58 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

wintersborn, on 08 April 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Answer = Separate queues.

Problem = PGI.

You would think with hundreds of customers saying the exact same thing it might be a higher priority for them but so far nada. I've given up trying. If they listen, cool. If they don't, no biggy either, play something else more often instead.

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 08 April 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

You would think with hundreds of customers saying the exact same thing it might be a higher priority for them but so far nada. I've given up trying. If they listen, cool. If they don't, no biggy either, play something else more often instead.

This must be the mythical "retention" you and PGI are talking about.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 April 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[Demuder]

wintersborn, on 08 April 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Answer = Separate queues.

Problem = PGI.

The answer to that is surprisingly simple, if PGI's stats of 84% solo drops vs 16% team drops are true. Of course they won't say 84%-16% of how many, which I suspect is a relatively small number.
If that is indeed the case, I am pretty confident that separate queues would mean an extremely long waiting time for the team drops. And long wait times is something PGI seems to despise -for whatever mystical reason known only to them- since they bring it up so often as a "no-no" when arguing against X change.
In fact, I can't think of any other valid reason separate queues are not implemented from day one - and please PGI, spare me the "fragmenting the playerbase" bs. As if the playerbase is not fragmented enough by solo droppers calling teamplayers "power hungry kiddies who want easy victories" and by teamplayers calling solo droppers "suicidal idiots who run off on their own".

[DeadlyNerd]

Actually, spread out spawns are fine. It's the mentality of PUGs that generates gravitational fields between each of them that's the problem. Games where the far away lance flanks usually end with a win.
When PUGs start to converge on each other, they create a blob that's neither spread out, nor turtled in and has absolutely no information about the whereabouts of the enemy, because they've been spending most of their mental capacity searching for one another.

[GalaxyBluestar]

mwhighlander, on 07 April 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

PGI is to blame why Pugs are setup to fail miserably...


-No in game Voice for them
-MM Bias to throw them in against long term veterans, regularly
-Next to ZERO social features to help them organize
-Next to ZERO in game features to organize (taking command and marking a random location on the map doesn't count)
-Besides a very rudimentary movement tutorial, ZERO game assets to teach them anything / cut their teeth
-Convoluted game mechanics with zero explanation like Ghost Heat™ and ECM functions (BAP isn't even listed to counter it)
-Etc.

pretty much all of this, the MM has good to excellent vets and then hopeless to clueless pugs, lobbed together. saddly what we need most is tutorials but we can't have them beyond the movement ones because we can't have a test missles and how to dodge missles tute etc because somebody changes values and mechanics randomly. no point setting up a tute for gauss and then suddenly you have to waste the day re deploying the new one with the new charge mechanic etc... well you could if you were a dev team of compatance to realise bads will always be bad, stop compiling a game of nerfs & buffs for derps and start compiling a game to turn derps into awear knowlagable and skilled warriors. MW titles of the past were well more advanced in controls and fighting options than this game yet many of us as 5-15 year old learned how to play them because the game's first and vital function was learning missions! more movement in relation to the speed and twist of a light compared to an assault. how ecm works and how it has a counter button and what that does, how bap works, what tag does. how the battle grid works, how to deploy consumables, how locks and weapon ranges work and everything heat does with tips of predicting the enemies fire learning the cooldown times so you can get the jump on them. how you construct a mech. none of that is available to the new player within the game and the forums is hours worth of trawlling to get that kind of info when a 30-45 mins worth of ingame directions would bring them up to speed. no more lrms in faces and medium laser out to 900M, no more getting lost they'd be able to understand the basics enough to be semi usefull backup mech sticking to a lance.

until PGI understands this is how you solve balance ie; get the majority of your playerbase up to ******* speed then you'll constantly have lopsided matches instead of the ones we love where it's trading blows and mech loseses until its down to one little lance or solo vs the other.

oh and the VOIP thing. saddly they tried C3 in 2012 and it's been dumped and forgotten, i can't recal anyone from pgi saying anything about in game VOIP so it looks like it'll never happen could we at least get some freaking hot keys which act like "attack my target" and highlights... very brightly... whom i've targeted to the team. instead of being stuck with people whom can't even hit the R button and there for whoever i light up becomes ignored, as they derp around a rock waiting for something seems to be the more appealing play to some people

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 09 April 2014 - 04:40 AM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

mwhighlander, on 07 April 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

PGI is to blame why Pugs are setup to fail miserably...


-No in game Voice for them
-MM Bias to throw them in against long term veterans, regularly
-Next to ZERO social features to help them organize
-Next to ZERO in game features to organize (taking command and marking a random location on the map doesn't count)
-Besides a very rudimentary movement tutorial, ZERO game assets to teach them anything / cut their teeth
-Convoluted game mechanics with zero explanation like Ghost Heat™ and ECM functions (BAP isn't even listed to counter it)
-Etc.

this is actually all good things from a business perspective. good players are bad for business, ideally you want the bad players to be just profitable enough that a premium account is justified, which is actually a part of why third person was implemented. It looks cool, but it also lacks a minimap, to ensure that bad players go "oh this is cool" and never, EVER look at a minimap, further ensuring them a loss and justifying a premium account. in all honestly, pgi needs to re-introduce repair costs even if profit gain remains the same, for an additional driving force through comparative logic towards purchases.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 09 April 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Sandpit]

Trauglodyte, on 08 April 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

All that I'm saying is that there is enough in this game that works against the team,

ding ding ding! now if you could just get PGI to understand that

[Lykaon]

Lucian Nostra, on 08 April 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

I do always get a chuckle when people seem to think VOIP is going to solve all issues and be some great equalizer vs dropping against some friends on TS.

Nobody listens to anyone with typed messages, why is that suddenly gonna change if it's spoken?

Sure you can get some of those "Atlas exposed right torso" off but in general your group is still gonna just mill about how they want to and shoot at what they want to shoot at.

Personally if VOIP does come in it better have a tick to shut it off because I don't wanna hear any of the yelling, name calling, l337 players KDR, how much sex you had with my mom, your shitty hip hop music, smokers coughing, 10 year old squeeky voiced players crying about how much of a noob the guy on the other team is because he killed you with ACs/PPCS or LRMs, as no real player with skill needs.

Oh there will always be "those" players.No intergrated VOIP will change this.

But,add in the grouping tools and prelaunch lobbies and we now have the tools to weed out "those" players.

Form a group and fill it up,you now have a group chat channel in a prelaunch lobby,If say "Kevin" is a nitwit kick him,add him to the block list and pick up a new player.

After a while you will have a friends list full of cool players who do know how to "teamwork" and an ignore list full of "Kevins" you never need to deal with on your team again.

The only players who can possibly be opposed to this are either highly impatient (can't cure that) or "Kevins."

Edited by Lykaon, 10 April 2014 - 03:39 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

im not opposed to voip I just don't see it as some magical cure all to stop the PUG stomps because the groups are on voice coms. Random people are still random people. even if they're not jackwagons you damn well know 9 out of 12 players don't care what you have to say because simply put.. they don't know you and we as humans don't tend to take advice or orders or whatever from people we have no idea who they are
.

Also the situation you hypothesize is not pug dropping, that is forming a premade albeit through a different system.

My response was about solo dropping into a game and using voip to communicate

edit: can't quote for some reason..

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 10 April 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 08 April 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

You would think with hundreds of customers saying the exact same thing it might be a higher priority for them but so far nada. I've given up trying. If they listen, cool. If they don't, no biggy either, play something else more often instead.

Hundreds of customers... of 580,000 (understood there are Alts in this #... I have 3), I am sorry to say that statistically hundreds of a half million players is only a drop in the bucket.

[Magna Canus]

Bobzilla, on 08 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Why don't all the negative things you mention ever happen on TS? Take that reason and apply it when creating in game voip. There, your whole rant is pointless, regardless of set reason.

To be fair here, and yes I am in favor of VOIP (with mute option) before that becomes a point, the people you talk with on TS are people you know and have actively decided you can handle. If the above were to happen in TS the solution is easy, kick them out, problem solved.

With a dozen random strangers, who probably wont be seeing each other in game anytime again soon, that anonymity can embolden them to act like a jack-a$$. You tend to be on your better behavior when the people you are talking to are those you know.

[M T]

Honestly, no matter what you throw on them, some pugs will always suck and never improve. They will never master torso twist, aiming, etc.

Thats why PGI introduced Streak SRMs and LRMs, and now to help out our fellow puggies even more they buffed em up!

How amazing is that? someone who cant aim can now just sit back and lrm people to death without much skill involved! (ok positioning a bit i guess, half the time its not critical)
its also a good outcome for ppl with low FPS right? I think i will ask PGI for a Super Epic Autocannon which can shoot through walls, this will help the people like me who still run a 486dx

Anyway the match maker works shit, 12-1 matches are more common then ever, both sides.

Edited by Marctraider, 10 April 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[Targaryen X]

I agree with OP.
Sure adding VOIP will not suddenly turn crap players into gauss slinging geniuses but it will definitely help organize and give guidance to those who want it. At least it is something, whereas right now we have nothing really useful.
As to the chat kiddie worries (which I have never encountered in any game Ive played but ymmv), just implement a squelch feature.

[Solahma]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

Hundreds of customers... of 580,000

geez, I see lot of the same 580,000 people everyday...
Wonder what ELO bracket that must be...

Lucian Nostra, on 10 April 2014 - 03:58 AM, said:

im not opposed to voip I just don't see it as some magical cure all to stop the PUG stomps because the groups are on voice coms. Random people are still random people.

True, but I think Insurgency could be used as an example where it does work, very well in-fact. I couldn't imagine playing without it, it would suck.

[Demuder]

Marctraider, on 10 April 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

Honestly, no matter what you throw on them, some pugs will always suck and never improve. They will never master torso twist, aiming, etc.

Thats why PGI introduced Streak SRMs and LRMs, and now to help out our fellow puggies even more they buffed em up!.

Have you ever given any thought at what is actually "thrown on" those "puggies" ? In fact they are not even "puggies" because that would imply that they were being "Picked Up" by someone, while in fact, they are picked upon, at best.

Maybe, being a founder, you started playing the game when everyone was running around in their trial and stock mechs and you all built up your mechs at the same time. Someone who just starts playing, enters the game in a trial or stock mech that has no chance against anyone that has already sunk 15mil C-Bills in their mech, torso twisting or not. And that is largely due to PGI's incompetence to create an environment even remotely resembling anything Battletech, or at least much more so than the "puggie's" incompetence or their low computer specs. Sure, those "puggies" will grind their way to a good mech and will probably drop a decent amount of real cash to get there faster, but will they have learned on the way there ?

Even more so, a solo player in their pimped-out assault that meets a premade of 4 assaults is certainly at a disadvantage. But a solo player in their assault that meets a premade of 4 assaults that boat 60 points of frontloaded pinpoint damage each, is at something more than a disdvantage, wouldn't you agree ? The funny thing is, that the solo player will die so fast they won't even know they were up against a premade.

The reason a lot of matches end up 12-0 is not because the idiot puggies are at the mercy of the uber team players, it's because a 4xAC5 CTF-4X can chew through 7 other mechs without even being touched in 5 minutes.

Team playing against solo playing is a very big advantage. And it should be. But the reason it is a problem is that it simply accentuates the grave imbalances that already exist in the game. A "puggie" can boat LRMs and suddenly do easy damage, can you imagine what a premade with 2 LRM boats and 2 spotters can do ? Every idiotic weapon imbalance PGI has introduced because of the "puggies whining" (according to your logic) has been thrown back that their faces ten times over by the team players. So please, don't go around blaming the "pugs" for crying bloody murder.

[Joseph Mallan]

Solahma, on 10 April 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

geez, I see lot of the same 580,000 people everyday...
Wonder what ELO bracket that must be...


True, but I think Insurgency could be used as an example where it does work, very well in-fact. I couldn't imagine playing without it, it would suck.

The middle?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 April 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Solahma]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

The middle?

My favorite part

[tucsonspeed6]

wintersborn, on 08 April 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Answer = Separate queues.

Problem = PGI.

The answer is always split queues. This community wants split queues for PUGs, 1PV only, no ghost heat, cone of fire, TT armor values, stock mechs, nerfed PPCs, nerfed LRMS, nerfed ACs, buffed Gauss, nerfed jump jets, 8v8, Clans v IS, Collisions aka Dragon Bowling League, tonnage caps, zelbrigan rules...

Then check out one of the dozen or so threads about 3-3-3-3 and how every match will have a maximum of 3 assaults in it, and it's "OH MY GOD! WHY DOESNT PGI THINK OF THE MATCHMAKING TIME?!?"

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

Hundreds of customers... of 580,000 (understood there are Alts in this #... I have 3), I am sorry to say that statistically hundreds of a half million players is only a drop in the bucket.

Except that I just said hundreds so I wouldn't get the "citation needed" crowd in a tizzy. That's also just referring to the ones that bother posting on it here on the forums. I didn't include anecdotal evidence of just people I talk to in units and such. It's more than hundreds, much more, if I had to guess.