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Fix Quoting And Pasting Problems.

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#21 Roadbeer

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 03:01 PM

View PostDark DeLaurel, on 13 April 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:



Sounds like it started after one of the forum updates, if we know what the software powering it was I would stat up a dev board and test it out and see if it happens stock.

Or an IE update, they have a tendency to change the way they work from version to version that isn't always compatible...
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#22 Dark DeLaurel

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 03:20 PM

IE11 has actually been fairly consistent the past yea or so. That is why we are seeing an increase in usage, I still do use it to test out stuff and in the end tried to move to it full time just to give it a fair go. But not having my bookmarks sync across all my devices (ala Chrome) is a big hurdle.

#23 Kyle Polulak

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:47 PM

IE10-IE11 are not industry standard. Far from it; the only reason IE has any traction is because of the illegal bundling of the browser.

IE11 has changed the way their trident rendering engine handles HTML to the point were they have broken many of their own standards. They don't respect the box model they forced all web developers to use. It's a total mess.

The forums didn't break; IE broke. We will never support IE directly due to the inconsistencies in versions, rendering engines and standards compliance.

Google and Microsoft are compatible in terms of snooping on your browsing habits; so please don't spread misinformation that one browser is more evil than the other; the fact of the matter is a browser is increasingly a personal choice. I would recommend any other browser than IE to use this website.

#24 Dark DeLaurel

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:50 PM

View PostKyle Polulak, on 14 April 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

IE10-IE11 are not industry standard. Far from it; the only reason IE has any traction is because of the illegal bundling of the browser.


Actually you can't use this argument anymore as in the EU there is a popup letting people download something else other than IE. If you were talking IE6 and lower yes I would agree with the statement. In the rest of the world a lot of machines are getting setup with the other browsers (I know of quite a few boutique builders and stores that do this, including myself). We also wouldn't have seen the surge of people using Chrome, Opera, FireFox or Safari if people were not ditching their bundled version of IE.

View PostKyle Polulak, on 14 April 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

IE11 has changed the way their trident rendering engine handles HTML to the point were they have broken many of their own standards. They don't respect the box model they forced all web developers to use. It's a total mess.


Yes they are finally getting compliant so all these tricks that had to be done to make IE6/7 work are not needed for 10/11.

View PostKyle Polulak, on 14 April 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

The forums didn't break; IE broke. We will never support IE directly due to the inconsistencies in versions, rendering engines and standards compliance.


Stop supporting it directly and just code to the standards and do testing, if everything works great if not then start to troubleshoot the issue. I've done that for years in web dev and it hasn't failed me, if one browser or another wasn't giving the desired results I would use a js script to detect it and pop a window up informing them they should update/change browsers for a better experience. With CSS3 and HTML5 taking traction the past few years this methodology is still valid.

View PostKyle Polulak, on 14 April 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Google and Microsoft are compatible in terms of snooping on your browsing habits; so please don't spread misinformation that one browser is more evil than the other; the fact of the matter is a browser is increasingly a personal choice. I would recommend any other browser than IE to use this website.


Yes I will agree with this, anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves.

Edited by Dark DeLaurel, 14 April 2014 - 08:51 PM.


#25 Durant Carlyle

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:22 PM

View PostDark DeLaurel, on 14 April 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Actually you can't use this argument anymore as in the EU there is a popup letting people download something else other than IE. If you were talking IE6 and lower yes I would agree with the statement. In the rest of the world a lot of machines are getting setup with the other browsers (I know of quite a few boutique builders and stores that do this, including myself). We also wouldn't have seen the surge of people using Chrome, Opera, FireFox or Safari if people were not ditching their bundled version of IE.

What do you mean, the argument can't be used any more? The only reason IE is the most popular browser is that it has come bundled with Windows for so many years. As far as I know, it still cannot be removed completely (haven't tried it recently, so that might be wrong).

If Joe and Jane Public see two browser icons -- one for IE and one for any other browser -- which one are they going to choose? Yep, IE, because it's familiar. It's only when IE isn't an option (if an expert removes any shortcuts to it, for example) that they will use other browsers.

View PostDark DeLaurel, on 14 April 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Stop supporting it directly and just code to the standards and do testing, if everything works great if not then start to troubleshoot the issue. I've done that for years in web dev and it hasn't failed me, if one browser or another wasn't giving the desired results I would use a js script to detect it and pop a window up informing them they should update/change browsers for a better experience. With CSS3 and HTML5 taking traction the past few years this methodology is still valid.

See ... there's the problem right there. If you code a page, and it works perfectly in Chrome, Firefox, and Opera, but it doesn't work right in IE, then the problem isn't the code. That's what they've been doing for this forum, and IE's the only browser that consistently has problems.

#26 Kyle Polulak

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:13 PM

View PostDark DeLaurel, on 14 April 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Actually you can't use this argument anymore...


Actually I can, and will continue to, use this argument until IE is dead and no-longer used. People in groups are creatures of habit and since the entire world is not you; they are accustomed to the choices they've had since Microsoft bundled the browser regardless of the current state of Microsoft's Anti-Trust lawsuits.

#27 Shar Wolf

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:32 PM

View PostDark DeLaurel, on 14 April 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Actually you can't use this argument anymore as in the EU there is a popup letting people download something else other than IE.

Translation:

View PostDark DeLaurel, on 14 April 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Actually you can't use this argument anymore as where I live it is not a problem for some people- therefore it isn't a problem for anyone anywhere



:lol:

Edited by Shar Wolf, 16 April 2014 - 02:32 PM.


#28 Roadbeer

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:54 PM

View PostKyle Polulak, on 16 April 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:


Actually I can, and will continue to, use this argument until IE is dead and no-longer used. People in groups are creatures of habit and since the entire world is not you; they are accustomed to the choices they've had since Microsoft bundled the browser regardless of the current state of Microsoft's Anti-Trust lawsuits.


Does this mean we can keep making fun of IE? :lol:

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#29 Duncan Aravain

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:14 PM

You do realize who won this years academy award for best actor, don't you?................thought not.


Otherwise, the gist of your argument is spot on.

#30 Roadbeer

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:21 PM

View PostDuncan Aravain, on 16 April 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

You do realize who won this years academy award for best actor, don't you?................thought not.

Shatner finally got one?

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#31 Roadbeer

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:56 PM

Thanks

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#32 Roland

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:07 PM

View PostSpheroid, on 12 April 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

I said "industry" standard not average joe/moron standard.

I think IE actually is the moron standard.


All jokes aside, it's not just a problem with IE. These forums are all barfed up even if you use Chrome. There are all kinds of nonsensical bugs with them, like sometimes when you hit backspace it'll jump up two lines and start deleting stuff you wrote earlier in the page... or the fact that you have to use a special button just to copy and paste text from a post into yours without it pasting in stupid color tags and junk.

#33 White Bear 84

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:25 PM

1. You use internet explorer? *industry standard?* Funniest joke... :P
2. Wow, did not realise how much chrome had eaten into firefox's userbase... ...not a fan of chrome myself. Although use it at work alongside firefox since I cannot update adobe on my firefox version and thus cannot watch videos.. ..stupid firewall..

Edited by White Bear 84, 16 April 2014 - 07:28 PM.


#34 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:29 PM

I for one thank MS for IE! It gave me the ability to download Firefox when I build a computer or more importantly when I have to do a fresh install of Microsoft's other product Windows!

#35 Shar Wolf

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:38 AM

View PostWerewolf486, on 16 April 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

I for one thank MS for IE! It gave me the ability to download Firefox

Fun thought for the day?

My fathers PC won't run Firefox or Chrome.

Every time we have tried to install them the PC has crashed.

The weird bit?
Same model PC I use - same programs on it (though mine has more games installed)

He has no objections to using IE - but I am grateful every day that I don't have to. :lol:

#36 Agent 0 Fortune

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

For a web developer to suggest that their commercial site is not going to support the most widely used web browser seems a little spiteful. Did you also own the last brick & motar betamax video rental store?

I shouldn't poke too much fun, I am currently browsing this forum using Firefox, which would make me the last person renting betamax cassets.

#37 Roadbeer

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:54 PM

View PostAgent 0 Fortune, on 21 April 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

For a web developer to suggest that their commercial site is not going to support the most widely used web browser seems a little spiteful.

It's not the most widely used Browser, just because it's bundled with Windows, doesn't mean it's being used. Once again, here are the stats. That is the data I personally use when building sites, and it shows that IE is used around 10% of the time for 2014. And before you say "Yeah, but that's just for the nerds who visit that site", true, but it's the nerds who visit that site who spend a proportionally large amount of their time thinking about browser compatibility. and equally spend a disproportionate amount of time USING browsers and know what works best, or at least better than others.

Also, if you've ever tried to build a site and make it IE compatible for more than one version of IE, you'd be pretty spiteful about IE too.

#38 WarHippy

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:39 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 21 April 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

It's not the most widely used Browser, just because it's bundled with Windows, doesn't mean it's being used. Once again, here are the stats. That is the data I personally use when building sites, and it shows that IE is used around 10% of the time for 2014. And before you say "Yeah, but that's just for the nerds who visit that site", true, but it's the nerds who visit that site who spend a proportionally large amount of their time thinking about browser compatibility. and equally spend a disproportionate amount of time USING browsers and know what works best, or at least better than others.

Also, if you've ever tried to build a site and make it IE compatible for more than one version of IE, you'd be pretty spiteful about IE too.


To be fair if you are going to give grief to IE for being bundled with windows and therefore something that can be ignored you have to give the Chrome and Firefox the same skepticism as to their use because they are bundled with just about every other thing out there. Very few notice or understand what that little check mark is that says download Chrome and make it your default browser when they are updating adobe, java, or whatever else they come across. As for myself I don't build websites I am a network guy but I can't say I have run into any issues with IE as an end user other than on this site, and I know a lot of businesses that use browser interfaces for their internal applications that either don't work with or only work in a limited fashion with anything other than IE. Personally I think people give IE too much grief, but like I said I don't build sites so I don't know how much of a pain it is to work with.

#39 Roadbeer

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:17 PM

View PostWarHippy, on 21 April 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

<snip>


You misunderstand. I was responding to it being the most widely used browser. It isn't. It's a conclusion that people jump to because they relate (X) million copies of Windows sold as meaning (X) million people using IE. It's a logical fallacy, otherwise Chrome, FireFox, etc wouldn't be more prolific than IE.

For your basic browsing, IE is fine, but the more complex a website, the quicker IE falls apart.

Here is a great example, I also do computer repair, couple months ago, a customer called me saying she was having trouble with her internet (sweet 90 yr old lady). Her kids had just bought her a new computer for Christmas (WIn8) and she was having trouble connecting to Yahoo Games to play cribbage.

After about a 10 minutes, I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working. Downloaded Chrome to test it on that. Chrome worked fine. Turns out, IE was suppressing the Java instillation message from popping up, so the client didn't know that she had to install it in order for Yahoo Games to work on IE.

After installing Java, I told her she was all set and she could use IE now, and her exact words, "Why bother? Seemed to work fine in Chrome without the extra garbage"

#40 Geist Null

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:29 PM

I use IE just so companies have to support it. anything to troll humanity...





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