36 replies to this topic

[anonymous161]

Bah! Screw their so called time line guideline they stopped using that ages ago, no excuse they should just put everything they possibly can in this game to keep it interesting and add variety, who honestly cares about the time line anymore? By now there should be mad cats roaming the battlefield!

This game has so few weapons to choose from no wonder the so called meta is always the center of attention people get bored so they start finding ways to make it interesting!

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 13 April 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

No what it means is only certain omnimechs will get used while others wont get used at all. We already know PGIs omnimech system makes about half the clan mechs dead on arrival.

Now that we can agree on, or at least partially. Some of the seemingly crappy ones like the Adder might be somehow okay-ish (not meta-great, mind you, just decent) if the weapons aren't nerfed too hard. I think that an energy Gausscat (TT damage of CERPPC is 15, same as Gauss...) running around at 97+ kph with the profile size of a light mech could be a completely hilarious troll mech.

[Spheroid]

I don't expect them to be added anytime soon. The current tube count system would completely gimp them. A MRM40 in 4-8 volleys would be worthless.

I would use the smaller launchers for face hug attacks since you get so many shots per ton.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't expect them to be added anytime soon. The current tube count system would completely gimp them. A MRM40 in 4-8 volleys would be worthless.

obviously theyd have to have dynamic missile tubes if they added MRMs. so if a mech equipped an mrm40 it would get 40 missile tubes (or 20 if 40 is too many to model)

[FupDup]

Anyways, SRMs might need a buff (well, more of a buff than they need now) if MRMs were added. As an example, the smallest MRM launcher is the MRM10. It weighs 3 tons and does 10 damage, with a range of 450 meters. The SRM6 weighs 3 tons and does 12 damage, with a range of 270 meters. Pretty much a direct upgrade right there.

[Khobai]

Quote

nyways, SRMs might need a buff (well, more of a buff than they need now) if MRMs were added. As an example, the smallest MRM launcher is the MRM10. It weighs 3 tons and does 10 damage, with a range of 450 meters. The SRM6 weighs 3 tons and does 12 damage, with a range of 270 meters. Pretty much a direct upgrade right there.

Well SRMs should do twice the damage per missile as MRMs. SRMs should also have guidance systems instead of being dumbfire. SRMs should just work like streaks, but unlike streaks, they should completely miss the target about 1/3rd of the time (while streaks always hit). 30% miss chance would make an SRM6 about equal to two SSRM2s. MRMs on the other hand should fire like SRMs currently do but go out to around 450m.

Edited by Khobai, 13 April 2014 - 08:53 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 13 April 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

Well SRMs should do twice the damage per missile as MRMs. SRMs should also have guidance systems instead of being dumbfire.

The first part is already in effect: MRMs do 1 damage per missile (in TT, at least) and SRMs do 2 per missile right now. The issue is that MRMs can pack in a lot more missiles per tonnage to compensate for the lower damage per missile. So, that leaves us with changing SRM mechanics (i.e. guidance) and/or another bump to their damage (i.e. 2.5 per missile).

[SirLANsalot]

FupDup, on 13 April 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

The first part is already in effect: MRMs do 1 damage per missile (in TT, at least) and SRMs do 2 per missile right now. The issue is that MRMs can pack in a lot more missiles per tonnage to compensate for the lower damage per missile. So, that leaves us with changing SRM mechanics (i.e. guidance) and/or another bump to their damage (i.e. 2.5 per missile).

SRMs to 2.5 and up the MRM to 1.5 (so its higher then the LRM's 1.2). This would mean if you want a nice punch with less spread, then the SRM would be better. If you didn't care about the punch, but just wanted to fire 2 volley of 20 missiles, the MRM 40 would be the pick. Those things were actually somewhat good in MW4, when they hit, and they were volley locked weapons. The MRM40 was like 4 waves of just hit after hit after hit.

[Spheroid]

I would just make the spread terrible, way worse than the SRM6 to reflect their inherent inaccuracy and also maybe have the cycle rate slightly longer than SRMs.

Its fairly clear in my mind how they need to be modeled.

Edited by Spheroid, 13 April 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Wolfways]

Burned_Follower, on 13 April 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

Why are there no Medium Range, lock on Missiles in the game?

There are, but PGI calls them LRM's

[Haakon Magnusson]

FupDup, on 13 April 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

Not necessarily. Remember, the *current* plan is that PGI will restrict your Omnimechs to their stock engine, internal type, and armor type (maybe even armor points, depending on how you interpret VLOG #2 ). What this means is that while you have much smaller and lighter guns, you also don't have as much raw free space as an IS mech of similar weight (usually).

Well, all mechs have XL engine so there's your extra tonnage to put the LIGHTER weapons into... only thing which might limit the monstrous advantage is hardpoints and how crappy they set them.
Other than that, it is an armsrace to Clan mechs... I fear it is safe to give a pass at the FW and just get yourself a clan mech and troll with others as clans will break this game as well.

EDIT: Yeah, XL with no disadvantage, unless they add heat or something else when one torso blown off

Edited by Haakon Magnusson, 13 April 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[FupDup]

Haakon Magnusson, on 13 April 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

Well, all mechs have XL engine so there's your extra tonnage to put the LIGHTER weapons into... only thing which might limit the monstrous advantage is hardpoints and how crappy they set them.
Other than that, it is an armsrace to Clan mechs... I fear it is safe to give a pass at the FW and just get yourself a clan mech and troll with others as clans will break this game as well.

EDIT: Yeah, XL with no disadvantage, unless they add heat or something else when one torso blown off

Most IS mechs are XL viable as well, excluding the obvious ones like Hunchback, Stalker, and Atlas. Just about everything else can run XL moderately well or amazingly well.

SirLANsalot, on 13 April 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

SRMs to 2.5 and up the MRM to 1.5 (so its higher then the LRM's 1.2). This would mean if you want a nice punch with less spread, then the SRM would be better. If you didn't care about the punch, but just wanted to fire 2 volley of 20 missiles, the MRM 40 would be the pick. Those things were actually somewhat good in MW4, when they hit, and they were volley locked weapons. The MRM40 was like 4 waves of just hit after hit after hit.

With those damage values, the MRM10 would match SRM6 damage for the same tonnage...but more range.

[Bobzilla]

Cause there would be no point in LRMs being in the game anymore.
LRMs suck at long range, and have a min range and are best used around 300m with los. MRMs would just be the easy version of using LRMs effectively.

Oh and I think clan tech is just going to be really hot with really strict GH limitations. I think it will be so bad every clan mech is going to kinda have to be built like a PPC stalker, slow, hot, high alpha at range with zero sustained dps.

[Khobai]

Quote

Cause there would be no point in LRMs being in the game anymore.

Yeah there would be.

MRMs = medium range, direct-fire only, inaccurate, moderate damage

LRMs = long range, can indirect fire, accurate (when they hold locks), low damage

[Bobzilla]

Khobai, on 14 April 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Yeah there would be.

MRMs = medium range, direct-fire only, inaccurate, moderate damage

LRMs = long range, can indirect fire, accurate (when they hold locks), low damage

I'll say it again a different way.

LRMs are only accurate at short to medium range with direct fire. Which is pretty much your description of MRMs.

Having the ability to do dmg under 180m more than makes up for any damage you would do with indirect fire at long range.

[Haakon Magnusson]

FupDup, on 14 April 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

Most IS mechs are XL viable as well, excluding the obvious ones like Hunchback, Stalker, and Atlas. Just about everything else can run XL moderately well or amazingly well.

Sure, not contesting it wouldn't have it's place in IS mechs, but use of XL in any and all Clan mechs just adds to the benefits they will have with the crits/tons. Those most vocally crying about Clan weapon nerfs conveniently decide to forget the most basic advantages the weapons have already. (Sure some mechs will need to change their role as engine rating can't be changed, but still, overwhelming firepower comparatively. Even without any different range/damage)

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

The IS only starts to develop the MRM's after the initial Clan invasion is well underway. As a counter to the Clans larger streak missile systems the dumb fire MRM's did not require any target locks, but could be somewhat inaccurate.
[using the current 1000mtrs range of LRMs as a start point, MRM's should have a max range of about 715mtrs.]

- MRMs are dead-fire missiles that are fired more like lasers than missiles. In order to pack as many missiles as possible into one salvo, scientists removed guidance systems and made the whole package smaller. The lack of a guidance system and unique nature of MRMs means that they are incompatible with special munitions and advanced guidance systems.
As an example,
- The MRM-10 is the lightest and smallest MRM launcher. It was designed to easily be swapped in for an SRM-6.
- The MRM-20 was designed to be easily swapped in for an LRM-15.
- The MRM-30 was designed to be easily swapped in for an LRM-20.
- The MRM-40 is the largest and bulkiest of the MRMs. [12Tons, 7 slots. 1dmg/missile]
Ref: http://www.sarna.net...m_Range_Missile

As stated most of these improvements in weapons and systems starts after the Clan invasion with a dedicated, no holds barred push to design and get the systems into the field. Quite a few systems arrive in the 3057/8 time line.

- The Clans also continue to develop and improve there weapons and systems in response to this new enemy and there tactics.
They arrive with improved UAC weapons, multi sized LBX weapons, most if not all lasers into extended range systems, and streak systems up to a six pack. While the Inner Sphere is building weapons to catch up in technology the Clans are adding new and better systems to there inventory. By the time the IS field's their new weapons and versions of Clan systems in 3057/8 the Clans have introduced the ATM (Advanced Tactical Missile) in 3/6/9/12 packs with different warheads, damage and range, and the Streak LRM units trading any indirect capacity for less wasteful ammunition usage.

So as you can see, the big time line weapon changes happen in the 3057-60 era. During the 3057 time line the "Word of Blake" assault Terra, and by April 23th 3060 the Great Refusal is fought on the Clans capital world of Strana Mechty. The Great Refusal battles end in victory for the Inner Sphere, ending the Clan Invasion.
(The 15yr "pause" dealt to the Clans on Tukayyid happened in 3052)

On a side note here:
LRM's get there technology upgrades in the 3052 to 3057 timeline. With the introduction of;
- Enhanced LRM (NLRM) - 3054
~ Swarm (Should be here now), Thunder (3052), and Semi-Guided (3057)
- Extended LRM (ELRM) - 3080 [about 2000mtr max range,min about 270-300mtrs]
Ref: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Enhanced_LRM
Ref: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Extended_LRM

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 14 April 2014 - 02:25 PM.