101 replies to this topic

[CygnusX7]

If there is a DDC meet up with it and consider suggesting the same to your team mates.
I usually tell the lance which lance I'm heading towards.

Also, communicating with your team sometimes helps.

Group up.
Focus fire.
Aim for the broken bits.

Edited by CygnusX7, 04 April 2014 - 06:40 AM.

[Onyxian]

richie b, on 04 April 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

I'm completely with you on this. What has annoyed, it appears, both me and the OP is being dropped into games with folk in the same boat against folk who have learnt. That is, when there is a system that actively mitigates against learning to play...
Am I naive in expecting to have sort-of faintly-even teams sometimes?

Amen

mogs01gt, on 04 April 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

IMO the game becomes fun once you find a mech that suits your play style and once your ELO gets a bit higher. Low ELO hell sucks because those players simple dont care to play well.

Higher Elo? My Elo is apparently too high for some damn reason already. I don't belong in games with these kind of players.


And as far as my question about no premades ever being on my team, the answer is the matchmaker gods hate me? How many chickens do I have to sacrifice to get on their good side?? Just let me know, I'm totally ready to do it!

And yes, I really dig the whole Mechwarrior universe. I even played the Mechwarrior RPG. But I've got plenty of other games that I actually have fun playing, as opposed to forcing myself to play a game in the *hope* that *eventually* I'll get better or the matchmaking will get better, etc.

So everyone seems to agree that the game not any fun to start out with. Just gotta bend over and beg for lube until I get to the point I can bend others over and make them beg for lube?

CygnusX7, on 04 April 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

If there is a DDC meet up with it and consider suggesting the same to your team mates.
I usually tell the lance which lance I'm heading towards.

Also, communicating with your team sometimes helps.

Group up.
Focus fire.
Aim for the broken bits.

Huddling around the Atlas is what's getting team slaughtered constantly. At least, a big part of it

Edited by Onyxian, 24 August 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[Graves24]

The game is great fun 95% of the time, the other 5% I face so many long range enemies that I get destroyed very early in the game. A big part of the problem are the LRM enemies but I am not using AMS or an ECM mech yet because I am cheap and want to squish in more ammo and peacemakers. (:

[o0Marduk0o]

Sometimes you may have a premade on your team but they are just horrible. It is totally random. See, I lost the last 4 games out of 6 but then again I have winning streaks. Just try to have a good performance in your game, even if you lose. In the long run your W/L will even out.
Often when you're facerolled by enemy team, they have no premade as well, their PUGs just play better.
The average Elo score of both teams is quite even but it says little about the quality of individual players.

Sometimes I say to myself "the game would be so much better without other players" when herding sheeps is driving me nuts but the next match might be much better and in PvP someone has to lose.

[Denolven]

Onyxian, on 04 April 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

I wonder how much business PGI has lost because everyone's initial experience is so bad

You probably didn't realize how important this sentence is. This is the very reason why MWO is alot more deserted than it should be. Yes, parts of the game are fun. But there are so many unfun parts that everytime I play it I'm like "oh man why does this have to be so damn annoying?"

The keyword here is frustration. A little frustration here, a little frustration there, and suddenly your customer walks away. If your product feels like it's punishing the user for using it, then people won't use it, it's that simple. And it's one of the game's major issues. Well, at least that's what I always say, not that anyone cares about my mumbling...

Spoiler

]As a designer it hurts me to see the state of the game-user-interaction. Surprisingly, the actual core game is quite nice and relatively well done - once you get into 3D mode, everything is ok, except for some medium issues like missing textures or crashes (again, frustration adds up).
But the user experience is waaaayyy down the bottom. I have never seen a game that is both so cool (everyone loves robots and lasers!) and yet so discouraging at the same time. One minute into my login and I already feel like this is so painfull to use that it's wasting my time.

Anyway, I'm not sure how much PGI has realized this problem, as I'm not an internal obviously. But I know they aren't totally unaware, as they have taken steps over the last year to improve on that field. Still, the "progress" I see is not what I would expect from someone who understands the problem. So I guess they either didn't realize the extent of the issue, have other priorities, or they simply don't have the resources/knowh how to deal with it.

And no, I'm not talking about dumbing down the game. I'm talking about accesssibility. Currently a newbie has basically no chance to get to the fun part without walking through weeks, maybe months of pain, and even then it's almost never really awesome, unless you're an Awesome pilot.
This has made the game a place where only the most loyal (aka hardcoe) community members can motivate themselves enough to still play it. Because they see the potential, and they have a thick enough skin to cope with the problems. And that results in a game where the amount of "low and average skilled" players is so low that every newbie gets crushed over and over again, resulting in even more frustration. And no, that's no fun at all. I don't like 0-12, and I don't like 12-0 either. Both feels like a waste of time.

Now imagine we keep all the cool stuff like roboty and lasers and jump jets, but make this game actually fun for everyone - everyone who is into stompy robots at least.
Imagine a game that would let you play with 1-2 clicks. Currently I need 10 clicks to play a game if I need to reload a consumable item. If I know exactly where and in what order I need to click the totally unintuitive interface, that is. 10 clicks!!!
Imagine a game where all you need to do to play with your friend is a rightclick.
Imagine a game where interface elements tell you what they do by giving you tooltips when you hover over them.
Imagine a game where building a mech, wich is half the game as every mech warrior will assure you, was simple and not confusing at all.
Imagine a game where you would find things, instead of searching for them for several minutes and then still not finding them.
Now that would be a game worth my time.

And do you know what it needs? One guy. Yes that's all, one interface designer half-time, and one developer who knows the system half-time. Once you got someone who understands design principles, you can turn around the whole thing in weeks.

*sigh*
Once I got this other project finished, I should probably contact PGI and offer my help, since this forum rambling isn't leading anywhere...

[o0Marduk0o]

Denolven, on 04 April 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

You probably didn't realize how important this sentence is. This is the very reason why MWO is alot more deserted than it should be. Yes, parts of the game are fun. But there are so many unfun parts that everytime I play it I'm like "oh man why does this have to be so damn annoying?"

The keyword here is frustration. A little frustration here, a little frustration there, and suddenly your customer walks away. If your product feels like it's punishing the user for using it, then people won't use it, it's that simple. And it's one of the game's major issues. Well, at least that's what I always say, not that anyone cares about my mumbling...

But in PVP someone has to lose. This is the reason why pvp oriented MMOs are very niche compared to MMOs with huge pve content. People don't like to lose but this is how pvp works. As long as your W/L is stable in the long run, the MM works fine. You can increase W/L by running in coordinated groups.
If you feel frustration when dying/losing, then pvp is wrong for you. I think many older Mechwarrior players only experienced the singleplayer campaign in earlier titles which are just pve.

[Josef Koba]

To answer your question, yes, this game is fun for me and my group. It has been since day one when a buddy of mine and I got hooked on it and it remains so and will no doubt remain so for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to say that I have agreed with or welcomed every change or decision made by PGI, but we've played through them all and have had a good time doing so.

[Jody Von Jedi]

To the OP and Richie B:

How many matches have you played? Reason I ask is, your ELO starts out at the middle of the curve. If you're loosing, your ELO will drop and then you'll start to climb back up as you improve.

[Onyxian]

o0Marduk0o, on 04 April 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

But in PVP someone has to lose. This is the reason why pvp oriented MMOs are very niche compared to MMOs with huge pve content. People don't like to lose but this is how pvp works. As long as your W/L is stable in the long run, the MM works fine. You can increase W/L by running in coordinated groups.
If you feel frustration when dying/losing, then pvp is wrong for you. I think many older Mechwarrior players only experienced the singleplayer campaign in earlier titles which are just pve.

I don't mind losing as much as I am getting tired of getting rolled over like a bug. I just want to be in a game with players at my very low skill level. But at the moment, it seems like. Every. Single. Game. My opponents are far far far superior to me and my team. My match scores are usually around 10. I get it. I suck. Often about 6 players on my team have scores < 25, while the other teams lowest scores are around 50. How is that fair? I guess that's just naive of me.

[Modo44]

I like MWO for jumping into a mech and blowing shit up for fun. I also like to tinker in the mechlab. If you expect close matches or any kind of story, walk away or join a team (or at least play with a group to easier anticipate friendly reactions without talking). Things are improving, but very slowly.

[Onyxian]

Jody Von Jedi, on 04 April 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

To the OP and Richie B:

How many matches have you played? Reason I ask is, your ELO starts out at the middle of the curve. If you're loosing, your ELO will drop and then you'll start to climb back up as you improve.

That's just an insanely stupid model. Force new players to endure getting the crap beaten outta them, until their score lowers enough that they're in the low bracket where they belong. Why in the world would they NOT START NEW PLAYERS IN THE LOWEST BRACKET?

Sorry, I've ranted far more than I intended. I made the false assumption that since every match I've been in has been a stomp that every match is a stomp and was curious if that was fun for the better players.

[Swinebeast]

I'm a newbie, its tough, tho not as big a learning curve as some other sims (its sort of a sim).

My frustration is easing off now after around 30 matches, starting to claw back up from 0.45.
Plus I have been on the winning team about one third less than on the losing team, this is slowly changing also, so not all matches are a roll over.

Things that helped me was:
1. Finding a popular mech/builds as a baseline, it stoped the frustration of "is it me or my loadout?"

2. Upgrading movement was a huge thing for me in my jager, being able to pop out from cover, shoot and duck back in quickly enough before wearing a Gauss round to the face dropped the frustration level way down.

3. Increase sensor range, I pack a beagle and will do until I can afford the two sensor upgrades, while you still have to be on your toes for ECM, it helped heaps in getting a better picture of the battle field and knowing where I was getting engaged from or about to get flanked. Stopped a lot of surprises.

These things 3 things helped me a lot in survivability and lowering the noob frustration.

Edited by Swinebeast, 04 April 2014 - 07:49 AM.

[HighTest]

Onyxian, on 04 April 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

I don't mind losing as much as I am getting tired of getting rolled over like a bug. I just want to be in a game with players at my very low skill level. But at the moment, it seems like. Every. Single. Game. My opponents are far far far superior to me and my team. My match scores are usually around 10. I get it. I suck. Often about 6 players on my team have scores < 25, while the other teams lowest scores are around 50. How is that fair? I guess that's just naive of me.

Like Jody Von Jedi stated, your ELO starts out in the middle of the curve. So you're pretty much thrown to the wolves as a new player.

I know there have been discussions about this with PGI in past threads. I have no idea where it is now. I think they said that they were planning on modifying this, but things don't always move too fast in this regard, so that doesn't really help you. I know I posted some suggestions/comments about this months ago.

So, as I see it, your options are:

1. Quit - but that's no fun, especially if you love big stompy robots like many of us. Besides, nothing is more satisfying than watching the sparks fly and body pieces come off your target, which most FPSes can't offer.

2. Suck up a pile of initial losses until you get to a lower ELO bracket. But that kind of sucks too, since that ultimately mixes people that are new, and trying to get better, with people that just plain aren't very good or even outright trolling, or

3. Join a group. Get people to help you with your skills and to cover your back, and at least then while you're working on getting better, they can help with your survivability and win/loss ratio.

Personally, I'm quite looking forward to the release of private matches. I have a bunch of teammates that I can't wait to drop with so that we can work on individual piloting skills and group strategy, without having to face an enemy team that simply wants to annihilate us as quickly as possible. I think that will help our newer players immensely. But until we get there, I think the three options above are, sadly, pretty much it for now.

** edit - spelling

Edited by HighTest, 04 April 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[Voivode]

I have good news OP!

You, too, can be part of the "cool kids" group! For the small price of three minutes on Google, you can find teammates to drop with who will do more than cower around Atlas' waiting for death!

Don't know where to start? Check out FWLM. But hurry!!! Drop slots are unlimited!!!!!

****WARNING: Dropping in four man teams in no way guarantees you will not get ROFLstomped 12-0, some teammates are annoying and you will need to mute their mics, and dropping in groups may cause cynicism towards pugs****



Alright, sorry for the sarcasm, I couldn't resist. Plenty of people have suggested joining a group. There are lots of casual players that do. The game becomes much more enjoyable when you have friends to drop with. That said, there will still be stretches where you can't win a match to save your life. It happens, it is a multiplayer environment after all, so consistency of gameplay is just about impossible to guarantee. Stick with it. This game is seriously fun, but it can be seriously frustrating. Just comes with the territory.

Edited by Voivode, 04 April 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[Denolven]

o0Marduk0o, on 04 April 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

But in PVP someone has to lose.

That's not the problem. The problem is throwing a newbie into a lion cage and let him die before he has a chance to become a gladiator.
(Plus all the interface stuff that he didn't mention but still adds insane amounts of frustration)

Onyxian, on 04 April 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

I don't mind losing as much as I am getting tired of getting rolled over like a bug. I just want to be in a game with players at my very low skill level. But at the moment, it seems like. Every. Single. Game. My opponents are far far far superior to me and my team. My match scores are usually around 10. I get it. I suck. Often about 6 players on my team have scores < 25, while the other teams lowest scores are around 50. How is that fair? I guess that's just naive of me.

No don't worry, you are perfectly fine. Some people will tell you to "learn to play" or whatever, but don't let them trick you into thinking that you are the problem. Because you aren't. You are just new, but the game shouldn't punish you for that. Right now it does, and it does an incredibly good job at that, unfortunately.

I remember my newbie days very well. Those numbers are very familiar to me. But here is the thing:
This game a very niche right now. There simply aren't that many new players around to play with in an equal level. Most leave due to the high level of frustration, before they even start to see the real game. So the question is: are you willing to walk through the desert to get a chance to see the promised land? Nobody here will judge you if you say no - that's what most people do after all.
I won't promise you that WMO will be alot of fun. But I do promise you that those numbers will climb up even without training, if you stick to the game. All you need is enough endurance, or maybe stubbornness, and play with open eyes. Once you see why you get roflstomped, and once you learned how to not get roflstomped, you will see the fun part of it.

Playing with friends or with a senior player does two things:
1. At least you're not walking through the desert alone. Might as well have some fun together, right? Wouldn't be the first time I see an all-flamer mech going kamikaze
2. you can learn tricks from a more experienced player. Look, you already got offers in this topic, and it's not even the recruiting section. Learning from a senior is ALOT faster and more fun than learning all by yourself or from books alone. Again, nobody will judge you if you say no. But don't forget, you are welcome at most places.

Just for comparison: during my first 200 or so games my win/lose ratio was around 0.2, and dealing a triple digit amount of damage was quite the big event. I still suck now, but the difference is that I understand enough of the game to be usefull and have some fun. If I lose now, there's a good chance I did some 200+ damage before and hopefully sold myself for a high price. And I never did a single training session, just went with the flow and kept my sanity by losing with friends.

Edited by Denolven, 04 April 2014 - 08:13 AM.

[richie b]

Jody Von Jedi, on 04 April 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

To the OP and Richie B:

How many matches have you played? Reason I ask is, your ELO starts out at the middle of the curve. If you're loosing, your ELO will drop and then you'll start to climb back up as you improve.

For real? The matchmaking algorithim assumes that newbies are moderately skilled already? That's not going to lead to problems at all... Especially in a moderately complex PvP game!
I had 12 reasonable games where I felt I learnt something, then the next 15 have been awful. There was a complete switch once I got my first mech.
HighTest, social gaming/groups aren't practicable just now for a variety of reasons, so, I guess, I have a choice between masochism and quitting. Yay!
You'll understand if I might not be spending much time and/or money here, I trust. As a veteran of a few PvP MMos, that's a real shame...

[Onyxian]

Voivode, on 04 April 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

I have good news OP!

You, too, can be part of the &quot;cool kids&quot; group! For the small price of three minutes on Google, you can find teammates to drop with who will do more than cower around Atlas' waiting for death!

Don't know where to start? Check out FWLM. But hurry!!! Drop slots are unlimited!!!!!

****WARNING: Dropping in four man teams in no way guarantees you will not get ROFLstomped 12-0, some teammates are annoying and you will need to mute their mics, and dropping in groups may cause cynicism towards pugs****

Your post is the first thing about this game that has actually made me smile. Thank you!

As far as joining a guild/clan/group... my experience in MMOs has generally been that guilds want power gamer type members, which I am not, not even remotely. Too much RL. I've only been playing a week or so, and frankly am embarrassed how bad I am. So, I haven't really looked for one yet or asked, thought I'd try and improve myself beforehand. But as it stands, I won't make it to the improvement, because I'm close to rage-uninstalling.

Edited by Onyxian, 24 August 2014 - 05:06 PM.

[Voivode]

richie b, on 04 April 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

For real? The matchmaking algorithim assumes that newbies are moderately skilled already? That's not going to lead to problems at all... Especially in a moderately complex PvP game!
I had 12 reasonable games where I felt I learnt something, then the next 15 have been awful. There was a complete switch once I got my first mech.
HighTest, social gaming/groups aren't practicable just now for a variety of reasons, so, I guess, I have a choice between masochism and quitting. Yay!
You'll understand if I might not be spending much time and/or money here, I trust. As a veteran of a few PvP MMos, that's a real shame...

Yeah, I think they want to separate newer players but the player base just isn't big enough. This isn't a AAA title made by a big developer, so unfortunately you have to deal with a lot of roughness. I personally have stuck with this game and passed up on a lot of AAA titles because, despite the roughness, this game is really fun. If you're having trouble you're welcome to friend me in game or on this site and I can help you out.

Even as a player who has dropped mostly in a premade team, sometimes I get stretches where I can't get a decent match to save my life. It happens. But you also get stretches where every match is a knock down, drag out fight that comes down to the last few mechs alive. Those matches are what I play for!

For real, if you want a little help, just drop me a line. I'd be more than happy to!

[Swinebeast]

It gets better the more you learn, im creeping my stats back after 30 matches, some games have been rollovers, some down to the last mech or down to the last cap points, have been some real nail-biting moments for me.
Team Losses have been a third more than wins but that's coming back the more work im doing for the team.
Hang in there man.

[Onyxian]

richie b, on 04 April 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

For real? The matchmaking algorithim assumes that newbies are moderately skilled already? That's not going to lead to problems at all... Especially in a moderately complex PvP game!
I had 12 reasonable games where I felt I learnt something, then the next 15 have been awful. There was a complete switch once I got my first mech.
HighTest, social gaming/groups aren't practicable just now for a variety of reasons, so, I guess, I have a choice between masochism and quitting. Yay!
You'll understand if I might not be spending much time and/or money here, I trust. As a veteran of a few PvP MMos, that's a real shame...

Ditto. I was soso during my cadet matches. Once I got my own Mech, I've been hilariously bad.