7 replies to this topic

[CommanderHawk2]

Its a subtle, though bothering thing in game, that no matter what angle a mech walks on, the mech foot stays basically flat. One thing that Mw3 did that I really liked was actually make the foot angle to the ground it was on.

Visually, it helped GROUND the mechs into the world they are in

[Mister Bob Dobalina]

It's called Inverse Kinematics and PGI has been struggling with it for Aeons. Has been promised multiple times and postponed as many times as well. It's announced for MW5 though, but then again, this will be built upon the Unreal Engine from scratch. To be brutaly honest I recommend you let that one go. Unless they overhaul MWO, like, completely, this is never gonna happen. Alongside other fun things like not getting the Dasher because it's speed (w/Masc close to 200 kp/h) would break the game or proper melee combat.

[The Basilisk]

As many other Issues with the collision related physics (mech collision, mech toppling and many other mech environment interactions) in MWO this topic has been deemed unsolvable due to the basic build of MWO.

The reason for this is the way how the host state reversion system (HSR) interacts with the collision scan of MWOs game engine.

The HSR has been implemented to compensate for different player pings.
It basicaly calculates things as they where before the data you've send as client to the server, gets processed there and gets send back to you.
This system interacts with the collision scan in MWO and causes delocalisations of mech zones and bodyparts under certain and at the moment rare circumstances. (Mechs jumping, bouncing of from certain terrain obstacles or from each other)

According to the last dev post regarding IK (inverse kinematics) implementing such a system would either increase the client server traffic by a ridiculously large ammount (since the communication would have to be event wise instead of intervall scan, every collision i.e. mech contact to environment) or cause delocalisation and hitbox issues of the IK related mech parts and hitboxes (leggs) due to "blanc spots" for events between scan intervals. (since the exact position of the mech limb would be dictated by the environment and a scan intervall would mean the server does not know where the limb according to its interaction with the environment is between scans, at the moment the server knows due to the ever constant movement animation of the mechs)

This is also the reason why Quad mechs, where the IK system would have to handle the whole mechs behavior according to terrain, will never come to be in MWO.

Edited by The Basilisk, 06 November 2017 - 02:49 AM.

[Koniving]

CommanderHawk2, on 05 November 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

Its a subtle, though bothering thing in game, that no matter what angle a mech walks on, the mech foot stays basically flat. One thing that Mw3 did that I really liked was actually make the foot angle to the ground it was on.

Visually, it helped GROUND the mechs into the world they are in

Had it, was removed after HSR (host state rewind) as the lag compensation could not account for the IK position that you would see clientside.

In other words, I shoot your legs. I hit your legs.
Server has no idea that I see your legs as bent to the hill.
Server says "**** no you ain't hit them legs, no damage!"
We complain on the forums about how broken the game is.
Game gets bad press.
People stop playing the game.

Vicious cycle repeats on every instance.
PGI removed it.

They said they were working on it in 2016.
In 2017... PGI said "We gave up."

Also one of the real reasons knockdowns were removed... Clientside and serverside knockdown IK could not agree on positioning.
A prime example.


Notice where the mechs fall.
When they get up, they are where the server says they fell.

Followup: This is a group that actually knows what they are doing, has a budget, etc... and the hurdles they suffered in trying to get this to work. We can summarize the 20+ minute presentation of how they did it as "too hard for PGI."

Edited by Koniving, 06 November 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[Koniving]

In the video, the element of physicalized blockers is apparent in MWO as well, as shown in this clip.


This is the mech is physicalized on the server but not on the client, in which case the server says "You can't do that" but the client says "Yes I can" and the two argue.

The big issue is that on MWO, the server is the ultimate authority, but it doesn't have a 3D render of the map, just basic blocked shapes like the grey planes in the other video. This is also why this issue exists.



So, the server and the client can't agree on how IK should work, causing disagreements between the two, screwing up hit registration, and frustrating players.

That's why we can't have nice things.

[Mister Bob Dobalina]

I can live well with no IK in MWO as it is a fast moving and fast paced combat game and would sort it into "nice-to-have" and "cosmetic issue". On the other hand I really like how the upcoming Battletech game, using the MWO models, has integrated IK into the gameplay. As a turned base game it can really go there and I truly love the visual style of this tabletop simulator. That's one game I spend a lot of time just playing around with different camera angles and views just to enjoy it.

[Raven40]

Pgi spends money on comp championship instead of improving game in the smallest of ways....hm... Sad.

Take money that we've all spent on the game too, as an addition...

[knight-of-ni]

and to think this thread was going to be about fishing with your feet....