33 replies to this topic

[Saryonarve]

So, I've slogged through a few matches and have amassed enough cash to be seriously considering what mech I'm going to be buying. As far as I can tell I'm geared more towards a support role, if my recently rising performance with the trial LRM Boat is any indication. I've actually had some fun with the trial Cataphract, but its lack of long range weaponry bothers me(just as the trial Stalker's lack of short range weaponry bothers me).

Which basically brings me around to my question. What mechs should I be looking at if I intend to play more of a sniperish role? Preferably something that can perform adequately in mid to short ranges if I'm running near the main pack(i.e. searching for things to shoot. Or out of long range ammo...), while still being able to duck behind cover and deliver long range damage when the enemy is dug in and laying down their own barrage of long range fire.

I'm mainly looking for a heavy or assault mech. I don't aim well enough at high speeds to make even a medium worthwhile, and the one time I tried the trial Spider I spent more time impacting with walls than anything else(although that was my very first match). Maybe once I have more experience I'll give the lighter mechs another try.

Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Now I'm off to grind some more with my trial LRM Boat...

[luxebo]

Firstly, all the trials are being changed (for once!) Also, go to the test server and buy whatever you want! You're in luck, as today right now they are hosting the public test server (I'm unable to find a match right now but still) and you can buy whatever you want right now in there. Have fun and good luck, after trying out what's in there and what's not then maybe specify what you'd want/like to have afterward.

[Modo44]

The mediums and heavies are the most versatile. Assaults take more map knowledge to work well. Mechs like the Shadowhawk 2D2 or Orion 1K will allow you to try multiple different loadouts with decent performance and relatively easy use.

Please note that no mech can do only support. When more tanky mechs are damaged, anyone needs to jump in and soak up some damage.

[Koniving]

In the heavy category, many will suggest Jagers but for them your aim must be true. Dragons and Quickdraws; you won't hear suggestions for but I'll tell you now to overlook them -- they rely on speed and so you'd be in deep water.

Catapults are a good possibility, but they require XL engines to really shine and that gets expensive.

Thunderbolts I've found actually do much better without XL engines and are roughly the same cost; their downfall is that the large number of hardpoints they have can never be effectively used at the same time.. That flexibility gives you options. Some Thunderbolts in action. <--New vid.

Cataphracts can do pretty well with or without the XL engine. Certain ones, like the 1X, can handle high speeds even with standard engines without much sacrifice in firepower.

Orions are perhaps my favorite; they rarely if ever need any change other than slapping on double heatsinks. Just don't get the K; it runs too hot for new players and would spoil them for you.

In the Assault category, many suggest the Victor. Just remember you'll turn like a barn being carried by snails. Twist is good but turn not so much.

The Stalker may be tainted due to the XL engine; but don't let that fool you. A stalker can take amazing abuse, with the right conditions enough abuse to kill 2 Atlases. Their downfall is they can't turn, most of them can't twist, they are slow to accelerate, slow to stop, and can't climb for crap. But who cares; they are weapon platforms and at medium to long range none of that matters. It's when you get close that you're asking for trouble. A Stalker's only true long range bane is actually the LRM, due to the long bullet-shape of the body.

Battlemasters are kind of the opposite. They perform well enough with or without XL engines, love speed, accelerate and stop quickly, turn and twist incredibly well, are good weapon platforms. They don't tank quite as well as Stalkers but are superb in their own right. Battlemasters take LRMs much better than Stalkers and often laugh them off (more so with a pilot that knows how to use arms as shields) and in lore, are known for running up to their enemies, ripping a limb off of them and beating them with it. Akin to lore and unlike a Stalker, the Battlemaster excels most at a close range confrontation and sucks horrifically at long range (Except the Battlemaster-1S with lots of LRMs).

Highlanders are kind of an oversized Victor with better turning ability and survival. What hurts them is the nearly worthless energy mounts; but hey when just starting out that means you can dump them and skip the DHS upgrade for a while.

Banshees are potentially fast rhinos. Lots of firepower; enough to be an incredible weapons platform, but arranged in the most worthless manner possible (no arm functionality in 50% of its builds, and the other 50% only have 1 to 2 weapons for arms). Too expensive to get started with these.

Atlases, the "top tier" mechs, are probably about mid-tier really. I like them, and yes I with 2 others bulldozed through 3 meta Miseries and some aggressive Stalker in a minute or two using sub-standard weaponry (according to meta nuts).. but these things are pretty worthless in general and even more so in a new player's hands. I advise waiting on this dude. (Second match on this video; the colors and visuals were tweaked post-recording with some video editing.)

[Modo44]

I disagree regarding your comment about the "worthless" Banshee layout. The huge arms work perfectly as shields, making this mech extra tanky -- in addition to already having 95 tons. It can take more abuse than the Atlas as it does not suffer from the protruding CT/head, either. The Banshee is not new player friendly because of the positioning+piloting skills required, not because it is bad as a mech. The "simply terribad" spot is firmly held by the Awesome.

Edited by Modo44, 01 April 2014 - 08:17 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Saryonarve, on 31 March 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Which basically brings me around to my question. What mechs should I be looking at if I intend to play more of a sniperish role? Preferably something that can perform adequately in mid to short ranges if I'm running near the main pack(i.e. searching for things to shoot. Or out of long range ammo...), while still being able to duck behind cover and deliver long range damage when the enemy is dug in and laying down their own barrage of long range fire.

For that role, I'll be the guy Koniving is talking about, and suggest the Jager. I usually recommend the JM6-A for new players, because the hardpoint layout lets you try LOTS of playstyles to figure out what you like. Going along with changing playstyles, however, you change weapons...and your engines. Engines, in particular, get pricey.

Iusually recommend picking up the XL 300, or the XL 280 to play around with. The XL 300, in particular, is useful on a VAST array of mechs and builds. Koniving advises nabbing the DD first because it comes with an XL 260 (also useful, though you can pick up the XL 265 for the same tonnage). It's NOT bad advice. DD first, A second, or vice versa. They're both fun mechs.

Prices below are quoted for 'first mech builds.' Obviously you only need to buy the mech once, and then other engines can be put IN said mech. XL's are pricey, but worth it.

With a Jager you can try sniping. Note that I use an XL 255 for this build. That, plus the cost of the Mech, is gonna run you 9,638,070 C-Bills.

If that gets boring, try boomshotting. With XL 255, 9,638,070 c-bills.

Give this a try for a balanced, asymmetrical build. With XL 280, 10,046,403 C-Bills.

And if you find that balanced asymmetrical isn't your thing, give this a try and do missile support. With XL 265, 9,801,403 C-Bills.

Or brawling. With STD 300, 7,313,070 C-Bills. THIS build uses a Standard engine. It's heavier, but only occupies space in your CT, making you less vulnerable. Fighting up close with an XL can be dicey. Standards are also FAR less expensive.

Or my favorite playstyle, direct-fire support. With XL 300, 10,373,070 C-Bills.

If you want to 'duck behind cover' a Heavy sniper mech will still be relatively mobile for you. Direct-fire support Heavies more so.

In assaults, like the Stalker, sniping is less about 'ducking into cover' than 'forcing the ENEMY to duck by repeately hitting him in the face.' Stalkers are great for that...running a 4 ERLL can be a LOT of fun...but the build has limits.

Hope it helps, feel free to ask questions

[IraqiWalker]

I would personally recommend mediums, they are more mobile and versatile than most other chassis, however, they don't have the firepower of the heavies. If you like your mechs a bit on the slower side but with lots of firepower, then the heavies would fit the bill.

On the other hand, if you want mechs that are more mobile and agile, but still carry good firepower, then mediums would work for you.

In the heavies, I would recommend you try the Catapults (mostly missile based), the Cataphracts (great for dishing lots of dakka down range, lumbering though), The Orion (try and use STD engines instead of XLs there, you'll survive longer), and the Jagermechs (great firepower, but very vulnerable to attacks from the side as their weapons can only point forward due to lack of arms).

Dragon and Quickdraw are good, but they require a completely different style of play, and more skill to get them to work. Not new player friendly.

On the Medium Side I would recommend : Hunchback (all but the 4SP have a huge hunch on their right side that carries scary firepower, but will ALWAYS get hit by the enemy first, very nimble though). Shadowhawk (taller than the hunchback, with a slimmer hunch, but they turn like a 12 wheeler), Centurion (require torso twisting, but are famously resilient, also have an empty left arm to use as a shield, and a big gun of sorts on the right one), and the Trebuchet (nimble, and can carry all kinds of weapons, great as a second line unit and for support)

[Saryonarve]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm thinking I'll go with a Stalker mech. After playing around with the lab, it seems to fit my more favored weapons(missiles and energy weapons). The slow movement is more a boon than a hindrance at this point. The Jagermech looks really versatile, so I'll probably pick one of those up next. Hopefully by the time I've reached the point where I'll want to buy a third mech I'll actually be able to aim and maneuver at decent speeds...

[mogs01gt]

Saryonarve, on 31 March 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

I'm mainly looking for a heavy or assault mech. I don't aim well enough at high speeds to make even a medium worthwhile, and the one time I tried the trial Spider I spent more time impacting with walls than anything else(although that was my very first match). Maybe once I have more experience I'll give the lighter mechs another try.

Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Now I'm off to grind some more with my trial LRM Boat...

I would recommend a heavy. Even though they may not be what you "want", heavies work the best in MWO. I'd suggest a Cat since there are multiple variants and they can do multiple roles.

Modo44, on 31 March 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

The mediums and heavies are the most versatile. Assaults take more map knowledge to work well. Mechs like the Shadowhawk 2D2 or Orion 1K will allow you to try multiple different loadouts with decent performance and relatively easy use.

Orion is a horrible recommendation for new players. They have huge CTs, small arms(cant shield dmg) and are designed to brawl. If you want to brawl get a Phract.

Edited by mogs01gt, 02 April 2014 - 06:32 AM.

[Gtbuck]

It looks like you've decided but I'll leave you with this. For new players looking for a heavy I usually recommend the cataphract. It may not be the best for boating missles, but if you have to have them the 2X can carry 2 LRM15 with a few MLS or 2 10s with a little more direct fire backup.
Overall the Chassis is very versitile but the main reason I recommend it for new players is every variant can be run successfully with standard engines, every variant can be set up for long range, brawling, or for what you want, multi role. They have plenty of armor, enough maneuverability, and again are pretty cheap to load out.

[Modo44]

mogs01gt, on 02 April 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

Orion is a horrible recommendation for new players. They have huge CTs, small arms(cant shield dmg) and are designed to brawl. If you want to brawl get a Phract.

Orions are easy to play. They fit multiple loadouts with all weapon types, take a ton of armor for a heavy, and make for easy arm aiming practice. The arms actually do shield after the last hitbox change. You can even put some meta builds on that if you really feel the need. All of which you would know if you were playing Orions. Most importantly, they are easy. While I do agree that a Cataphract 3D is stronger, properly playing one requires map knowledge, mech building knowledge, and piloting skill. Separately, OP asked about missiles, which are never the main weapon on any Cataphract.

[mogs01gt]

Modo44, on 02 April 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Orions are easy to play. They fit multiple loadouts with all weapon types, take a ton of armor for a heavy, and make for easy arm aiming practice. The arms actually do shield after the last hitbox change. You can even put some meta builds on that if you really feel the need. All of which you would know if you were playing Orions. Most importantly, they are easy. While I do agree that a Cataphract 3D is stronger, properly playing one requires map knowledge, mech building knowledge, and piloting skill. Separately, OP asked about missiles, which are never the main weapon on any Cataphract.

You mentioned an Orion which is designed to brawl, why get an Orion when the Phract exists? I already mentioned Cats in my post for using missles. Did you bother reading it?

If you like the look of the Orion, that is a different discussion. I like how they look.

[Modo44]

I mentioned the Orion that dumb people think is limited to brawling. I find it perfect for a huge number of builds, including extreme long range setups.

Edited by Modo44, 02 April 2014 - 08:19 AM.

[Turist0AT]

Cataphract-3D was my starter mech, they ware great machines to grow in (have 4 of them and still love em). To get feel for missiles got Catapults, great machines but different (no arms,5ton lighter etc). Later got into assaults(I was not dissapointed), mediums and now lights. There are allot of great mechs (like FS9 with 8SPL).


I would recommend:

CTF-3D(the ballistic phract line) and KTO-18(fast missile hunter mechs that feed on lights).
From that you get a feel for what weapon systems you like and if you want to move on too something heavier, lighter or if you like jump jets.

Edited by Turist0AT, 02 April 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Modo44, on 02 April 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

I mentioned the Orion that dumb people think is limited to brawling. I find it perfect for a huge number of builds, including extreme long range setups.

Sounds like you are stating your OPINION on a mech and not helping a new player understand game mechanics. All of the Orion's weapon hardpoints are low except for the missiles(few). If you dont understand that mechanically that makes this mech a brawler, then no-one can help you.

Edited by mogs01gt, 02 April 2014 - 09:04 AM.

[Koniving]

Modo44, on 01 April 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

I disagree regarding your comment about the "worthless" Banshee layout. The huge arms work perfectly as shields, making this mech extra tanky -- in addition to already having 95 tons. It can take more abuse than the Atlas as it does not suffer from the protruding CT/head, either. The Banshee is not new player friendly because of the positioning+piloting skills required, not because it is bad as a mech. The "simply terribad" spot is firmly held by the Awesome.

Oh don't get me wrong, I love Banshees and the arms are nice; in closed beta I would have loved them for blocking rounds because back then when I saw someone shoot, it was almost the same time the server saw it.

But by the time that I see the enemy shoot, I've already received the damage (because the server saw it before I ever do) and it doesn't twist fast enough to anticipate that damage ahead of time and recover in case if my timing was off. So the arms aren't helping me.

It does twist a lot better with bigger engines, but anyone just starting out is gonna shrink that engine to carry more firepower as soon as possible and that starting firepower on some of them is quite awful.

Personally, I use arm weapons a lot. I mean a lot. They're great for anti-light, they're great for precision shots, they're great for elevation shots. And the Banshee is awful at all of those in its non-arm variants. In fact it can't really aim downward, it doesn't seem to go as far down as it does up and so I can't even use any real elevation to my advantage.

[Modo44]

Koniving, on 02 April 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

But by the time that I see the enemy shoot,

Come on, you are not new to this. Only look at the enemy while you are shooting.

Edited by Modo44, 02 April 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[Koniving]

Modo44, on 02 April 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

Come on, you are not new to this. Only look at the enemy while you are shooting.

I know. But my meta stomper is a DPS build. Actually most of my builds are because I hate that inability to shoot period that most mechs have.

[IraqiWalker]

Saryonarve, on 02 April 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

Thanks for all the advice. I'm thinking I'll go with a Stalker mech. After playing around with the lab, it seems to fit my more favored weapons(missiles and energy weapons). The slow movement is more a boon than a hindrance at this point. The Jagermech looks really versatile, so I'll probably pick one of those up next. Hopefully by the time I've reached the point where I'll want to buy a third mech I'll actually be able to aim and maneuver at decent speeds...

That's a fun choice. However, here's something VERY important to know.

In the skills tab you have skills that are chassis specific, and variant specific. Basic skills need to be purchased on THREE variants of the same chassis (Ex: Stalker chassis, you need to get three stalkers for this, such as STK-5M, 3F, and 5S.) These skills increase your heat threshold and tolerance, turning speed, etc. Once you purchase all the basic skills for three variants of the same chassis, (3 stalkers), you can unlock the elites, which increase firing rate, movement speed and whatnot. Another bonus is that if you buy all the elites for a mech, it's basic skills are DOUBLED. (For that variant that is. So if you get all elites on the 5S, only the 5S gets double basics, the skills are not shared by the other variants)

Once you purchase all the elite skills for THREE CHASSIS of the same weight class you can unlock the master slot for the mechs that have all elites purchased in that weight class, which grants an extra module slot.


Without getting all elites on a mech, your performance will be hindered a bit. I would honestly recommend that you get 3 stalkers, get them all to full basic status, then get whichever ones you like to full Elite status before moving on to another chassis. You can then master them whenever you want.

Also, once you play a chassis you will accumulate XP for it, so even if you sell it, you will retain that XP, so that if you repurchase it, you can pick up where you left off (should be noted that you can't access and convert that XP unless you own the chassis). Plus, using a trial mech will actually accumulate XP for that chassis, so you can stack XP on the VTR-9S by playing the new VTR-9S(C) trial mech, without purchasing the 9S.

I recommend that you ask questions here about the mech skills if you have them. Most of us have danced with the system long enough to give you accurate numbers and recommendations, not to mention priorities if you need them.

[Saryonarve]

Well, I don't really need to worry about prioritizing skills with this particular mech. Because of all the time I'd spent on the trial mech I was able to instantly unlock nearly every basic skill anyway. Didn't take long at all before I had all of them. You do, however, make a very good point about unlocking skills on three mechs first. I guess that means that I'll actually be picking up a Jagermech fourth, and if I still can't run and shoot at the same time by the time I'm ready for the next set of mechs, I may end up committing virtual seppuku...

On another note, I'm actually liking my Stalker already, my own lack of skill notwithstanding. I'm currently running the default 255 engine(those things are pricey), 2 PPCs, 2 LRM 15s, and 4 Med Lasers. I think I could almost push this thing faster than it runs, but the missiles help a bit with that. I haven't placed any Double Heat Sinks beyond the upgrade(mostly due to a lack of funds), but I honestly don't know that a couple more would make a terrific difference.