243 replies to this topic

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Phoenix Gray, on 15 April 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

Now lemme get this straight... they SOLD us little piddling range increases for the AC2, that we had to buy. Then when we BOUGHT them, they cut the max range falloff by a THIRD? ANd cut the muzzle velocity of the /5's?

Is this to make life easier for those expensive Clan mechs or did people just miss brawling that much?

Maybe they thought they do not sell enough of the range packages. Not that I will buy another one now. They didn't even mention the machine gun one added heat, and it does. So those things are in the useless pile too.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 15 April 2014 - 06:56 PM.

[kesuga7]

Captain Stern, on 15 April 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

Khobai, why not just say "remove all AC's from the game", maybe there should be a tradeoff between unlimited ammo and short term damage ? That's the basic tradeoff, Energy weapons get unlimited ammo, while AC's are heavy, take lots of ammo, but generate less heat, and are better in damage and range ? Now your recommending no range advantage across the board ? This just feels like they want to remove the AC2, next patch, they might boost it a little, to try and shut us up, but that's like buying a 5% increase in range, in exchange for real money, then reducing range by 33% across the board. Humm

well when you say tonnage about ballistics thats usually not a problem for jaggermechs/catapratchs/banshee's/highlanders/victors and the ammo explosions really don't happen often enough
running out of ammo is another rare thing for big dakka mechs iv seen too

Easy to use - Superior range - able to brawl - excellent at killing lights and assaults - low heat except for ac 2 - lots of DPS - pinpoint
i do think ballistics need some tweaking

but even with 1000 meter range AC 2's still can deal quite allot of hurt as opposed to the
as of now slower projectile speed AC 5's with some reduced range


Ghost heat only effects rapid chainfire for the most part but that is not stopping it from dealing damage so i don't see how its effecting its viability if it can't screenshake as much
which it can't as much because it did have a screen shake reduction
but yeah ghost heat for AC 2's is plain dumb but it doesn't make the weapon bad

Edited by kesuga7, 15 April 2014 - 06:59 PM.

[Captain Stern]

Have you used 4 at once ( the max you can use befor almost auto shutdown) damage for your 34 tons of stuff is 8 per. PPC get burst damage, all to one spot, in one second. Lasers get to drag, and always do something to those spiders. AC-2 have to sit out there and take the damage to do ANY, but have to run and hide, if someone else wants to trade. Since the other guy almost always vastly exceeds your DPS. Primary use was suppression fire and sniper fire.
Another way to put it...How many elite games had an AC-2 in them ? PPC/ AC 10, gauss, ect...But when did anybody pull out the AC 2 in an elite game ?

[Xephan]

As for the ac 2 nerf, it should be nerf'd but not the way it was. Its range should be amazing, but its rate of fire and the rate of fire of all auto cannons should be the same, and relatively slow.

in table top a ac 2 does 1/10 the dps of a ac20

Just saying.

[FupDup]

Xephan, on 15 April 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

As for the ac 2 nerf, it should be nerf'd but not the way it was. Its range should be amazing, but its rate of fire and the rate of fire of all auto cannons should be the same, and relatively slow.

in table top a ac 2 does 1/10 the dps of a ac20

Just saying.

Also in Tabletop, every AC barring the AC/20 is garbage and completely inferior to mixed PPCs + MLas.

[Rebas Kradd]

AC2s are still getting used just as much at my ELO. It's just that you won't get tickled from 2000m away now.

[VtV Pilot RAID]

wow they nerfed the ac 2 so bad it's now worthless. it's rate of fire is so slow it's ROF is slower than the ultra ac5..pathetic. well guess now they wil have to come up with a ultra ac2.

rather dismayed at turn of events with this new patch.

RAID

[Captain Stern]

Xephan, in the tabletop, you went based on turns, the extra range allowed you to get your shots off. Now, you can appear on thescreen, run up and dump your load pretty quickly.
Rebas ,Still getting used ? Would you say its in the top 5 weapons chosen ? No, it was not "never seen" , but out of 24 mechs..each with mult weapon choices, if you see only 1 or 2..thats pretty clear. Now that number will drop. Of course it's still getting used,(today) it's like picking at a scab. but unless changed RADICLY, in a week or two, it will join the pulse laser and narc. No one like to lose all the time.

[Captain Stern]

Raid, you know what pissed me off the most ?..The part wear they talk about listening to us ... I am sure someone there reads this stuff. Why not respond ? use data to show how they needed to make the change ? Answer questions like " why does glass still blind me in shadows ?" Or how about fixing the broken stuff ? No... We get this ..

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Who wants to bet the clan weapons get the old stats they are nerfing?

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 15 April 2014 - 07:31 PM.

[Captain Stern]

Clan teck will be equal but different than current teck. They have to, else everybody just switches to clan. They will keep Inner S. viable. Though some of there ideas strike me as stupid ... The super easy to modify clan mechs will be less modifiable then Inner S. ?
Thread is about AC-2... They moved quickly and combined all the threads..Humm maybe they thought it might be a unpopular decision ?

[Wrathful-Khan]

Ecrof, on 15 April 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Did one of the Devs play the game once and get killed buy Ac/2s once and decide they are OP?

Haha! My bad - I actually killed Thomas Dziegielewski (who I believe is the weapons balancer) with my AC2 Jager back during the "Kill the Devs" challenge. He went down in the first 30 secs and I don't think he even got a shot off...

So yeah it was me

[Ecrof]

Indiandream, on 15 April 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Haha! My bad - I actually killed Thomas Dziegielewski (who I believe is the weapons balancer) with my AC2 Jager back during the "Kill the Devs" challenge. He went down in the first 30 secs and I don't think he even got a shot off...

So yeah it was me

LOL

[Smokeyjedi]

besides the ac2 nerf, i feel a disturbance in the force........something is not right here....the game feels......totally different and I am not sure its a good thing.......

[Moe Zart]

Dear developers,

While I understand the need for weapon balancing, the latest balancing of ACs is ridiculous, especially range not dps. Since MWO is a battlemech simulation, it should stay close to CBT canon and use original game rule mechanics.

Introduction of cooldown time, ghost heat and other things are off-canon. These balancing options should be sufficient, if properly implemented:

• weight
  
• slots
  
• ammo
  
• damage
  
• range
  
• heat

It would take to long, to explain all trade-offs. However, imagine the game with properly introduced heat penalities. According to CBT, heat effects slow a mech down, make aiming harder and introduce risks of shutdown and ammo explosion. Just google "battletech heat effects" for a table.


Heat effects on speed are trivial: the hotter a mech gets, the slower it moves. Note, that slowdown is absolute not relative, that is about 50% slowdown for 60 km/h mechs (~30 km/h) and about 33% for 90 km/h mechs (~30 km/h) just before first shutdown.

Heat impacts on aiming are a bit more complex. In principle, the hotter a mech gets, the harder it can aim. To reflect this, a general cockpit shake would be necessary: minor at low temperatures and larger in hot mechs. (Introduce a cockpit shake for every weapon fired, too. Then you would also solve the pin-point-damage problem.)

Implement more challenging shutdown and ammoexplosion mechanics. Basically, it gets harder to avoid them the hotter a mech gets. Display random letters on screen to be pressed which increase with more heat (and random keys to circumvent macro abuse). E.g. Betty asks to press "P" to avoid shutdown the first time. Second time she would ask to press "L" and "P". After a cooling phase the next initial shutdown could be avoided by pressing "O". Did I mention that the first chance of ammo explosion comes directly after avoiding the first shutdown?

With these mechanics installed, you can set weapon cooldown time of all weapons to 1-2 seconds, but inline with heat sinks.

I know, there won't be time to implement this, neither now (CW) or later. However, those lines took some weight from my heart.

Best regards,
Moe

[Wrathful-Khan]

As an AC2 user (abuser) I would have to put my 2 cents that the Advanced Zoom module was more of the issue than the actual range of the AC2.

Edited by Indiandream, 15 April 2014 - 09:15 PM.

[ShinVector]

Captain Stern, on 15 April 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Clan teck will be equal but different than current teck. They have to, else everybody just switches to clan. They will keep Inner S. viable. Though some of there ideas strike me as stupid ... The super easy to modify clan mechs will be less modifiable then Inner S. ?
Thread is about AC-2... They moved quickly and combined all the threads..Humm maybe they thought it might be a unpopular decision ?

I bet almost 100% of the lame LRM boaters that we see currently will certainly switch to C/LRMS.

[SgtKinCaiD]

I really don't understand their logic :

• PGI did nothing about weapon balance for nearly 6+ months,
  
• now lrm are kind of OK and PGI have finally tracked the problem of the srm hit reg,
  
• instead of waiting to see if the srm get back their king place in brawl and how things sort out, no they have to gimp the AC2.
  
• and the actual high alpha meta is still not adress.

[Kmieciu]

Hey Paul, I'm not even mad about the AC2 change. They were useless since the introduction of ghost heat. Now they serve as a great noob indicator.

You see an enemy armed with AC2 = easy kill.
You see a teammate using AC2s = leave him alone, he'll probably get swarmed and die anyway.

[Wolfways]

Well, i had a few matches in my JM6-S (stock weapons) and the nerf seems to have made little difference so far. Will keep testing.

Why the AC2 got a range nerf instead of all AC's becoming max range at 2x optimal is...unfathomable?