950 replies to this topic

[fleshwoundNPG]

Navid A1, on 11 April 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

upper leg part on that timber wolf should shrink in size a bit.

It's thigh/shin ratio is a little closer to 1:1 than it's lighter Catapult cousin. Even in the concept pics.

Edited by fleshwoundNPG, 11 April 2014 - 06:19 AM.

[PontifexX]

[CyclonerM]

[Sennin]

The concept art looked great but this...it looks like a bunch of reused game assets poorly kit bashed together. The upper arms and upper legs are hideously fat and look nothing like a mech that is as agile as this is supposed to be. It took you this long to half-ass an iconic 'mech like this into the game? I'm glad I held off on putting down hard earned money.

[Funky Bacon]

I think it looks really good. I'm kinda glad they didn't go with the same old design as every other game.
Plus the long legs will help a lot with avoiding shot-blocking rocks and terrain and the slimmer torso will better spread damage and keep your own shots nice and tight for that alpha strike and avoids spreading damage too much when you have to lead your target.

[o0Marduk0o]

Vermaxx, on 11 April 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

And the mech has hard points? What happened to the omni thing?

Nothing happened with them, the hardpoints are tied to omni pods. You can exchange the omni pods in all zones but the CT. Do you read the command chair post?

[Josef Koba]

The reflexive histrionics, name calling, and f-bomb dropping is probably not going to help in any meaningful way. No matter what PGI came up with in terms of the iconic Mad Cat's MWO presentation, tons of people were going to be unhappy. It was unavoidable and, frankly, what an uncomfortable situation to be in for the artists and modelers. Imagine doing what you felt was right in terms of presenting such an iconic mech in a modern video game, but knowing that half the community might virtually crucify you. These cats were probably super excited to release this screen shot, too. Bet they might not want to do that again.

That said, I'm...pleased to meet the Mad Cat. There are some improvements that could be made. Most of these have been noted in this going-on-24-page thread. Personally, I'd like to see more of the concept art for the Mad Cat/Timber Wolf. And then I'd like to see more screen shots from different angles. I'm sure this is coming at some point in the future. I do think the legs are a bit long compared to the body, but I want more evidence. What we can know for certain at this point, however, is that the leg spines seem to be missing. Can we have them? Also the toes of the Mad Cat are generally portrayed as long. These are stubby in the vein of the Cataphract. These are glaringly obvious discrepancies in the way the mech has been portrayed in any canon I've ever seen and should be rectified.

Does the mech have enough crouch? I do not know. But if not, there is precedence for rectifying such a thing. The Jager used to be squatter, if anyone remembers. It looked like it was struggling under the weight of its massive ballistics. Then, one day, it became taller and the knee bend was dramatically reduced. So I see no reason why the mech can't be fixed at some point if this is indeed an issue (and it appears to be).

I have no offered solution for the issue of RT/LT and LRM bins. I'm not sure if the game engine can support more hit boxes. If it can, then by all means; these need to have separate hit boxes. If not, then I'm concerned that any Mad Cat pilot is going to lose one or both torsos with terrifying speed. This, of course, means that the arm on that side is also gone. Since the side torso has substantially less armor than the CT, and this armor will be spread up into those ears, pilots are going to be walking around with half (or less) of their combat power within a short time. Sixty four points of armor (assuming that the armor is roughly the same as the 75 ton Orion (more like 44 depending on front/rear distribution)) will melt away FAST because these things are going to be like giant "Shoot Me" signs. But maybe that's the intent...

All in all, I'm excited to see these mechs come to the battlefield. It's impossible to please everyone, but hey...

[Cimarb]

DocBach, on 10 April 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

He did a data dump of his battle recorder over wideband comms, he didn't write a briefing. He got blown up, knocked out and woke up a bondsman.

It's fiction based upon fiction. Give it a break.

Drow, on 10 April 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

I am not sure how to feel really.

The design is obviously a Timber Wolf, but considering that every single other model in the game at the moment have never looked as good as they do in MWO... I just expected more..? I like it. It is evidently just not the gorgeous piece of clan metal that was expected, though.

I think it looks immensely better than 99% of the previous models. I don't want War of the World aliens, I want War Machines.

LORD ORION, on 11 April 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

"My targeting computer is in a state of confusion andkeeps switching between Marauder and Catapult signatures"

This better mean we are getting a Marauder...

The Marauder is a large part of the lore of Battletech, so it is going to be referenced often, but that doesn't to hangs the legal issues behind actually getting one in the game. It isn't happening, sadly, unless Harmony Good finally dies off.

fleshwoundNPG, on 11 April 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

The curse of foreshortening and perspective, yet again. It's funny that people didn't whine and moan about the Jester's legs...

[Ph30nix]

AWOL 01, on 10 April 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

I actually like the way this Timber Wolf looks... I never really liked the weird pipe arms they're always shown with. They just don't make very much sense. The blocky arms look like they could actually support the weapon pods and they help support the missile racks instead of those just hanging off the corners of the torso. The legs look fine to me and realistically speaking, longer legs would be an easy way to increase the speed because each stride would be longer. Plus it doesn't have clodhopper feet cause the toes aren't as large as they usually are. I'd say this is probably the most realistic representation of a Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) I've seen in a MechWarrior game. Definitely two thumbs up for PGI.

actualy it is only realistic assuming lower end techonology (as far as Battle Tech is concerened)

Bulkier bodies means the metals used in its construction are not as strong. The Clan Timberwolf had the skinnier arms and legs because they didnt NEED bulkier arms and legs to maintain the chassi so they are able to divert more tonnage to weapons and eqiupment.
Also there is far less to hit on the arms and legs making it even more diffitult to remove one.

look at the Timberwolf mark 2

i know its not a cannon pic of it but its fairly close and only one i coudl find large enough.
It is a 90 ton version of the Timberwolf and IT actually requires the thicker legs and more solid arm supports.

Also the Legs on the Timberwolf are VERY unique


see that spot circled (image taken from another source) while the image here isnt exactly how it is normally depicted that extra "nub" past the joint ISN'T just for show. It allows the Timberwolf a very unique Method of walking and standing.

During movement the pivot point extends allowing for as you say the much longer stride, but at slower speeds and while stationair that pivot point retracts giving the Timberwofl a much lower profile as well as giving it more stabalization.

Essentialy the Timberwolf is designed to "crouch" by default

Their version of the Timberwofl conveys NONE of these attributes. In fact it completely overlooks all of them and instead focuses on the "Someone put Arms on a Catapult" mentality (which is a very very very basic description of it)

So by that mentality The timberwolf is only 15 ton's heavier then the catapult with more weapons and a larger engine. Even with clan weight on LRM's and ferro/endo internals it wouldnt be able to afford the weight for the bulky arm/leg style.

[Cimarb]

Josef Koba, on 11 April 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

The reflexive histrionics, name calling, and f-bomb dropping is probably not going to help in any meaningful way. No matter what PGI came up with in terms of the iconic Mad Cat's MWO presentation, tons of people were going to be unhappy. It was unavoidable and, frankly, what an uncomfortable situation to be in for the artists and modelers. Imagine doing what you felt was right in terms of presenting such an iconic mech in a modern video game, but knowing that half the community might virtually crucify you. These cats were probably super excited to release this screen shot, too. Bet they might not want to do that again.

Exactly. And people wonder why PGI doesn't release more early screenshots....

[C E Dwyer]

I like the big target..

Catapult with added marauder arms meets robocop knees

[Longarme]

Good thing I've been saving my C-Bills. I'll take 3 please!

[RedDragon]

Wait... THAT is your Timber Wolf design?
Man am I glad that I didn't spend any money on those packs.
The mech designs were the only thing that was actually good about MWO, but the quality has suffered with the last releases or at best it has been inconsistent. But this? This is just an ugly abomination what should be an iconic mech.

[scx]

ugly legs , no good.

[Khalla]

I really like how the development on this has come along. The legs, however large they appear on first look, are proportioned just right IMO. Had to bust out my pre-resculpt Timber Wolf mini to compare the two. If you take into account the fact that this mech's original legs are those backward-canted "bird legs", which, if you were to fully extend them, would look a little too large (height-wise) when compared to the rest of the mech. Not to mention the fact that the original legs just seem a little too dinky for a mech of this weight class, role, and place in the BattleTech universe. I think PGI's on the right track bringing these old staples of BattleTech lore up to date for a new (and yes, us old farts also) generation of BT gamers.

[Ransack]

Masterrix, on 11 April 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

oh these whiners

I remeber, when the first Phoenix screenshots were released, the whiners were also shocked about some models

later, they recognized that it was only the perspective and camera angle

now it seems that the whiners are captured in an endless loop, starting from the beginning

some pictures of the MadCat are already showing that the legs "are not oversized" if u have a "normal camera angle and scaling"

I also don't know what "square boxes" the whiners are seeing on the screenshots that didnt exist on the concept art ... ???



for me, MadCat is sexy as it is

and I really give a sh*t on these fanmade low quality sketches about MadCat, some ppls are posting here

if these low quality sketches (my little sister can draw better) from "Sarna.net" and "fans" should be adopted 1:1 into the game, than some mechs would look ridiculous stupid.



.

The phoenix mechs are exactly why I did not get this. The Phoenix mechs are out of proportion which made me leery of these. Looks like I was right,

[RacerX]

I would like to see a plain Jane screenshot without all the fancy angles. As is this Timberwolf looks to need a diet to deal with those pork chop thighs.

[QuimMorius]

Would be funny if PGI continues with the load out specific looks of the mech and you run those without launchers and use only ballistics and energy weapons.

Did a quick mock up in mspaint just to get the idea of it:

Edited by QuimMorius, 11 April 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[CMetz]

I definitely wanted to take a night and sleep on this design before replying to this at all. Would I want to see the leg pivot changed and the toes changed a little bit? Yes. Those are key aspects of the Timberwolf.

That being said... The MW:O art department is yet to give us an ugly mech. They have even made some mechs look far superior to their original TRO artwork. (See: Jagermech, Trebuchet, Highlander, Wolverine)

There is no doubt in my mind that the clan mechs will all be excellent, because that is what this art department does.

Also, the missile boxes HAVE to be part of the side torso. Otherwise you'll be adding armor tonnage. Also, there are complaints about this art not being TRO exact. Well, take the missile boxes as part of the side torso, because that is TRO correct.

My advice: Get off the forums and go play the game. If the game isn't fun for you, then go play another game that is. Life is simple.

[AWOL 01]

Ph30nix, on 11 April 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

actualy it is only realistic assuming lower end techonology (as far as Battle Tech is concerened)

Bulkier bodies means the metals used in its construction are not as strong. The Clan Timberwolf had the skinnier arms and legs because they didnt NEED bulkier arms and legs to maintain the chassi so they are able to divert more tonnage to weapons and eqiupment.
Also there is far less to hit on the arms and legs making it even more diffitult to remove one.

look at the Timberwolf mark 2

i know its not a cannon pic of it but its fairly close and only one i coudl find large enough.
It is a 90 ton version of the Timberwolf and IT actually requires the thicker legs and more solid arm supports.

Also the Legs on the Timberwolf are VERY unique


see that spot circled (image taken from another source) while the image here isnt exactly how it is normally depicted that extra "nub" past the joint ISN'T just for show. It allows the Timberwolf a very unique Method of walking and standing.

During movement the pivot point extends allowing for as you say the much longer stride, but at slower speeds and while stationair that pivot point retracts giving the Timberwofl a much lower profile as well as giving it more stabalization.

Essentialy the Timberwolf is designed to "crouch" by default

Their version of the Timberwofl conveys NONE of these attributes. In fact it completely overlooks all of them and instead focuses on the "Someone put Arms on a Catapult" mentality (which is a very very very basic description of it)

So by that mentality The timberwolf is only 15 ton's heavier then the catapult with more weapons and a larger engine. Even with clan weight on LRM's and ferro/endo internals it wouldnt be able to afford the weight for the bulky arm/leg style.

I completely understand what your saying. I'm pretty familiar with the Battletech universe so I know how Clan Tech is superior to IS Tech. As an engineering student I just like to see a realistic representation of these awesome machines. That's why I've never liked the Japanese mecha that don't really make much sense.

But I digress. The first problem I have with the original Timber Wolf design is that, with that type of knee joint, there would be an enormous amount of sheer force on it. Even with more advanced tech, it would make more sense to put the mech's weight directly above the knee joint. And just because they have materials that can support the 60 or so tons of the torso and arms on that single point doesn't mean they would just to make it look a certain way. Clanners are smarter than that. They would go with a design that pushes the envelope in every single way. Plus, it could still utilize the extending leg design that you suggested. However, that design would add very minimal advantages to speed and height but add another system in the mech that could break down. Also, I have wondered about that design. Can you actually see the leg working in that way in any other MechWarrior/MechCommander games? I honestly have always thought that was what it was for but I can't remember if they actually showed the leg extending...

Finally, everyone needs to stop making such a big stink about how the "massive leg" are going to be such an "easy target." This is still going to be an incredible opponent on the battlefield. I'd like to see any of you go toe-to-toe with it in one of your Inner Sphere mechs. Everything was fine until someone commented on how long the legs are and now everyone's hopped on the "let's all hate the new Timber Wolf because it looks different" bandwagon. Why can't we all just enjoy this awesome game and stop complaining?

And that's all I have to say about that.