16 replies to this topic

[Klarance]

Pretty simple question, Are 12 man premades in the same bucket as pugs with an assortment of smaller or groups?

The new launch module seems to imply that the maximum number of grouped players in public play is 4 per side in a match. Do i have that about right?

Thanks
Klarance

[TercieI]

Right now, it's possible to have multiple groups on each side in PUGs, but only groups of 2-4. 12-man is entirely separate.

[Klarance]

Perfect!

Thank you.

I think in the early stages of feeling obliterated I had wrongly thought that "This must be a premade!"

After playing for a while now I changed that thought to "This game is all about momentum"

Klarance

[Koniving]

Once a team loses 4 players, the team with more players will begin to gain confidence and move in swiftly annihilating the other team.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Koniving, on 04 April 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

Once a team loses 4 players, the team with more players will begin to gain confidence and move in swiftly annihilating the other team.

that is why it is crucial to rally your team.

[IraqiWalker]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 April 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

that is why it is crucial to rally your team.

Absolutely I've lost track of how many times we had games flip at the last second because our team got obliterated early, but managed to regroup and focus fire. Also, learn to abuse your terrain. If you can funnel your enemies into terrain that eliminates their advantage in numbers (city-scape if you have mediums and lights and are outnumbered. Ambush tactics using buildings are nasty and very effective with the proper squirrel bait).

Also, don't wait for a shot to be called, sometimes you have to call the shot, however if you have a 4 man on your team still alive and are not idiots/scrap buckets, and they make a call, try and work with them. Having 4 mechs organized and coordinated is great, having 5-8 organized and coordinated is amazing.

[LauLiao]

IraqiWalker, on 05 April 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Absolutely I've lost track of how many times we had games flip at the last second because our team got obliterated early, but managed to regroup and focus fire.

Yup. A LOT of the time the first few deaths (especially when they come quickly) are players who are so inexperienced or just plain bad that they wouldn't have contributed in any significant way if they had survived anyway, so don't give up too early.

[Darth Futuza]

Koniving, on 04 April 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

Once a team loses 4 players, the team with more players will begin to gain confidence and move in swiftly annihilating the other team.

Its funny how close to real warfare MWO can be...

[Koniving]

Darth Futuza, on 05 April 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

Its funny how close to real warfare MWO can be...

What's funny is when one side decides to go on the defensive; some of the fighters lack discipline, can't stand the waiting and so they rush out into certain death. The chain reaction screws the rest of the team and they all get annihilated.

The foolish actions of a few can get everyone killed.

What's sad is that sometimes it's the ones who refuse to act that get everyone killed.

[PhoenixFire55]

Koniving, on 04 April 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

Once a team loses 4 players, the team with more players will begin to gain confidence and move in swiftly annihilating the other team.

Meh. Came back to 12-11 from 0-6 just today. Biggest premade on our side was 2-man. Landslides mean one and only one thing - one team is much better than the other, which in turn means poor MM.

[Koniving]

I honestly find that it's usually the premades that fall first or otherwise cost the victories; they have absolutely no interest in helping the main group and act on their own at their own accord regardless of the benefit or cost to the team.

[BLOOD WOLF]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 April 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Meh. Came back to 12-11 from 0-6 just today. Biggest premade on our side was 2-man. Landslides mean one and only one thing - one team is much better than the other, which in turn means poor MM.

that's not necessarily the matchmaker. The MM cannot determine the impact a player/group/team can have. Sometimes you just have individuals who can excel.

[Darth Futuza]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 April 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Meh. Came back to 12-11 from 0-6 just today. Biggest premade on our side was 2-man. Landslides mean one and only one thing - one team is much better than the other, which in turn means poor MM.

I find its more about whether or not your team has a coherent plan everyone is sticking too. Even if your team can't aim, this'll still pull you through. Unless of course the other team has a plan too.

[no one]

Koniving, on 05 April 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

I honestly find that it's usually the premades that fall first or otherwise cost the victories; they have absolutely no interest in helping the main group and act on their own at their own accord regardless of the benefit or cost to the team.

I find small premades tend to cover for each-other better, but neglect the rest of the team more than people who are used to PUGing. Also, nothing, and I mean NOTHING will convince a person that PUGs are full of hugbox escapees faster than piloting a slow assault 'Mech. I think it's almost an accepted fact in PUGs that you'll take a 'Mech fast enough to let you dictate your engagement range. PUG fights tend to train pilots to capitalize on mobility, picking targets of opportunity and scattering in the face of superior numbers rather than teams that reinforce defensive positions and back up their teammates. There's validity in both approaches but they don't really synergize when there's no integrated coms in MWO. No VOIP, not even a hot-keyed lance order list like you had in MW3.

Edited by no one, 05 April 2014 - 07:23 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

no one, on 05 April 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

No VOIP, not even a hot-keyed lance order list like you had in MW3.

That would be nice to have, although it's still gonna be gimped and annoying by the fact that you will always have a douche player in your lance (well, almost always{60%}.) I would love to see that though.

One of the first thing I was taught in HHoD was "Stick with the pugs" our lances don't always split from the main group, unless we have a darn good reason to do so, we usually stick with the group, and even issue orders as often as possible to keep people busy. Such as sending the lights to deal with that skirmishing light that is obviously baiting our bigger mechs, while reigning our bigger mechs back. Moving other people around, and establishing some rudimentary formations (if a formation lasts more than 10 seconds it would be a miracle), but at least everyone is relatively where they need to be.

[PhoenixFire55]

BLOOD WOLF, on 05 April 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

that's not necessarily the matchmaker. The MM cannot determine the impact a player/group/team can have. Sometimes you just have individuals who can excel.

No, Koniving's point was that if for whatever reason (luck, bad decision etc.) one of the two equally matched teams lose a lance it'll always lose the game as well. So MM is actually not responsible for all the 12-0, 12-1 stampedes, other factors are in play. My point was that if teams are equally matched one can not lose a lance without killing anything in return and/or can't lose a game without killing at least 6-7 enemy mechs. 12-0, 12-1 only means one thing, teams aren't evenly matched.

[PhoenixFire55]

Darth Futuza, on 05 April 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

I find its more about whether or not your team has a coherent plan everyone is sticking too. Even if your team can't aim, this'll still pull you through. Unless of course the other team has a plan too.

We didn't have any plan. It was Forest Colonly, they had a lot of long range builds (3 LRM boats, 2-3 AC2-5 spammers, ERLL light etc.). I've said "don't go water they got LR builds in chat", but we still lost 4 people in water, then 2 more who were separated from us and pinned down during other team initial push inland. They only plan the last six of us had was to stick together in a corner where we were pinned down and kill as many as we can. I didn't expect it at all, but we were able to kill all 12. There were no planning, no premades, just good players understanding what they need to do even without communicating. Teams were evenly matched, for 6 "bad" players we had we got 6 "good" players, other team had 12 "avrerages", they were able to kill 6 "bad"s but not able to finish off all the "good"s even with 12 vs 6. If it would have been 6 "good"s vs 12 "good"s needless to say it would have been 12-0 or 12-1.