9 replies to this topic

[Monkeystador]

behold the simplicity.... for each weapon fired where the target under the reticle is further out than optimal range a random cone of fire is added. The algorithm for converging the weapons perfectly is already there. It is not more than a check for range and then add a random value. It could even be the same value for all weapons.

[Kiiyor]

I disagree - I'm against anything that removes skill from the game in favour of random numbers.

Not because of the mechanic itself, but because Ranblor (the deity of random numbers) hates my guts.

[Monkeystador]

Only thing you got alot is ping.

No really, thats not an arguement. Thats a personal oppinion. In this case having randomness is not a bad thing. It is in line with: why do bullets suddenly do less damage after optimal range??? Same made up stuff.

All it does, it make long range deviate after optimal.

It is easy enough to add a precision modifier and give the gauss a high value. Honestly a bit of imprecision would do wonders for this game. The whole long range rifling with pinpoint accuracy is a joke and goes against the whole LosTech premise and is not really fun.

Edited by Monkeystador, 09 April 2014 - 02:05 AM.

[Koniving]

Originally this game had something called delayed convergence. What this added was a simple little skill.

Yes you could fire and possibly hit something. But you had to hold the target, let the aim calibrate, and then fire and sure you can continue to fire so long as you could hold the target. At the time that was harder because there was no arm lock.

The problem is delayed convergence was bad for high ping players -- it was server controlled.
Client-side convergence control would make it so that people could 'modify' it and make their convergence instant.

A cone of accuracy is a bit of randomness. Pushing through that is skill. However...

When is the last time you moved around in third person? Grab a Raven, Stalker, most 55 ton mechs, etc or even a Jagermech and simply go full speed in third person with the reticle pointed at something nearby.

See it bouncing with every step? That's because MWO draws a line from your cockpit to the target. As your cockpit moves, so does the line. Add a slight drag to arms to not be synched, allow horizontal movements when appropriate, and make it so that armlock isn't a perfect lock in position and what have we made?

We've made a skill based system that fires exactly where the crosshairs are no matter what! Now it's just a matter of getting the crosshair onto said target and timing the shot with your own mech's movements. The higher your speed the more your mech moves the less likely you are to hit exactly where you want; though 100% of the time you will always hit where the crosshair is. And if the timing is too difficult, slow down before making your big shot. Most vehicles reduce speed when firing to increase their accuracy anyway!

We just need third person's animation dependent drawn from cockpit crosshair put into first person with that freedom to move with the mech. Even simpler than that is to have the crosshair follow a 'headbob' or head movement that occurs because the player is moving. Headbobs are readily programmed into first person shooters it just needs to be switched on.

Edited by Koniving, 09 April 2014 - 02:26 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

A constant damage drop and decreasing precision per range would be indeed a better system.

Long range weapon would still be capable of hitting targets with minimal dispersion. If the ratio is chosen well - there shouldn't hardly be a difference when firing weapons at optimal range.

If the "dispersion" is fixed...for your Mech (you get it once - after modifing in Mechlab - than its fixed for this weapon system)
So you know - hell my Laser5 hit the low left 8 at 350m when I'm aiming for the 10.
While my Laser9 hit the bull at 600m when aiming for the bullseye.

There don't have to be any random number.... and hey there is random in the game since it very beginning:

• random Hit detection
  
• random critical hits
  
• random critical hits on components
  
• random if you critted ammo explode
  
• random random random - everywhere

The last thing that doesn't look random at first glance is the mouse aiming.... but in the end it doesn't really matter

[Monkeystador]

Random deviation for targets beyong the optimal range id say!!! That takes care of many things.

[Mekwarrior]

I like the random cone idea, for example if you are aiming at one small mech beyond optimal range you will be unlikely to hit it but if you are aiming at a group of mechs beyond optimal range that are clustered together you are much more likely, that way it takes skill to know when to use it and how to avoid it too.

Edited to reduce misunderstanding in post below of what I meant.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 09 April 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Monkeystador]

This is not about a general cone of fire. The weapons will all be precise up to optimal range. After that each weapon deviates randomly for each shot.

Snipping on optimal range is still 100% possible without any issues. And the deviation is not evne remotely big enough to hit several mechs.

It is just a slight adjustment. More likely that using a PPC and firing at a target at say 1000meters you have a chance that a straight aim to an atlas CT deviates as much as to one of the side torsos. Precision can be adjusted for each gun.
You could set the Gauss to very precise such it will still hit the CT of an Atlas on 1000meters if the shoot perfectly centered, but 1500meters it wont and will deviate to a ST, or up/down respectively.

How the random is implemented is another story. Could be a fixed deviation but randomise the direction. Or use a minimum deviation and randomise direction and addition to the deviation. There are many ways to achieve the deviation effect desired.

Edited by Monkeystador, 09 April 2014 - 03:48 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kiiyor, on 09 April 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

I disagree - I'm against anything that removes skill from the game in favour of random numbers.

Not because of the mechanic itself, but because Ranblor (the deity of random numbers) hates my guts.

No offense but what most consider skill in video games is not skill at all. I have shot weapons enough to know that MW:O accuracy is an insult. Heavy weapons are accurate within feet not microns. So removing random is removing a level of skill. Cause having to account for that randomness is a skill in and of itself.

[Mekwarrior]

Of course I am talking about the chance of hitting one of a group of mechs in a cone of fire beyond optimal range.

Maybe I didn't specifically state that but I thought it wasn't necessary because that's what this whole thread is about.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 09 April 2014 - 07:19 AM.