upgrade is applied it added the full amount of jump jets to your mech. They till go in either leg, the CT RT or LT. They are not locked to any area, they will float around to any location. When you add jump jets to a CTF 3D you have 4 JJ crits show up and it adds 4 tons of weight. If you add them to a HNG 733C it adds 4 JJ crits and 8 tons. (2 tons per JJ for Teir 3).

I haven't read any of the tech manules for jump jets in battle tech but it wouldn't seem that a pilot would add a single jump jet or 1/2 the amount to his mech. If you want jump jets you add them, and you get all of them. I'd you don't then you loose nothing.

Thoughts?

This is exactly the kind of solution this game needs more of, and yet (b/c the game is made for children that need to premade vs pugs, or give themselves a massive advantage in some other way) it will never see.

Shame to watch awesome potential turn to such a giant ****.

p.s. really? t.u.r.d is something that needs to be censored now?

Edited by Ordellus, 29 March 2014 - 04:25 PM.

[OznerpaG]

good idea - or at least force mechs to always mount JJ in pairs at minimum. single JJs shouldn't be allowed as practical

[TehSBGX]

So JJs would become an all or nothing thing? I understand why this would be done to curb jump snipers, but JJs can also be pretty handy for brawlers too. I kinda like the idea but I'm a little uneasy about making brawlers weaker.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Ordellus, on 29 March 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

This is exactly the kind of solution this game needs more of, and yet (b/c the game is made for children that need to premade vs pugs, or give themselves a massive advantage in some other way) it will never see.

Shame to watch awesome potential turn to such a giant ****.

p.s. really? t.u.r.d is something that needs to be censored now?

No it isn't. Less customization is a bad thing. Modifying the amount of lift is a much better idea.

Also, spacing out a censored word is considered avoiding the filter and is against the rules. Just an FYI....

[Davers]

TehSBGX, on 29 March 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

So JJs would become an all or nothing thing? I understand why this would be done to curb jump snipers, but JJs can also be pretty handy for brawlers too. I kinda like the idea but I'm a little uneasy about making brawlers weaker.

So this is a vote for 'I like to put one JJ on my mech'.

[Bhael Fire]

No, what you are talking about is using a C-Bill upgrade to try to "balance" something.

C-Bills should never be used as balance mechanic.

C-Bills are used as a means to keep players active in game longer, grinding out goals. It's never (or should never be) used for balancing purposes.

[Mcgral18]

Bhael Fire, on 29 March 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

No, what you are talking about is using a C-Bill upgrade to try to "balance" something.

C-Bills should never be used as balance mechanic.

C-Bills are used as a means to keep players active in game longer, grinding out goals. It's never (or should never be) used for balancing purposes.

Well, I see it more as a tonnage cost balance. If you want your HNG to jump, that's fine, but it will cost 8 tons.

All or nothing sort of thing, which might work. It would make the victors with 4 JJ/tons a better choice, so it doesn't stop the meta either.

[Bhael Fire]

Mcgral18, on 29 March 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Well, I see it more as a tonnage cost balance. If you want your HNG to jump, that's fine, but it will cost 8 tons.

All or nothing sort of thing, which might work. It would make the victors with 4 JJ/tons a better choice, so it doesn't stop the meta either.

Ok. I understand what you mean.

Balance-wise, yeah, this might fix some things...but ultimately I think this is an overly complicated way to do so (from a programing and design perspective). This smacks of the confusing and overly-convoluted Heat Scaling "fix" to boating. And we all know how fun that "fix" is.

It'd be MUCH easier to just adjust the amount "lift" in tonnage each jump jet provides. That is, the heavier the mech, the less amount of lift it gets per JJ.

Simple, easy, and scientifically plausible.

[zudukai]

i am in favor of the change only if it becomes a toggle, and not a pay-to-switch option. JJ's or no JJ's.

good idea tyger.

[El Bandito]

Perhaps the limit of 2 JJs minimum, can help.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 March 2014 - 10:09 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

SERIOUSLY, just make it completely dependent on the weight of the mech. THE actual weight, not tonnage or weight class.

For example, 1 jump jet can thrust a 32.5 ton mech higher than a 30 ton mech....and MUCH higher than a 60 ton mech.

[Navy Sixes]

Bhael Fire, on 29 March 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

...but ultimately I think this is an overly complicated way to do so (from a programing and design perspective).
It'd be MUCH easier to just adjust the amount "lift" in tonnage each jump jet provides.

If a player owns a mech that is JJ capable, they can either have it with the max amount of jump jets, or they can have it without any. That's it, nothing else. How is this more complicated than...

Bhael Fire, on 29 March 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

...make it completely dependent on the weight of the mech. THE actual weight, not tonnage or weight class.
For example, 1 jump jet can thrust a 32.5 ton mech higher than a 30 ton mech....and MUCH higher than a 60 ton mech.

?

zudukai, on 29 March 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

i am in favor of the change only if it becomes a toggle, and not a pay-to-switch option. JJ's or no JJ's.

I envision it as a "hold" in the mechlab, the same way you can't launch a mech without an engine or at least 10 heat-sinks. When you buy your mech it comes with the max number of JJ possible (so you won't have to pay for anything). If you take any out without removing all of them, the mech won't drop.

Edited by Tycho von Gagern, 29 March 2014 - 11:40 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Tycho von Gagern, on 29 March 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

?

?