This has probably been asked before, but just curious to know what is considered under/over prepared in terms of ammo a 'Mech brings to each battle. I'm posting how I generally load my weapons below, and want to see how it compares to other pilots (am I doing it right/wrong?).
Ballistic
AC (normal, ultra, lbx, rotary): 2 - 3 tons of ammo per AC
Gauss Rifles: 1 - 2 tons of ammo per rifle
MG: 0.5 - 1 ton of ammo per MG
Missiles
LRM: 0.5 ton of ammo for every 5 tubes
MRM: 1 ton of ammo for every 10 tubes
SRM: 0.5 ton of ammo for every 2 tubes
ATM: 1 ton of ammo for every 3 tubes
Other
AMS: 1 - 2 tons of ammo per AMS
I am mainly asking this as sometimes I've felt like I packed too little ammo, and other times I've felt like the weight and space could be put to better use.
1
How Much Ammo Should I Carry?
Started by Panzerjaeger Yoshi, Jul 15 2019 09:18 AM
14 replies to this topic
#2
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- The People's Hero
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Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:48 AM
I think a lot of it depends on what the mech does. Are the MGs a primary weapon on a light or a defensive weapon on a heavy? Is the weapon/mech a sniper that rocks 2 gauss rifles and nothing else? You likely need more than a mech that has laser backups.
Typically I would say you should be able to fire your ammo based weapons 15-20 times roughly. But once you have the mech set up and play a bunch of matches you can tune it. If you are getting the 25% ammo warning all the time and start being conservative with picking your shots you likely are running too little. If you end every match with a ton of ammo or more you are either dying fast or stocking too much.
Something like an AC20 is going to need several tons to be able to fire enough, where 1 ton on an AC2 is probably enough. Also for UAC remember to double the ammo if you double tap (though keep in mind the jams may decrease ammo need some).
I think once you get to playing you have a better sense of swapping out a ton of this for another ton of that ammo or drop a 1/2 ton and a bit of armor for another heat sink since your play style and accuracy comes into play almost as much as ammo consumption of the weapon. If you run more ammo dependent builds but aren't as accurate you are better running a bit more ammo for sustain. If you can hit a dime from 1000 yards you can go a bit leaner.
Typically I would say you should be able to fire your ammo based weapons 15-20 times roughly. But once you have the mech set up and play a bunch of matches you can tune it. If you are getting the 25% ammo warning all the time and start being conservative with picking your shots you likely are running too little. If you end every match with a ton of ammo or more you are either dying fast or stocking too much.
Something like an AC20 is going to need several tons to be able to fire enough, where 1 ton on an AC2 is probably enough. Also for UAC remember to double the ammo if you double tap (though keep in mind the jams may decrease ammo need some).
I think once you get to playing you have a better sense of swapping out a ton of this for another ton of that ammo or drop a 1/2 ton and a bit of armor for another heat sink since your play style and accuracy comes into play almost as much as ammo consumption of the weapon. If you run more ammo dependent builds but aren't as accurate you are better running a bit more ammo for sustain. If you can hit a dime from 1000 yards you can go a bit leaner.
#3
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- The Pest
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Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:27 PM
By personal preference:
LMG- 0.5t per gun.
MG- 0.5-1t per gun, depending on whether the MGs are secondary or primary weapons.
HMG- 1t per gun.
AC2/LB2X- 1-2t per gun. This is really down to playstyle and 'Mech.
AC5/LB5X- 2t per gun.
AC10/LB10X- 1.5-2t per gun.
AC20/LB20X- 3-4t per gun.
UAC2- 2t per gun.
UAC5- 2.5-3t per gun.
UAC10- 3t per gun.
UAC20- 4-5t per gun... higher rate of fire means higher ammo consumption, so UACs bring more ammo.
RAC2- 2t per gun.
RAC5- 2t per gun. RACs have great ammo efficiency for their damage output.
LtGauss- 2t per gun.
Gauss- 3t per gun.
HGauss- 4-5t per gun, minimum. HGauss has terrible ammo per ton, even with both ammo nodes.
SRM2- 1t per launcher; higher fire rate, so more ammo.
SRM4- 1t per launcher.
SRM6- 1.5t per launcher.
MRM10- 1t per launcher.
MRM20- 2t per launcher.
MRM30- 2.5-3t per launcher.
MRM40- 3-3.5t per launcher. A little less ammo for the big launchers, because they tend to be used more conservatively, and on slower 'Mechs.
AMS- 1t per unit.
I don't use LRMs, ATMs, or Streaks much, so I don't know what my ideal ammo load would be for those. Also, some builds require more or less ammo depending on what they're being used for, and how dependent they are on that weapon in particular.
For example, my Yen-Lo-Wang always carries 4t of AC20 ammo, with both ammo nodes, because the AC20 alone is 2/3 of its alpha strike and it can't afford to run out too early. My HBK-4G also carries 4t, because its favored playstyle is ridge-peeking just enough to expose the AC20; its arm lasers don't get much play until later in the match. My ENF-4P, on the other hand, only carries 3t of AC20 ammo, because it has more lasers and uses them more often, and therefore won't run through its AC20 ammo as quickly.
A 6xAC2 Mauler or Annihilator (or an 8xAC2 DWF) will need less ammo per weapon than, for example, a 4xAC2 Rifleman or Champion. The assaults are slower, so they'll peek less; their strength is setting up a good firing lane and focusing down a single target once it exposes. The much faster RFL and CHP will be peeking repeatedly to trade, plinking at targets of opportunity, and even chasing off flankers with their guns; they will probably need a bit more ammo per gun because their guns will be in play more frequently.
A good rule of thumb is to tweak your ammo load until you're consistently almost running out of ammo by the end of a match. Sometimes a match goes long, and you'll want a little bit more to go the distance, but not so much that you never run out. If you end up with a bunch of unused ammo, then it's effectively wasted tonnage you could have spent elsewhere.
LMG- 0.5t per gun.
MG- 0.5-1t per gun, depending on whether the MGs are secondary or primary weapons.
HMG- 1t per gun.
AC2/LB2X- 1-2t per gun. This is really down to playstyle and 'Mech.
AC5/LB5X- 2t per gun.
AC10/LB10X- 1.5-2t per gun.
AC20/LB20X- 3-4t per gun.
UAC2- 2t per gun.
UAC5- 2.5-3t per gun.
UAC10- 3t per gun.
UAC20- 4-5t per gun... higher rate of fire means higher ammo consumption, so UACs bring more ammo.
RAC2- 2t per gun.
RAC5- 2t per gun. RACs have great ammo efficiency for their damage output.
LtGauss- 2t per gun.
Gauss- 3t per gun.
HGauss- 4-5t per gun, minimum. HGauss has terrible ammo per ton, even with both ammo nodes.
SRM2- 1t per launcher; higher fire rate, so more ammo.
SRM4- 1t per launcher.
SRM6- 1.5t per launcher.
MRM10- 1t per launcher.
MRM20- 2t per launcher.
MRM30- 2.5-3t per launcher.
MRM40- 3-3.5t per launcher. A little less ammo for the big launchers, because they tend to be used more conservatively, and on slower 'Mechs.
AMS- 1t per unit.
I don't use LRMs, ATMs, or Streaks much, so I don't know what my ideal ammo load would be for those. Also, some builds require more or less ammo depending on what they're being used for, and how dependent they are on that weapon in particular.
For example, my Yen-Lo-Wang always carries 4t of AC20 ammo, with both ammo nodes, because the AC20 alone is 2/3 of its alpha strike and it can't afford to run out too early. My HBK-4G also carries 4t, because its favored playstyle is ridge-peeking just enough to expose the AC20; its arm lasers don't get much play until later in the match. My ENF-4P, on the other hand, only carries 3t of AC20 ammo, because it has more lasers and uses them more often, and therefore won't run through its AC20 ammo as quickly.
A 6xAC2 Mauler or Annihilator (or an 8xAC2 DWF) will need less ammo per weapon than, for example, a 4xAC2 Rifleman or Champion. The assaults are slower, so they'll peek less; their strength is setting up a good firing lane and focusing down a single target once it exposes. The much faster RFL and CHP will be peeking repeatedly to trade, plinking at targets of opportunity, and even chasing off flankers with their guns; they will probably need a bit more ammo per gun because their guns will be in play more frequently.
A good rule of thumb is to tweak your ammo load until you're consistently almost running out of ammo by the end of a match. Sometimes a match goes long, and you'll want a little bit more to go the distance, but not so much that you never run out. If you end up with a bunch of unused ammo, then it's effectively wasted tonnage you could have spent elsewhere.
Edited by WrathOfDeadguy, 15 July 2019 - 12:27 PM.
#4
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Posted 16 July 2019 - 01:29 AM
It depends on your full loadout in terms of how many non-ammo weapons, i.e. energy you have. Then depending on a game mode you build it for you plan accordingly, for QuickPlay you aim for your mech to be able to deal ~1200 dmg. It means that if you only got ammo-dependant weaponry, then total amount of ammo you take should be about 1200 dmg. If your aim is good, you can throw a ton away and visa versa add 1-2 tons if your aim is bad.
The reason for that specific number is simple - it should be enough damage to carry your team to win if it does at least something as well. Because if it does nothing at all then you won't have time to dish out as much since your team will crumble too fast. And on the contrary if your team does rather well, you similarly won't have time to deal that kind of damage since the enemy team will crumble too fast.
For FactionPlay it is about same, but can be closer to 1500-2000 if you invest most of your tonnage into two 100t assaults for example. For Solaris it depends on the division and should be between 300 dmg for lighter divisions (div.7 etc.) and up to 600 dmg for heavier divisions (div.1 etc.)
Obviously if you have energy weapons they deal damage too and you don't need to pack ammo for those kind of numbers and should invest the tonnage somewhere else. A simple example if you like ... Lets say a Dragon with 3AC2s vs a Dragon with AC10+4MLs (roughly similar tonnage for weapons 18t vs 16t).
First one is simple ... AC2 is 87 rounds per ton, 2 damage per slug. (1200 / 2) / 87 = 6.89 ~ 7 tons of ammo. I would adjust to 9 tons given aim correction. Might later tone down to 8 tons given you take both magazine capacity skill nodes. No need for range adjustment here since AC2s hit up to 900m and there is hardly ever any point in starting to engage at ranges longer than that.
Second one is a bit more interesting. I would say, roughly, you are gonna make 2 shots of AC10 for each shot of medium lasers, due to AC10 having better range and generating less heat. So x shots in total ... 2*x*10 + 1*x*(4*5) = 40*x ~ 1200 dmg. Thus x~30, i.e. 30 shots with MLs and 60 shots with AC10. With 23 ammo per ton for AC10 it means about 3 tons of ammo required. Aim wise I would add a ton for poor aim. Can then remove that ton again if you take magazine capacity skill nodes. Now depending on your playstyle you can also make a range adjustment, i.e. if you plan on only shooting at targets closer than about 500m you don't need to add anything (this makes sence since your MLs won't reach anything beyond that anyway and AC10 full damage range is also about 450m). On the other hand if you plan to shoot a lot at the range limit of your AC10 then you might wanna add 2-3 tons extra ammo.
Also of course there are mech builds that are ammo-deprived by nature. The best I can think of would be a 3xSRM4 Commando or a 4xSRM2 Locust for example. You simply can't pack enough ammo for about 1200 dmg on those. Obviously on a build like that you want as much ammo as possible since you'll be running it with no backup weapons or with smth like 1 small laser backup. So for those you simply estimate how low you are willing to go on the engine rating and how much armor you are willing to strip from the non-essential locations (empty arms and head basically, maybe legs on heavies and assaults) to free up tonnage for ammo.
This might seem a bit complicated but thats roughly how I think you can plan in advance. Obviously the easiest way is to actually build a mech, do a bunch of matches and see whether you run out of ammo when you are alive in the end of a close match or not and add/remove ammo accordingly. Otherwise there can't be fixed numbers for any weapon type since as I've mentioned it depends on how many non-ammo dependant weapons you bring and how well those synergize with your ammo dependant weapons and so on. Play the game long enough and you won't really need any of that and will be able to estimate the needed amount of ammo just from experience and already having similar builds.
Hope it helps.
The reason for that specific number is simple - it should be enough damage to carry your team to win if it does at least something as well. Because if it does nothing at all then you won't have time to dish out as much since your team will crumble too fast. And on the contrary if your team does rather well, you similarly won't have time to deal that kind of damage since the enemy team will crumble too fast.
For FactionPlay it is about same, but can be closer to 1500-2000 if you invest most of your tonnage into two 100t assaults for example. For Solaris it depends on the division and should be between 300 dmg for lighter divisions (div.7 etc.) and up to 600 dmg for heavier divisions (div.1 etc.)
Obviously if you have energy weapons they deal damage too and you don't need to pack ammo for those kind of numbers and should invest the tonnage somewhere else. A simple example if you like ... Lets say a Dragon with 3AC2s vs a Dragon with AC10+4MLs (roughly similar tonnage for weapons 18t vs 16t).
First one is simple ... AC2 is 87 rounds per ton, 2 damage per slug. (1200 / 2) / 87 = 6.89 ~ 7 tons of ammo. I would adjust to 9 tons given aim correction. Might later tone down to 8 tons given you take both magazine capacity skill nodes. No need for range adjustment here since AC2s hit up to 900m and there is hardly ever any point in starting to engage at ranges longer than that.
Second one is a bit more interesting. I would say, roughly, you are gonna make 2 shots of AC10 for each shot of medium lasers, due to AC10 having better range and generating less heat. So x shots in total ... 2*x*10 + 1*x*(4*5) = 40*x ~ 1200 dmg. Thus x~30, i.e. 30 shots with MLs and 60 shots with AC10. With 23 ammo per ton for AC10 it means about 3 tons of ammo required. Aim wise I would add a ton for poor aim. Can then remove that ton again if you take magazine capacity skill nodes. Now depending on your playstyle you can also make a range adjustment, i.e. if you plan on only shooting at targets closer than about 500m you don't need to add anything (this makes sence since your MLs won't reach anything beyond that anyway and AC10 full damage range is also about 450m). On the other hand if you plan to shoot a lot at the range limit of your AC10 then you might wanna add 2-3 tons extra ammo.
Also of course there are mech builds that are ammo-deprived by nature. The best I can think of would be a 3xSRM4 Commando or a 4xSRM2 Locust for example. You simply can't pack enough ammo for about 1200 dmg on those. Obviously on a build like that you want as much ammo as possible since you'll be running it with no backup weapons or with smth like 1 small laser backup. So for those you simply estimate how low you are willing to go on the engine rating and how much armor you are willing to strip from the non-essential locations (empty arms and head basically, maybe legs on heavies and assaults) to free up tonnage for ammo.
This might seem a bit complicated but thats roughly how I think you can plan in advance. Obviously the easiest way is to actually build a mech, do a bunch of matches and see whether you run out of ammo when you are alive in the end of a close match or not and add/remove ammo accordingly. Otherwise there can't be fixed numbers for any weapon type since as I've mentioned it depends on how many non-ammo dependant weapons you bring and how well those synergize with your ammo dependant weapons and so on. Play the game long enough and you won't really need any of that and will be able to estimate the needed amount of ammo just from experience and already having similar builds.
Hope it helps.
Edited by PhoenixFire55, 16 July 2019 - 01:32 AM.
#5
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- The Mercenary
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Posted 20 July 2019 - 07:03 AM
Run through Canyon Network training grounds, kill all dummy mechs. If you have over 0.5t of ammo left for any given weapon after that, drop the excess.
#6
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Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:16 AM
Horseman, on 20 July 2019 - 07:03 AM, said:
Run through Canyon Network training grounds, kill all dummy mechs. If you have over 0.5t of ammo left for any given weapon after that, drop the excess.
This is what I do but I use the Tourmaline Desert. See how many you can kill using different angles.
#7
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- Littlest Helper
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Posted 19 January 2020 - 07:05 AM
my rule of thumb is 120 seconds of continuous fire (ignore heat) and then adjust from there. (120/cooldown)/ammo per ton. Make sure you're taking quirks and skills into account. LRMs I do 180 seconds. UACs I do 150 seconds of single shot.
So an ac/5 has 1.66 cooldown and 35 tons per ammo.
120/1.66 = 72.3
72.3/35=2.06.
So 2 tons of ammo for one ac/5.
You don't want to be carrying ammo you almost never use, so if this is too much you really should drop down.
So an ac/5 has 1.66 cooldown and 35 tons per ammo.
120/1.66 = 72.3
72.3/35=2.06.
So 2 tons of ammo for one ac/5.
You don't want to be carrying ammo you almost never use, so if this is too much you really should drop down.
#8
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Posted 19 January 2020 - 09:15 PM
MWO has such easy answers. lol. Game mode figures into the equation too. You don't need much ammo for Solaris compared to Quick Play and it is different for Faction too. What is the role of the mech? Where are you fighting? In Faction Play how do you fit into the team? All this and all the answers above are what makes this game fun. At least to me it is still fun.
#10
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- The Undisputed
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Posted 20 January 2020 - 04:51 PM
Panzerjaeger Yoshi, on 15 July 2019 - 09:18 AM, said:
I am mainly asking this as sometimes I've felt like I packed too little ammo, and other times I've felt like the weight and space could be put to better use.
The problem is mechs with similar builds play differently. I play it by ear:
Build a 'mech with ~3 tons of ammo per system,
Play a few matches.
If I consistently run out of ammo, add more
If I always have ammo left, remove some.
The aim is to run out occasionally, 1 in 10 matches is normally a good indicator. As you get better with the 'mech you may find you need to adjust this to account for longer life expectancy and more accurate shooting.
#11
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Posted 20 January 2020 - 11:41 PM
I aim for 30-40 alpha's per match in quick play when running ammo dependent weapons.
Seems to be enough most games.
Seems to be enough most games.
#12
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- The Mercenary
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Posted 21 January 2020 - 04:52 AM
OZHomerOZ, on 20 January 2020 - 11:41 PM, said:
I aim for 30-40 alpha's per match in quick play when running ammo dependent weapons.
Seems to be enough most games.
Seems to be enough most games.
#13
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- The 1 Percent
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Posted 09 July 2020 - 11:58 AM
Like stated above... start with a couple tons, then just tweak it up or down depending on how you do in actual matches.
I've built a couple LRM boats as well as AC2 builds where I could spam shots all match long and rarely run out... thats just wasted payload. Drop some ammo, or maybe swap to a larger round (drop an AC2 for an AC5). Or if your tight on slots, just up your engine size. The lbs are always useful somewhere else.
If you have energy weapons to fall back on, its less important to not run out COMPLETELY. I hate watching someone get to match end where they COULD win... but end up out of ammo as the other guy is blazing red.
I've built a couple LRM boats as well as AC2 builds where I could spam shots all match long and rarely run out... thats just wasted payload. Drop some ammo, or maybe swap to a larger round (drop an AC2 for an AC5). Or if your tight on slots, just up your engine size. The lbs are always useful somewhere else.
If you have energy weapons to fall back on, its less important to not run out COMPLETELY. I hate watching someone get to match end where they COULD win... but end up out of ammo as the other guy is blazing red.
#14
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- Bad Company
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Posted 16 July 2020 - 05:10 PM
I guess this is highly dependent on your role in the battlefield. I play a bullet-sponge mid/close-range brawler, my rule of thumb is to pack enough ammo for at least 10 alpha strikes. Because I mainly play the "can opener" role, I don't usually survive that long.
#15
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Posted 16 July 2020 - 06:56 PM
I use 4 tons minimal for ac 20. 5-6 tons for ac 10 and same for the 5's. Lrms I use one ton per launcher. For laser mechs I max mech ops first thing for cool run and heat containment.
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