23 replies to this topic

[Graystone1]

Howdy,
I just started the game late yesterday. Enjoying it a lot. After staying up most of the night gathering c-bills I bought a Cataphract-3D. The amount I still don't understand could fill a textbook. So I was wondering if you could give me your thoughts on this build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...048d435a0646ac1

The idea is to be a short-mid range brawler with a big friggin gun. I'm concerned about the cooling efficiency stat That i don't really understand.
I threw ferros fibrous armor in there cause I could.
I still have 1 ton free.
Also concerned about what may be noob armor distrubution.

Just tell me all your thoughts on it. Thank you

[smokefield]

try smth like this

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4ef673935587ab9[/smurfy]

use always endo insetead of ferro..you gain more.

use double hs if you can.

have some longer range weapon..it will come usefull even if you are a brawler.

[TheCaptainJZ]

First, upgrade to double heat sinks.

Second, you want to take out FF armor and put in Endo steel structure. Endo steel is ALWAYS more beneficial in saving weight. FF armor does NOT offer more protection, just a small weight savings, but endo saves more weight. They both require 14 slots so all but a handful of mechs can only use one of the upgrades.

Your armor distribution has a couple of bad points.
- Leg armor should be 35+ (one of yours is only 18!)
- Arm armor should be 30-35+
- Torso sections should be maxed out. The rear numbers look right, but max out the front.
- Head can usually be dropped a little to like 12 without much risk.
- Need more AC20 ammo and place one ton in the same section as the gun and the other in the other torso perhaps. If you are worried about ammo explosions, put in CASE in the left torso with all your ammo. Arms are big targets and not really a good location in that mech.

Heat is something you will just have to get a feel for in matches. If you run too hot, add heatsinks and take out weapons, or learn fire discipline and don't fire them all at once. For example, you can have a pair of large lasers for mid-range engagements and a pair of small lasers for very close encounters. You wouldn't want to fire both pairs at the same time unless you have a good shot at <100 meters (optimal range of small laser is 90m). You do absolutely want to put double heat sinks in as your next move.

You could get away with a slower engine. Maybe 280ish or 260ish if you need more space.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 02 April 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[Gtbuck]

I made a few adjustments http://mwo.smurfy-ne...01a39482bc3f6bf

If your new I'm assuming the reason you didn't add double heat sinks was because you couldn't afford them, be sure and upgrade them as soon as you have the available money, you can get more cooling for less weight, use the weight savings to put more armor in your arms. As was already stated always upgrade endosteel instead of FF, but since you have already don't go back to standard armor for now because that will cost you more c-bills.
When using an ac-20 I recommend not taking less than 3 tons of ammo, that's only 21 shots and you'll use them up quickly, and lastly in general 2 JJs are plenty for a ctf-3d, it may change soon, but the 3rd and 4th JJ currently doesn't add a lot of in game height.

And if your mission is to build a CTF-3D for brawling this is my vision of how it should look.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...79d367ed810d365

Many other options of course but just working off of what you were going for.

Edited by Gtbuck, 02 April 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[Modo44]

The general build idea is good -- AC20+4xML is very scary up close. However, you want to modify the specific equipment. Endo Steel before Ferro Fiber, and virtually always Double Heatsinks. I would also add C.A.S.E. to protect from ammo explosions, and much more leg armor (they tend to get hit a lot when you jump). Take this.

[luxebo]

Try to max out armor, use DHS and Endo, stick to all medium lasers, add AC20 ammo, and use only 2-3 JJs no need for four. That should set you well out here, though you'd need a bit of money for the upgrades and STD engine, maybe try to use another engine for the time being (XL 280? I'm not sure, as it wouldn't be optimal.)

[Graystone1]

Woah!!!! What a responsive and nice community! No one even called me a noob!
First off I thought I did have double heatsinks. But I guess I misunderstood what they are. Is it something in the engine? I just figured i'ld do the build and throw in as many heatsinks as I could after. Guess that's not how it works.

Ok, so double hs, endo steel, less JJs, max torso armor, more AC20 ammo, thx for explanations. I'll look at those builds when I arrive home soon. There was also one suggestion for a long range gun.

[Koniving]

Graystone1, on 02 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Just tell me all your thoughts on it. Thank you

AC/20 is an attention getter. If you don't like attention it might be a good idea to go a bit lower.

That said, the shoulder weapons fire over hills better than the arm ones. Might want to stick with a normal medium laser there, put the pulse laser in an arm where (when using the arms to chase lights) you can make the best use of the pulse laser (shorter beam duration, faster damage dealing, more damage is ideal against lights and arms chase lights faster than the body can with armlock turned off).

Beyond that I would (as soon as possible) change to double heatsinks for faster cooling.

Pretty decent start. DHS are found in both the engine and added on. The default build came with them only in the engine but you could have added them to the body as well.

[Koniving]

Now for my ideas.

Remember for lasers and PPCs, twice the range stated is 0 damage (max range = 0 damage at range).
For ballistics, twice the range stated is half the damage, and three times the stated range is 0 damage.

This is something I personally would run, but many here call my builds heresy in the making. It's built with 3 buttons in mind.

This pretty efficient build is built with a budget in mind. It does not require the DHS upgrade, so if you're short on cash this will really benefit you. Built with 2 buttons in mind. Both guns require leading on fast targets. It's best to engage slower targets, preferably when they are already busy. Stick near other players with big mechs and remember when you take fire, twist right (to give them your left side). Your entire left side is completely useless for anything but soaking up damage with this build.

This build is designed also with a budget in mind. ER (Extended Range) Large Lasers up top for shooting over hills. MPL (Medium Pulse Lasers) for anti-light shoot 'em downs. The MGs are there to fire at any time something is close. The beauty of this build is it does not require any kind of leading what so ever. All weapons here are hit-scan, which means you point at target and squeeze trigger -- they are instantly hit, there is no travel time, no ability to miss. It's designed for 3 buttons but you can squeeze the MPLs and MGs on the same trigger since they have similar effective ranges. The MGs won't truly shine until the enemy's armor is opened up, though.

[Clydewinder]

I like that build and run pretty much the same thing on my CTF-1X ( minus the jump jets of course )

Here is yours with some minor fine tuning ( more ammo, more armor, more heatsinks and endo instead of ferrofibrous )

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23190a8afd31737

[Auton]

Well a different way to do it and to get away from the AC20 you can go with this build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7434864920c9f28

This build uses an XL Engine for the Speed (69.4 KPH) but you could easily remove that. If you have not tried out Large Pulse Lasers you might find they are very effective. Also an LBX10 is damaging and can be used to hit lights. If you want more brawling you can switch out the XL Engine for a 280 Standard. Lower the LBX10 to UAC5 2/Tons of ammo and remove the AMS. This will last longer and you can do some major alpha damage. It still runs hot but you will just need to practice how to shoot for the most efficient heat management.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a5ca537d5a9898

[L a S e R]

Koniving, on 02 April 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Now for my ideas.

Remember for lasers and PPCs, twice the range stated is 0 damage (max range = 0 damage at range).
For ballistics, twice the range stated is half the damage, and three times the stated range is 0 damage.

This is something I personally would run, but many here call my builds heresy in the making. It's built with 3 buttons in mind.

This pretty efficient build is built with a budget in mind.

This build is designed also with a budget in mind.

Koniving, your "budget" builds are more expensive then the "non-budget" builds. Just saying

Edited by L a S e R, 02 April 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[Graystone1]

ok! I'm Reading and trying to comprehend everything. There's something that worries me though. Many of these builds don't have CASE. I don't know the conditions that cause ammo to explode internally but the idea worries me. Like putting lots of AC20 ammo in the legs but with no case SOUNDS like a recipie for disaster.
Am I wrong?

[Koniving]

L a S e R, on 02 April 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Koniving, your "budget" builds are more expensive then the "non-budget" builds. Just saying

I wasn't actually aware, but the non-budget ones are working with stuff he already has so they're not as expensive as you might think. He's already paid for the engine, already has most of the medium lasers and has 1 MPL already. Most of the expense is adding Endo Steel and re-adding DHS.)

Oh, and looking at the engine, it turns out the XL 280 engine is Already Bought and comes with the mech! O_O! Awesome! Explains the cheapness. Screw it, Gray switch over to the XL 280 engine. You can carry much more weaponry and stuff with it (but you'll die soon as a side torso is destroyed).

Graystone1, on 02 April 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

ok! I'm Reading and trying to comprehend everything. There's something that worries me though. Many of these builds don't have CASE. I don't know the conditions that cause ammo to explode internally but the idea worries me. Like putting lots of AC20 ammo in the legs but with no case SOUNDS like a recipie for disaster.
Am I wrong?

Case won't protect your body from damage surging through the legs into them.
MWO's implementation of case is like a bordering wall that protects the CT and that's it. Unlike Battletech Inner Sphere CASE (which protects both going in and surging out from all sides), MWO's C.A.S.E. is generally worthless.

It is a disaster if the enemy shoots your legs with machine guns or LB-10x after the armor is gone.

Edited by Koniving, 02 April 2014 - 01:51 PM.

[Graystone1]

Koniving, on 02 April 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Case won't protect your body from damage surging through the legs into them.
It is a disaster if the enemy shoots your legs with machine guns or LB-10x after the armor is gone.

Well I guess that's a form of balance. So I put all the ammo in the torso, hope that's fine. Also hope 1k is enough AMS ammo. Dunno how AMS works but I know I want it.
How does this look?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a64ea61c200650a
Thanks to everyone's help the numbers on this mech have almost doubled.

[luxebo]

AMS is an automatic system that fires bullets into the air to counter any sort of missiles in the area (SRMs, SSRMs, LRMs.) Mainly for LRMs, but use it as secondary, it's best to use cover to dodge missiles.

Edit: For the build, I suggest having CASE some how to prevent ammo explosions. Try to max as much armor as possible. Otherwise, it's not bad!

Also, you should try to start planning other phract builds, as you'd need 3 of them to master the chassis (any of them, CTF-1X, CTF-2X, CTF-4X, CTF-IM). If you already have CTF-3D, then don't get CTF-3D(C), as it's purchasable with real money but counts as the same chassis as CTF-3D. Champions give a 10% XP bonus, and comes with some gear possibly used. Heroes, like the Ilya, are different and count as different mech variants. It has 30% C-bill bonus, and also has uniqueness. Both champions and heroes cost MC or real life money. Just a bit of forward knowledge.

Edited by luxebo, 02 April 2014 - 02:13 PM.

[Graystone1]

Thanks.
Well looks like I've got a lot of games to play in order to grind out money for this build. Thanks a lot everyone

[MerryIguana]

Graystone1, on 02 April 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Well I guess that's a form of balance. So I put all the ammo in the torso, hope that's fine. Also hope 1k is enough AMS ammo. Dunno how AMS works but I know I want it.
How does this look?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a64ea61c200650a
Thanks to everyone's help the numbers on this mech have almost doubled.

I would rearange ammo a bit and up head armor to 16. Ammo in legs is safer than torso especially for a brawler like this. Besides that, great build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a599f47c56eaf8

Edited by MerryIguana, 02 April 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[Koniving]

Graystone1, on 02 April 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Well I guess that's a form of balance. So I put all the ammo in the torso, hope that's fine. Also hope 1k is enough AMS ammo. Dunno how AMS works but I know I want it.
How does this look?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a64ea61c200650a
Thanks to everyone's help the numbers on this mech have almost doubled.

Made exactly 2 changes. Swapped the AMS to the head.

It'll last longer than you think and will kill you almost instantly if it explodes; it's 0.024 damage per bullet remaining at 500 bullets that's ...apparently they changed it. Oh there's an extra 0 in there. It used to do 0.24 damage per bullet, at 500 bullets left that'd do 120 damage to you. Now it only does 12. Up to you then. Note every mech always uses head ammo first.

I relocated a DHS to the left torso (edit: from the engine). The more solid slots you have in each body part, the more they 'soak damage' and spread it around instead of allowing it to concentrate. A DHS with 3 slots has 3 times more of a chance to soak up "Crit (component) Damage" than a single slot of ammunition. Thus with just the two, the DHS has 3 out of 4 chances of every hit hurting it instead of your ammo. Since your engine cannot be destroyed by crit damage (yet), using DHS to damage-sponge there is kinda pointless and just for saving slots.

(The reason I say solid slots is the "dynamic" slots taken by upgrades do not count. Neither do blank slots.)

Though you may consider allocating more armor to the front if you feel you are dying too quickly.

And if that still doesn't help, remember that AC/20s are very short range (your entire loadout is) and that AC/20s draw a lot of attention. It's like a squirrel to a dog. "I love y--SQUIRREL! KILL IT!"

Edited by Koniving, 02 April 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 02 April 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

AC/20s draw a lot of attention. It's like a squirrel to a dog. "I love y--SQUIRREL! KILL IT!"

Note that this is not always a bad thing - if you notice the enemy tends to focus strongly on you - use that to your teams advantage!
The longer they are chasing you - the less time they are shooting at your teammates.