23 replies to this topic

[Supersmacky]

Maybe it is just my perception on this. I don't play Assault that often, but when I do is just seems to have become skirmish with turrets. Even worse, there is less maneuvering because of engagement zones of the turrets keeps the whole area anywhere near the bases as a no-mans land. So, less maneuvering space and pushes everyone into the same general area. Anyone else have the same observations?

[Wintersdark]

Yes. And honestly, I'm ok with that. I've got Conquest for capfun, and Assault for mostly deathmatch. Thankfully, unlike skirmish one surviving mech can't tie up all the remaining surviving opposing mechs (who can't DC without losing rewards).

Without the turrets, it was just Skirmish with a way to end abruptly. The turrets add a totally new element to the match, and I'm a fan of that.

They're a little too hard to destroy IMHO, however. Even when popped up, they can absorb a tremendous amount of fire.

[Supersmacky]

Wintersdark, on 21 March 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

They're a little too hard to destroy IMHO, however. Even when popped up, they can absorb a tremendous amount of fire.

Agree with this.

[Phelantau]

I agree completely that the turrets are to hard to kill. It is easier to kill assaults then a single turret. Don't misunderstand , I like the idea of the turrets I just think they are to heavily armored and on small maps like river city and caustic valley their spread out placement means that enemy turrets can always hit you from somewhere on 25% of the map. Not to mention the small maps gameplay has become nothing more then teams turtling up under their turrets and letting the opposite team get worn down by them then coming out to finish them off.

I originally thought when I first heard that turrets were being installed was that the turrets would be a close in defense for bases. That they would have just enough armor to make a light or medium bent on capping spend a few needed minutes to take out the turrets before they can get to the base allowing the opposing team the time to try to get back. This would have been helpful on maps like river city where assault was just round robin speed capping.

I am not a an elite hard core player, and usually only play maybe 4 or 5 games a night, but I have only seen one game since turrets were implemented where a team actually managed to cap the base. And in that it only worked because we killed off nearly the entire enemy team and then sent our whole team to clear the turrets. The turrets then killed two more of our team while under heavy fire and then we capped.

Please don't remove the turrets just tune the mechanics. As it is now assault is just skirmish with turrets to nail unwary players from the opposite team. Here are some ideas that I hope PGI might think on.

1. Drop turret armor to manageable levels, where a heavy or assault might alpha to destroy one turret and a light or medium could do the same in a few salvoes. This will give lights and mediums a chance to do their jobs again but make it so that they can't speed cap.

2. On smaller maps remove the lrm turrets completely or put them in the very rear where their range won't reach half way across the map, allowing teams to turtle under them, yes it is a creative way to kill the enemy but it's getting old seeing it every game.

3. Swap the LRM turrets for SRMs so that they are effective at protecting the base without giving them range that hampers gameplay on the rest of the field.

4. On smaller maps pull the turrets in closer to the base. If your worried that making them closer will make it easier for teams to cap, add a few more turrets. On small maps the turrets are so spaced out that they cover a quarter of the map making flanking next to impossible because missiles are falling on you while you are trying to reach the enemy team that is again turtling up in their base.

Thanks for reading, sorry for the long post. Any other players have ideas to even out the turrets?

P.S. If you want to keep the crazy hardened turrets put them in the upcoming cw when capturing major targets like capitals requires serious team play not tiny mobile headquarters in pug matches.

Edited by Phelantau, 22 March 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[jper4]

i've found assault is starting to turn into "assault for 6-10 minutes" followed by "can any of our beat up mechs survive long enough against the turrets to kill their last beat up mech?" for the last 5-9 minutes (time runs out). i've had more matches go to the time limit since turrets were put in than i had from closed beta to the day before turrets were added.

the LRM turrets are especially crazy (or just hate me), i've been chased halfway across the map by them after i peeked my head around the corner to target one (it of course started shooting before i could even hit the R).

the right side spawn turrets on crimson straight are especially scattered. you can;t even peek over the saddle without almost being in range of the furthest set of them.

i do agree that smaller maps should be cut down from 6 to 4 though. they cover too much ground on those sized maps.

Edited by Tanar, 22 March 2014 - 01:51 PM.

[Bigbacon]

did they make changes to this more like today? I swear today all the maps are extra tiny and the bases are starting with in range of long attacks and even the turrets.

at least twice today the rounds turned into both teams hiding in their base and no one doing anything because as soon as you moved out of the base, you were attacked their turrets.

Before today, I had never seen the maps for this mode being so small.

Actually, not even just this mode. Had a conquest one today to where the spawns started right next to each other and it became an all out 800m and closing brawl from the start.

maybe they should ditch them as missile turrets and make them like small or medium laser or pulse laser turrets or something. Keep their armor up to they are hard to destroy but make them annoying enough for attackers to think twice? Something with like a max range of 500m or so


I have only seen one round where the base was actually captured and that was because their remaining mech fled and the team decided to not worry about it and destroy the turrets and take the base.

Edited by Bigbacon, 23 March 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[Wintersdark]

I do agree that turrets are just a little too think. I like that they reduced their coccoon mode DR, but really they need less health when popped up and firing. It's just ridiculous how much fire it takes to disable one at close range. They should be a threat, when they're assisting enemy mechs. They should be a pushover when you can focus your attention on them. However, as things currently stand, if you're already beat up (say, late in an assault match) trying to engage the turrets can be a death sentence.

[Roadkill]

Wintersdark, on 21 March 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

(who can't DC without losing rewards).

The only reward that you would lose in the situation described is the kill assist on that last remaining light that's hiding. Everything else you've already earned and will receive whether you exit the game or not.

You aren't penalized if you die and exit the game before it ends. You just stop earning any further rewards, which are typically just kill assists for Mechs that have not yet been destroyed.

[Wintersdark]

Roadkill, on 25 March 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

The only reward that you would lose in the situation described is the kill assist on that last remaining light that's hiding. Everything else you've already earned and will receive whether you exit the game or not.

You aren't penalized if you die and exit the game before it ends. You just stop earning any further rewards, which are typically just kill assists for Mechs that have not yet been destroyed.

you ARE penalized if you disconnect and leave a game early while still alive which is the situation I'm talking about. When there's one surviving enemy mech hiding/running, the otherwise victorious surviving mechs forfeit all end of match rewards, such as the win bonus, resource gathering bonus, salvage, etc.

[Roadkill]

Wintersdark, on 25 March 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

you ARE penalized if you disconnect and leave a game early while still alive which is the situation I'm talking about. When there's one surviving enemy mech hiding/running, the otherwise victorious surviving mechs forfeit all end of match rewards, such as the win bonus, resource gathering bonus, salvage, etc.

Interesting, I've never noticed that. Which means that when I've disconnected in that situation I'd earned for more than I thought I had, because what I received WITHOUT those bonuses was about what I was expecting WITH them.

[Wintersdark]

Roadkill, on 25 March 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

Interesting, I've never noticed that. Which means that when I've disconnected in that situation I'd earned for more than I thought I had, because what I received WITHOUT those bonuses was about what I was expecting WITH them.

You regularly disconnect while alive to test that, and note how much you earn when you do that (as there is obviously no earnings screen)?

Its the anti-farming system they put in a long time ago now. If you disconnect while alive you only receive rewards you earned up to the point of disconnection. This prevents drop-disconnect farming, as you've earned nothing much at the start of a match.

But it does mean match end rewards are not earned of you disconnect while alive as they haven't been earned yet at that point.

[Omi_]

I actually like the turrets, but they make the maps feel much smaller. I wonder how turrets would play out on maps with a greater distance between each base...

Overall, turrets were an improvement IMO.

[Enigmos]

I like it that if a single mech survives but is now badly outnumbered the turrets mean he may be able to pull victory from defeat.

[Roadkill]

Wintersdark, on 25 March 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

You regularly disconnect while alive to test that, and note how much you earn when you do that (as there is obviously no earnings screen)?

Its the anti-farming system they put in a long time ago now. If you disconnect while alive you only receive rewards you earned up to the point of disconnection. This prevents drop-disconnect farming, as you've earned nothing much at the start of a match.

But it does mean match end rewards are not earned of you disconnect while alive as they haven't been earned yet at that point.

Regularly? No. Tested it? Absolutely. Tested it specifically with a farm-style drop? No.

If I'm pugging and the game's over except for one enemy that I don't think my team's going to find and kill quickly, I go ahead and exit the game so that I don't have to sit around while some idiot strokes his e-peen. But I note my stats so that I can figure out what I earned in the match, and so far that's always been about what I was expecting to earn. The "win bonus" is low enough, though, that if I'm off by just a little bit in my expectations I could easily miss the fact that I'm not receiving it.

[Bigbacon]

i think just make the turrets easier to kill that will change things a bit and have some other kind of incentive to actually capture the base over just killing everyone.

[Corbon Zackery]

The problem right now with turrets is your asking us to fight 12 mechs, and then you need to fight 6 turrets that are the equivalent to a 25 ton lance of mechs.

So what's happening is it's taking the full 15 min now to play a match. This is due to damage and loss of numbers.

The sloppy AI is also a issue it auto locks onto one person. This is especially ridicules with the LRM turrets. The LRM Turrets have unlimited ammo, 175ms spam missiles, ECM is worthless, They auto lock onto a target and just spam fire him to death. There also Clan LRM turrets one you get to min range they still do damage to you.

The amount of damage the turrets take is also ridicules. I hit one with 2 shots from a AC 20 the strongest weapon in the game and it did 20% damage come on its a Turret not a assault mech.

Because matches are taking the full 15 min this is putting more stress on the server, because its creating more in system queue's. This also effects drops because 24 people are locked up for the full 15 min. This is due to people pulling back to a base because its 8-5. Well that's great but I am winning 8-5 so I don't need to pursue you into the ridicules turrets. I can let the clock run out and win by score.

The newest tactic is to leave your missile launchers at base because you have 12 medium lasers protecting you, and 2 LRM 10 with unlimited ammo and can shoot ECM mech. Plus your 120 missile tubes with 1260 ammo at 175ms.

So Has the gameplay changed for Assault yes it has. Is better now no.

We expected 4 small lasers or 4 1 medium laser turrets to slow down, or stop one light mech from just capping the game giving the enemy force time to come back and protect your base.

Right now base capture is impossible unless the game was totally lopsided from the start 12-1.

[xhrit]

Wintersdark, on 21 March 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Yes. And honestly, I'm ok with that. I've got Conquest for capfun, and Assault for mostly deathmatch. Thankfully, unlike skirmish one surviving mech can't tie up all the remaining surviving opposing mechs (who can't DC without losing rewards).

Actually, they can. One time on Therma, I was down 3 to 11 after 5 minutes... so I fell back, and ambushed the enemy while they were attacking my turrets. I managed to take out 5 mechs as they attempted to capture my base. Turrets killed 3 more. The last surviving enemy ran back to his own base and hid behind his turrets.

5 minutes later, the match ended in a tie.

Edited by xhrit, 27 March 2014 - 10:39 PM.

[Wintersdark]

xhrit, on 27 March 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

Actually, they can. One time on Therma, I was down 3 to 11 after 5 minutes... so I fell back, and ambushed the enemy while they were attacking my turrets. I managed to take out 5 mechs as they attempted to capture my base. Turrets killed 3 more. The last surviving enemy ran back to his own base and hid behind his turrets.

5 minutes later, the match ended in a tie.

Only because you chose to let that happen. You could have attacked, because you knew exactly where he was. That may well have veen a losing proposition (not necessarily) but it was a valid combat option. In my skirmish example above, there is no option.

[mithril coyote]

no, turrets have not made assualt 'skirmish 2.0'... skirmish mode was created to address the fact that people were using assualt mode to only fight, and were complaining that people were capping bases and ending games before everyone on a side was killed. so they created skirmish mode for those who were only interested in fighting... yet everyone still played assualt like the bases didn't exist.

the addition of turrets hasn't made assualt 'skirmish 2.0'.. that attitude existed before the turrets. the turrets have forced people into a narrower area for brawling.. but thats only because people refuse to work together to do an actual base assualt, which is what Assualt mode has always supposed to be. instrad they continue to treat assualt like it's purpose is to provide a field for brawling.

Assualt has never been about rushing ot the center of the map and beating each other up,. but that is what everyone has done since the game started. now that we have real bases to attack, people just haven't adjusted ot the fact you can't treat assualt the same way as skirmish anymore. that they need to start focusing on the bases and capping, not their kill/death ratio.

[Bigbacon]

mithril coyote, on 29 March 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

no, turrets have not made assualt 'skirmish 2.0'... skirmish mode was created to address the fact that people were using assualt mode to only fight, and were complaining that people were capping bases and ending games before everyone on a side was killed. so they created skirmish mode for those who were only interested in fighting... yet everyone still played assualt like the bases didn't exist.

the addition of turrets hasn't made assualt 'skirmish 2.0'.. that attitude existed before the turrets. the turrets have forced people into a narrower area for brawling.. but thats only because people refuse to work together to do an actual base assualt, which is what Assualt mode has always supposed to be. instrad they continue to treat assualt like it's purpose is to provide a field for brawling.

Assualt has never been about rushing ot the center of the map and beating each other up,. but that is what everyone has done since the game started. now that we have real bases to attack, people just haven't adjusted ot the fact you can't treat assualt the same way as skirmish anymore. that they need to start focusing on the bases and capping, not their kill/death ratio.

the problem is the turrets are as hard if not harder to kill than any one mech. So you stand there and get pummeled by the turret(s) and/or the enemy mechs as a you attempt to kill a turret. Unless your entire team is committed to attacking and taking the base, you are better off just killing the mechs as it is easier to do.

Also there is no real incentive to take the base for a win over just killing everyone.

They could.
1. Make an awesome incentive to actually win by base capture
2. Make the turrets easier to kill but not so easy they they can get pushed over by a mech or two.
3. possibly lower the range of them and/or do something else because of the maps like river city where you pretty much start in range of the darn things (well, and the other team for that matter)

Edited by Bigbacon, 30 March 2014 - 08:15 AM.