8 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

Ok, i was looking at both these mechs, and trying to figure out if there is any difference, outside of the 30% hero, and the paint job.. (while both great reasons to get the mech) I am having a hard time finding out if there is any other difference. they look to have the same weapons loadout, the Hero also has the endo-upgrade, which is nice so you don't have to buy that extra.

Is there anything else i am missing?? Now that i have 3 HBKs, 3 cat's, 4 phracts, (darn sale hit like 10 mins after i bought my third, and could not pass up the lily, but not to sad as they are all pretty solid mechs) and 3 ravens, I am really considering grabbing 2 more dragons, and then taking some time and playing around with all these mechs to get to master unlocks and grind some module money, and save for a rainy day... But there is also something inside of me saying.. Ohh just wait on the goon, and get 3 thunderbolts instead!!

But you know how it is.. A wolverine is calling, along with those cute little commando's... But still, the thunderbolts just look so bad Ass, and the load outs seam fairly unique.. not to mention,one might be a decent energy boat i can get behind. My 4P just does not cut it for me..


*edit, PS, can anyone think of any reason to keep any engine under 250? personally i have never found a use for them.. and sold a few.. But i just had to ask if any were worth using for anything but the craziest of builds?

As always,, Thoughts and comments are always welcome

Edited by JC Daxion, 08 April 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[DONTOR]

Well the ballistic point on the Flame is really high up for hill hump sniping if your into that kind of thing. The energy points are all low slung in the arms. Also it is the only dragon with the capablity of carrying an AC20.
On the 1C, the ballistic point is low and 2 of your energy points are high on your shoulder for sniping with PPCs or ERLL.

I like the Flame for the AC20, and I like the 1C for a fast skirmisher, the 2 energy hardpoints on your shoulder allow you to fire without exposing your huge dragon CT so it is actually quite useful.

[Latorque]

Loved the flame something fierce when my build mounted an XL350; it went 104 km/h when elited. Contrary to popular belief, it was a fragile; but quite powerful brawler build when sporting a LB-10X.

Problem is; speed is no good by now because the playstile forces you to leave cover from time to time; which ends deadly absurdly fast after the recent changes; and i doubt the Flame can be fielded as a valid sniper build (there are others around the weight class who are far more suited, since all 4 energy slots are mounted very low). Never tried an AC20 on mine, but it might be an option - on the other hand, the Dragon is definitly a XL-beast; while the center torso is gigantic; your side torsi are petty well potected.. I would advise against it; at least at the moment.

Edited by Latorque, 08 April 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

The Flame can do a few builds the 1C can't and the hardpoint placement can be considered superior. Before the gauss rifle chagnes I would say a Flame with 4xMlasers + gauss and an XL340 was the best dragon but now all the dragons are about the same in my book.

The Flame and the 1C are going to play very much the same. It mostly comes down to if you want a ballistic in that shoulder or some large lasers.

Regarding engines rated less than 250. A few mechs such as the black jack can't mounted engines that big. However these mechs usually need an XL anyways so I see no point in keeping standard engines below 250.

Edited by Rouken, 08 April 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[Roughneck45]

The only difference is the ballistic hardpoint is high mounted in the torso, instead of low mounted in the arm.

IMO, the Flame and the 1C are the best Dragons. The 4 energy is what makes them really potent because you don't have a lot of tonnage to play with ballistics and not enough critical slots for missiles.

As far as engines lower than 250, only the craziest builds use them. You always want those 10 true double heat sinks built into the 250 or higher engine.

Edited by Roughneck45, 08 April 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[DONTOR]

Standard 250s can work well in some jaeger builds, but I cant think of much else I use them in. I keep 1 standard 225 and 250, and sold every other small standard I had.

[Modo44]

The Flame is required for some of the strongest builds because of the unique shoulder ballistic hardpoint. If you have not tried a Dragon before, I would recommend getting the 1C (best Cbill Dragon IMO) before the Flame. This mech requires a lot of unique skills to be any good, and if the 1C does not work for you, neither will the Flame. You can start relatively cheaply by keeping the stock STD300 and using AC10+4xML on it. Engines rated under 300 will get you killed in horrible ways. You want speed, and you need to keep moving all the time.

Edited by Modo44, 08 April 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[JC Daxion]

well it sounds like that they are both good... But i really do love the AC-20 option.. But then again, i have many mechs that use it already, so maybe i will just try the 1C.. But after thinking about it, I really am leaning towards getting that Thunderbolt just to try... after selling all my engines, i have almost enough! besides maybe the flame will go on sale sometime in the near future

thanks again as usual for all the excellent information!

[Koniving]

JC Daxion, on 08 April 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

As always,, Thoughts and comments are always welcome

To your question.

• DRG-FLAME "Flame"
  
  • Piloted by Martin Takeda, the Dragon DRG-FLAME is a modification of DRG-1C he inherited from his grandmother. As a direct opposite of his brother's Fang, he altered the 'Mech to be a good long-range fighter. His signature change is the moving of the AC/2 from the machine's arm to the left torso. It is equipped with a Medium Laser, AC/2, LRM-5, and an ER Large Laser. (This is an apocryphal 'Mech, designed for MechWarrior Online).
• DRG-FANG "Fang"
  
  • Piloted by Donald Takeda, the Dragon DRG-FANG is a modification of his father's DRG-1N. He designed the 'Mech to suit his brawling style in battle, giving it high armor, speed and close-range armament. It boasts a load out of two Medium Lasers, an SRM 6, and an AC/10. (This is an apocryphal 'Mech, designed for MechWarrior Online).

The two Dragons are basically tweaked versions of previous Dragons. PGI tries, when possible, to make a hero mech be a tweaked combination of two or more variants' traits.

Examples
The Pretty Baby is a 8V body combined with a 9M's arms.
The Muromets combines Cataphract 3D body (without the JJs) with a 3D right arm and a 4X left arm with hand actuator attached.
The Firebrand is essentially a Rifleman (the Jagermech predecessor that can't be legally used due to copyright infringements).
The Protector combines the Orion V right torso with the Orion K left torso and completes the picture by replicating Dragon Slayer and Heavy Metal's best-selling combination of 3 energy, 2 missile and 2 ballistic.

Throughout most of the heroes you can see they combine traits. Huginn is a Raven 4X, with the ballistics split up to make up for the 4X's biggest problem (all ballistics on one side = always die from that side) and Raven 3-L's winning 2 missile launchers slapped on.

In the case of the Dragons, the pun "Double Dragon" apparently came to their mind and instead of combining two or more variants they decided to try reworking existing variants. After all the Dragon heroes were in a time when PGI was very very careful about what to "pump out" to avoid pay to win accusations.

Oh and this is tacked in after I hit post but...
One funny thing about the Huginn. If you round out the armor tonnage, then change that armor from Ferro to Standard mathematically for the same exact tonnage, you have the exact amount of armor as a Raven 2X. So Huginn is a combination of all 3 Raven variants. I thought that was pretty cool (was figuring out something for whether or not most of the heroes fit in with my armor concept).

From my armor concept stoof.

Spoiler

Notes: The plan: per variant armor restrictions based on stock by taking stock and saying the max armor is always "3 tons" above stock. Note: Using Buckminister's tweak, making Ferro useful by tweaking the rule to be: "Maximum armor is tonnage-based." Essentially stock tonnage + 3 tons = new maximum armor.
1 ton Standard = 32.
1 ton Ferro = 36.
Rule for all mech builds from tabletop: Armor can only be added in increments of 0.5 tons. So 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, etc. No other decimal is valid and is a fluke of PGI meddling by changing stock to suit their needs.
Note: Hardened armor is allowed double the tonnage but comes at the cost of severely reduced mech flexibility and speed in addition to the immense weight and slots consumed. Hardened armor is not likely to make an appearance in MWO and thus is not included in the equations but it is accounted for.

Raven
3-L
161 stock -- INVALID NUMBER (5.####)
160 = 5 tons. Check! Continue.
Max armor tonnage: 8 tons.
256 max standard.
288 max ferro.

2X
208 stock
6.5 tons.
New max 9.5 tons of armor.
304 max standard.
342 max ferro.

4X
224 stock
7 tons
New max 10 tons of armor.
320 max standard
360 max ferro.

Huginn
Stock 232 = 6.444444 tons INVALID. Rounding to nearest 0.5.
Adjusted stock 234 = 6.5 tons Ferro. Check! Continue. New max armor weight 9.5 tons.
(Switched to 6.5 tons Standard: 208 points armor stock).
342 Ferro max.
304 standard max.

Edited by Koniving, 08 April 2014 - 12:51 PM.