48 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 08 April 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Why? Do you think the nature of artillery will change in 3050, and by "change" I mean "get weaker"? Frankly, I expect them to be even more dangerous a thousand years from now.

Also, I will just quote myself:

But you have to consider the fact that armor is better as well.

Modern tank guns can be classified as either AC2s, or "Rifles" which the light variant can't even damage mech armor.

My prefered change is 20 bombs at 20 damage. Same potential, no more instagibbing. Cooldown to 15 or 20 seconds.

[Mazzyplz]

Mystere, on 08 April 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

1. I would rather have new consumables that can be just as attractive as artillery:

• smoke rounds - for cover, for blinding the enemy
  
• airbursts - increased chance of damage on upper half of mech
  
• mines/cluster bombs - increased chance of damage on lower have of mech, area denial
  
• sticky incendiaries - massive heat induced on enemy

Nerfs need not always be the soluion. New toys/doggies are better in my book.



2. No comment until I actually see it.

3. Damage reduction on head?



4. I'd rather replace smoke with TAG. At least the enemy needs to get closer and have to "paint" the target for some time.

no thankyou, no more consumables.


i'd support the idea of a 2nd lrm ammo which raises the heat like flamers do at 1000m.
that would be great.


more consumables? no.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 08 April 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

But you have to consider the fact that armor is better as well.

Which in why in 3050, Mechs can get killed instantly by being head shot, instead of being instantly vaporized. Of course, I am assuming no 3050 equivalent of the Atomic Annie are involved.

Mcgral18, on 08 April 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Modern tank guns can be classified as either AC2s, or "Rifles" which the light variant can't even damage mech armor.

Say hello to the Demolisher.

Mcgral18, on 08 April 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

My prefered change is 20 bombs at 20 damage. Same potential, no more instagibbing. Cooldown to 15 or 20 seconds.

If it doesn't have a chance of killing you outright, it ain't artillery.

Edited by Mystere, 08 April 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 08 April 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Say hello to the Demolisher.

If you take a look at those specs, you clearly see an Autocannon 20, which fires a burst of dakka to deal 20 points of damage in 10 seconds.

I don't see anything about 20th/21st century tank cannons in there.

[Gas Guzzler]

Balanced or not, I don't like/use them because it doesn't seem like Mech combat to me.

For those of you who read Exodus Road, I'm pretty sure arty strikes ruined Trent's life. That alone is reason enough to hate them

[BillyM]

Jman5, on 08 April 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

I think the damage is fine and I like the concept of what air/arty does for the game. It punishes slow mechs that stand around. It helps break up defensible positions and encourages mobility over trench warfare and hill humping.

That said, I think there are several ways to nerf air/arty without ruining it.

1. Restrict consumables to 1 slot per mech. Not only does this reduce the overall number of strikes, but it gives players an opportunity to use the weapon modules without fear of sacrificing damage numbers.

2. Increase the global cooldown. Cooldown starts the moment the smoke is laid. The cooldown should be 5-10 seconds longer to compensate. It also reduces the multi-strike barrages where the strikes just seem to come in one after another before you can clear out.

3. Make strike damage to cockpits a fraction of what they are. PGI did this to LRMs because people were getting headshotted too easily. Strikes seem to be more or less effective at headshotting depending on the mech. It doesn't happen very often, so let's just do away with it so people don't get screwed by RNG headshots. It's not fun gameplay.

4. The smoke canister placement should have an actual projectile shoot out of the mech. This is critical in giving people a chance to spot artillery when someone aims it slightly behind you. Having the smoke suddenly appear out of nowhere right behind you is imbalanced IMO.

1,2,3,4

YES YES YES YES

...especially 4. Nothing worse than "magic space smoke" appearing at the feet of an assault because someone pointed a dot at their shoulder from 1000m and pressed once.

--billyM

[Ordellus]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 April 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

Have you seen the TT rules for Nukes???

So overpowered stupid is ok, as long as there is other also overpowered stupid?

[JohnnyWayne]

Haha I like how everyone posts videos of artillery and claims that the current one is the one how it is meant to be. I see way longer barages that the one we get in MWO, where as these videos don't say SHIT about how much damage they would do to a mech.

So the logical step would be to make them longer in a slightly bigger area, with more rounds and less damage per round (20 i'd say) so that they force the enemy to leave the area and also give them a chance to do so. You also shouldn't forget that we are in 3050 and that mechs have sensors and sattelites are observing the areas and deliver telemetry. So they would / should know when arty is launched and the area it will land in.

The way arti is used in mwo is a joke. They hit almost instantly and there is only a single shot. It is as if they are shit right outside of the border of the map. Realism? Not really. Not much fun to play with and skill is not enough to counter it in everything thats a heavy or assault.

There is a reason to it, that competetive players field them all the time especially in 12v12.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 09 April 2014 - 02:17 AM.

[Zero Neutral]

It would be nice if at least bitching betty would say, "Warning incoming artillery strike."

[Joseph Mallan]

Zero Neutral, on 09 April 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

It would be nice if at least bitching betty would say, "Warning incoming artillery strike."

Why does Betty Need to warn you of impending doom? We could use that tell tale whistle of incoming rounds though.

[JohnnyWayne]

Because you can't see the smoke most of the time. Its quite obvious why do you even ask, im 100% sure you knew the answer already, considering the amount of discucssions you stated in that everything should be random and op and like TT. Everything should be like TT (- not suited to be in a FPS) or realistical if you see it fit.

Good gameplay is not what you aim for, and if you want it that way this is not the game you are looking for.

Realism would mean here, that the changes I implied were set into place. I gave my reasons.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 09 April 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

JohnnyWayne, on 09 April 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Because you can't see the smoke most of the time. Its quite obvious why do you even ask, im 100% sure you knew the answer already, considering the amount of discucssions you stated in that everything should be random and op and like TT. Everything should be like TT (- not suited to be in a FPS) or realistical if you see it fit.

Good gameplay is not what you aim for, and if you want it that way this is not the game you are looking for.

Realism would mean here, that the changes I implied were set into place. I gave my reasons.

That isn't a good enough answer Mr Wayne. That's why we WANT Betty to tell us, it isn't a reason we need it! And not EVERYthing should be random, but random enough.

[Mystere]

JohnnyWayne, on 09 April 2014 - 02:13 AM, said:

Haha I like how everyone posts videos of artillery and claims that the current one is the one how it is meant to be. I see way longer barages that the one we get in MWO, where as these videos don't say SHIT about how much damage they would do to a mech.

So the logical step would be to make them longer in a slightly bigger area, with more rounds and less damage per round (20 i'd say) so that they force the enemy to leave the area and also give them a chance to do so. You also shouldn't forget that we are in 3050 and that mechs have sensors and sattelites are observing the areas and deliver telemetry. So they would / should know when arty is launched and the area it will land in.

The way arti is used in mwo is a joke. They hit almost instantly and there is only a single shot. It is as if they are shit right outside of the border of the map. Realism? Not really. Not much fun to play with and skill is not enough to counter it in everything thats a heavy or assault.

There is a reason to it, that competetive players field them all the time especially in 12v12.

At 20 damage, a direct hit to your undamaged cockpit -- no matter how small the chance may be -- will not kill you. That is not artillery as far as I am concerned.

Also, people complain about murder balls, hidden LRM boats, and massed poptarts. And yet, the one thing that can seriously hurt those -- artillery -- is also the same thing many of those same people complain about.

Finally, as I mentioned previously, the rate of shell impact should probably be slowed down to create an even bigger psychological effect. Right now, all 10 shells impact in around a second or two. Having 2 or 3 shells drop every second should be better.

[tayhimself]

SLDF LawDog, on 08 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

UH OH, Someone mad.............Can we get a "Kitty" Meme for him please.

What we are trying to say there twittle dee, is ARTY is and does strike that hard and FAST when called for "EFFECT" So in 3050 as YOU say, it should and WOULD be even MORE violent. Your "Righteousness" Just flew out the out the broken window.

<EDIT> STOP NERFING STUFFFFFFFF]

I didn't realize that the double digit IQ crowd wouldn't understand that this fantasy world about humanoid robots with live humans inside them is in itself a completely ridiculous and unrealistic notion. Humanoid forms are not the most technically viable for movement or physical profile considering the mechs can't crouch or pronate. I won't get into why having a pilot sitting in a cockpit seems ridiculous in 3050.

Again, we are in a gameplay balance forum of a fantasy world. We should try and balance the gameplay while trying to stay true to this world. Artillery strikes designed to make developers money rather than balance the game are not properly balanced. Lets not forget that they were quadrupled in damage from 10 -> 40.

In any case, I'm not sure what the personal attacks are for, they don't do your argument any favors and reflect poorly on your intelligence.

[topgun505]

I would say either the time between rounds in a volley landing needs to be slightly increased, and/or the cooldown between arty strikes needs to be increased slightly. Having the initial smoke round make at least SOME noise wouldn't be a bad thing either instead of the silent ninja we have now.

[Mystere]

topgun505, on 09 April 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I would say either the time between rounds in a volley landing needs to be slightly increased, and/or the cooldown between arty strikes needs to be increased slightly. Having the initial smoke round make at least SOME noise wouldn't be a bad thing either instead of the silent ninja we have now.

One of the suggestions I and others have offered is to replace the smoke with TAG.

Edited by Mystere, 09 April 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

tayhimself, on 09 April 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

I didn't realize that the double digit IQ crowd wouldn't understand that this fantasy world about humanoid robots with live humans inside them is in itself a completely ridiculous and unrealistic notion. Humanoid forms are not the most technically viable for movement or physical profile considering the mechs can't crouch or pronate. I won't get into why having a pilot sitting in a cockpit seems ridiculous in 3050.

Again, we are in a gameplay balance forum of a fantasy world. We should try and balance the gameplay while trying to stay true to this world. Artillery strikes designed to make developers money rather than balance the game are not properly balanced. Lets not forget that they were quadrupled in damage from 10 -> 40.

In any case, I'm not sure what the personal attacks are for, they don't do your argument any favors and reflect poorly on your intelligence.

Yes but balance for one is imbalance for another Tay. So who do we upset? The wimps(don't hurt me so much) or the bullies(Die Rebel scum)?

[Zero Neutral]

topgun505, on 09 April 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I would say either the time between rounds in a volley landing needs to be slightly increased, and/or the cooldown between arty strikes needs to be increased slightly. Having the initial smoke round make at least SOME noise wouldn't be a bad thing either instead of the silent ninja we have now.

It should sound like a whisper, "Shh, it will be over soon."

[Joseph Mallan]

Zero Neutral, on 09 April 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

It should sound like a whisper, "Shh, it will be over soon."

In a lil girl's sad voice for that creepy as sit effect.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 April 2014 - 09:41 AM.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Increase the length of time between uses of either one. You should only be able to fire one every minute.