795 replies to this topic

[East Indy]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 06 April 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

The match maker isn't looking for 3 assaults 3 heavies 3 mediums 3 lights.

Correct, which, as Marduk points out, is an additional condition to meet for simultaneously assembled teams.

Actually, Marduk pointed out a lot of good things. You guys aren't thinking this one through. (Especially in terms of countermeasures. It's going to be very easy for PGI to passively cross-reference abuse of the system.)

[DeathlyEyes]

East Indy, on 06 April 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Correct, which, as Marduk points out, is an additional condition to meet for simultaneously assembled teams.

Actually, Marduk pointed out a lot of good things. You guys aren't thinking this one through. (Especially in terms of countermeasures. It's going to be very easy for PGI to passively cross-reference abuse of the system.)

PGI Paul never thinks things through, they he nerfed the Victor's maneuverability without realizing they he made it handle like an Atlas. If they he did realize it handled like that then even more shame on them.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 06 April 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Daekar]

Roadbeer, on 06 April 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

FTFY

Keep telling yourself that. Get more friends or abide by the rules. Cheating is cheating, no matter the reason you use to justify it to yourself.

[-Natural Selection-]

simple fact:

The more known conditions to the problem, the easier it is to find a solution.

Even rolling dice may have random outcomes, due to knowing the possible results you can determine the probability of what it will be.

[o0Marduk0o]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 06 April 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

All it's going to do is force people to use certain chassis. Who would want to use a Trebutche versus a Cataphract when the Cataphract gives you extra tonnage. Who would take a locust?

The tonnage of every single mech is matched, at least this is the goal. When you run a Cataphract, someone in the other team will drive a 70t mech as well. When you drive a Trebuchet, then someone will drive a mech with similar tonnage in the other team.
This allows players to drive what they want, because the enemy won't get a tonnage advantage.

[DeathlyEyes]

Daekar, on 06 April 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Keep telling yourself that. Get more friends or abide by the rules. Cheating is cheating, no matter the reason you use to justify it to yourself.

It's only cheating if it's against the rules, can you direct me to where it is said to be against the rules? I am just curious, I use to do it but don't anymore because I rarely have more than 4 people to play with because of the game's current condition.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 06 April 2014 - 09:50 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Daekar, on 06 April 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Keep telling yourself that. Get more friends or abide by the rules. Cheating is cheating, no matter the reason you use to justify it to yourself.

Hey, very few actually WANT to be "EVIL PREMADE BOOGEYMEN", I have plenty of friends, a whole House of friends. You obviously have very few to group with and haven't experienced the hurdles imposed on grouping with them over the 4 cap, and have never experienced the "joy" of putting together a 12 man.

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 06 April 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

It's only cheating if it's against the rules, can you direct me to where it is said to be against the rules? I am just curious, I use to do it but don't anymore since I rarely have more than 4 people to play with because of the game's current condition.

Excellent point, there is nothing I'm aware of that this is against the rules. Otherwise most of House Marik would have already been banned for our Marik Monday Madness chaos drops.

EDIT:

Correct me if I'm wrong, But I also believe that the FRR does something similar on Saturdays, and there was/is an event on COMSTAR NA where groups of 2 were encouraged to attempt to sync as well.

It's been a long running tradition among many organizations in an attempt to break the monotony of having nothing to really do in the game, as well as keep people together, despite the attempts of PGI to do just the opposite.

Edited by Roadbeer, 06 April 2014 - 10:06 AM.

[Raso]

Here's my question, then. Why would any self respecting, competitive, high Elo player do this? They're always going on and on and on about how they want that whole thrill of pushing it to the limit, or some such nonsense, so what joy or satisfaction could possibly be derived from spanking noobs like this?

Oh, right, because winning is all that matters to some people and fun is little more than a side effect of victory. Christ all mighty you play to win try-hards just like to suck the fun out of everything, don't you?

[DeathlyEyes]

Raso, on 06 April 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Here's my question, then. Why would any self respecting, competitive, high Elo player do this? They're always going on and on and on about how they want that whole thrill of pushing it to the limit, or some such nonsense, so what joy or satisfaction could possibly be derived from spanking noobs like this?

Oh, right, because winning is all that matters to some people and fun is little more than a side effect of victory. Christ all mighty you play to win try-hards just like to suck the fun out of everything, don't you?

Yes they would. Certain groups will and it will force others to do so as well if they want to remain competitive and able to play the game. Higher ELO players will likely be the victims to this more often than lower ELO players if the ELO system remains in tact.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 06 April 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Raso, on 06 April 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Here's my question, then. Why would any self respecting, competitive, high Elo player do this? They're always going on and on and on about how they want that whole thrill of pushing it to the limit, or some such nonsense, so what joy or satisfaction could possibly be derived from spanking noobs like this?

Oh, right, because winning is all that matters to some people and fun is little more than a side effect of victory. Christ all mighty you play to win try-hards just like to suck the fun out of everything, don't you?

Nope, and it's not the "High Elo" players that'll likely do this, they have the private match system to shake their Epeen at each other in, this is going to be the regular players who have more than 3 other friends online.

[Amsro]

East Indy, on 06 April 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Correct, which, as Marduk points out, is an additional condition to meet for simultaneously assembled teams.

Actually, Marduk pointed out a lot of good things. You guys aren't thinking this one through. (Especially in terms of countermeasures. It's going to be very easy for PGI to passively cross-reference abuse of the system.)

Daekar, on 06 April 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Keep telling yourself that. Get more friends or abide by the rules. Cheating is cheating, no matter the reason you use to justify it to yourself.

So playing with 5+ friends online is cheating.

How does this make sense on ANY level?.

12's can play no problem, 2-4 teams no issue, solos yep that is cool. 5+ oh no the world is crumbling!

Solo Que
Group Que

It is so simple that most people miss it.

[Amsro]

Raso, on 06 April 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Oh, right, because winning is all that matters to some people and fun is little more than a side effect of victory. Christ all mighty you play to win try-hards just like to suck the fun out of everything, don't you?

This is not the point behind the movement. Remove this silly idea from your head. We just want to play with friends 4+ and battle other groups of similar size.

If solo's don't want that, fine, give them there own que. This is ultimately what they and we want. No honorable pilot wants to gank the other team EVERY match just because matchmaker is trolling.

[Roland]

East Indy, on 06 April 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Correct, which, as Marduk points out, is an additional condition to meet for simultaneously assembled teams.

Actually, Marduk pointed out a lot of good things. You guys aren't thinking this one through. (Especially in terms of countermeasures. It's going to be very easy for PGI to passively cross-reference abuse of the system.)

No dude, it's you who aren't thinking it through.

You aren't realizing that the additional condition here is really just an additionally exposed parameter for the matchmaking algorithm. If you launch with certain mechs, you will then KNOW that the matchmaker is going to be looking for VERY SPECIFIC mechs to fill the rest of the team. If you provide it with those additional mechs, via solos dropping at the exact same time, then you dramatically increase the chances that they will be put on your team.

Of course it isn't fool-proof.. There COULD be other mechs of that same class, dropping at exactly the same time.. but based on current experience the playerbase is so small that if you sync drop like this there's probably going to be a fairly high chance that it'll pick your solo guys to fill those slots, since there aren't likely to be other folks dropping at exactly the same time.

Amsro, on 06 April 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

This is not the point behind the movement. Remove this silly idea from your head. We just want to play with friends 4+ and battle other groups of similar size.

If solo's don't want that, fine, give them there own que. This is ultimately what they and we want. No honorable pilot wants to gank the other team EVERY match just because matchmaker is trolling.

Exactly this.

There's really no reason at all for PGI not to have implemented a solo queue and an unrestricted queue ages ago, as it would have done infinitely more to appease the solo pugs, while also not driving away all of the grouped players.

[Amsro]

Roland, on 06 April 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

since there aren't likely to be other folks dropping at exactly the same time, in exactly the right tonnage mech, in exactly the right Elo bracket.

expanded

[Roland]

On some level I want to start playing again when they implement this, just to break the system and show them how terrible it is.

But on another level, I don't give a crap.

I suspect that by the point this is actually implemented, I'll have fully transitioned to star citizen.

[-Natural Selection-]

Raso, on 06 April 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Here's my question, then. Why would any self respecting, competitive, high Elo player do this? They're always going on and on and on about how they want that whole thrill of pushing it to the limit, or some such nonsense, so what joy or satisfaction could possibly be derived from spanking noobs like this?

Oh, right, because winning is all that matters to some people and fun is little more than a side effect of victory. Christ all mighty you play to win try-hards just like to suck the fun out of everything, don't you?

Because it was just about playing with friends of any group size and having fun. Now because people who hate to loose despite having damn near the same win/loss as people grouping the game is being gimped. They will cry to no end about how their performance issues are caused by other things (premades, hit boxes, weapon balance, ect)

Like it or not this is a MP game and if you are on comms or not you have to play as a team. If the people complaining are having issues now, it will not change not matter what is done.

I REPEAT the only thing that separates premades from solos is communication. If you choose to not use it, it is your damn fault and not ours or the games.

You are not trying to fix a problem, you are it.

[Ransack]

Daekar, on 06 April 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

And developers wonder why so many of us want single-player games... maybe they just need to meet more PLAYERS.

A Lot of us WANT you to have that solo game (queue). There are people fighting against measures that would keep people from trying to manipulate the system.

Go figure

[Ransack]

Rouken, on 06 April 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

I think any system will have some way it can be gamed. Overall I like the idea of 3/3/3/3 but you do raise a good point.

I'm not sure what you could do to 3/3/3/3 itself to prevent this but I can think of one way to mitigate it.

Lets change the 12 vs 12 queue (which will probably be pretty vacant after private matches arrive) into an "unlimited" queue. In this queue anything goes, any group size, any tonnage, any number of groups per team. Give us a launch option to be included into both queues and maybe an slight reward increase if we are going in lone wolf or in groups smaller than 4.

You may still have people gaming the 3/3/3/3 but I'd be willing to wager the majority of people who will do this are doing it to play in their groups, not to stomp pugs.

This. I want to play with what is left of my unit.

[-Natural Selection-]

What I wonder is...

If you do not want to play in a group. Do not want others to play as a group. Do not want to communicate. Do not want others to communicate. Do not want any randomness to the game.

Why... are you not fighting for a single player mode against AI? that is the game you are seeking

Edited by Dozier, 06 April 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Roland, on 06 April 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

If you launch with certain mechs, you will then KNOW that the matchmaker is going to be looking for VERY SPECIFIC mechs to fill the rest of the team. If you provide it with those additional mechs, via solos dropping at the exact same time

And there will be already players in the queue, for this Elo bracket, who still search for a match, so it will be highly unlikely, that all of them can enter the same match just by dropping the same time.
At the moment it is possible because there is no weight class limit/matching and the matchmaker takes everyone who comes in, when the Elo is right, which leads to games with huge tonnage differences.

Furthermore, the 3 solo of the earlier example have to match the same tonnage of enemy mechs which makes it even more difficult to join the same game of the premade lance.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 06 April 2014 - 10:55 AM.