243 replies to this topic

[Masterrix]

I can live with "DPS + ghostheat nerf", but "range nerf" was too much, limiting AC2's role ingame (against snipers and LRM-noobs)

bring back the range and don't overnerf weapons


.

Edited by Masterrix, 17 April 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

To me, this large nerf to the AC2 only seems justified if they are further nerfs planned for other Auto-Cannons. More precisely for the AC5 and UAC5.

I agree, the problem is I dont think Paul has any intention of nerfing the range of the other autocannons to x2. Even though thats exactly what they need to do.

IMO these are the ideal stats for autocannons to give each autocannon its own niche in the game:

AC20 = 270m optimal, 540m max, 6 heat, 5 dps
AC10 = 450m optimal, 900m max, 3 heat, 4 dps
AC5 = 540m optimal, 1080m max, 1.5 heat, 3 dps
AC2 = 720m optimal, 1440m max, 0.6 heat, 3 dps

[Archon]

Kusunoki Masashige, on 15 April 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I just ran my fav mech in a match... sad its now useless and needs a complete retool. Looks like i will be pulling AC/2 & 5's from all my builds and going with AC/10 since they are only 200 slower and pack more of a wallop. Poor move PGI....

Careful, if you change your now nerfed weapons to the next remotely useable weapon they'll nerf it!

[Kusunoki Masashige]

Archon, on 17 April 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Careful, if you change your now nerfed weapons to the next remotely useable weapon they'll nerf it!

lol yah you might be right im just annoyed with PGI and the wack concepts. the seem to teeter to extremes on their supposed fixes

[Doomie77]

LRM's get overbuffed, then pulled back. AC2? Same story, but in reverse. They may yet put it back to something closer to what it was range wise.

What I'm miffed about is having to lead targets by another 5 to 10 pixels for ac5/uac5. lol

Edited by Doomie77, 17 April 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[Steinkrieg]

Archon, on 17 April 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Careful, if you change your now nerfed weapons to the next remotely useable weapon they'll nerf it!

This happens every few months to me Every single build that I am effective with gets nerfed. Consequently, I am running LERMS cuz they piss me off right now. LERMS nerf incoming in a month.

On-Topic: I am extremely vexed at the AC/2 changes. I found it to be an effective, multi-roll weapon that did not make me feel handicapped most of the time while running them, except when swarmed by lights. I could deal with the heat and the damage nerf...but the ranged nerf is extremely frustrating now. I switched to AC/2s from Gauss because of the ridiculous charge up sequence. Nothing much to do now in a few mechs.

Edited by Steinkrieg, 17 April 2014 - 10:54 AM.

[Ngamok]

Podex, on 16 April 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

There's always the option of removing all weapons and replacing them with chocolates and flowers. MWO will be one giant love-in.

That is until they realize that chocolate is better than flowers and those get nerfed, too.

Reese's Peanutbutter Cups or Kit Kats then we'll talk.

[Mad Ox]

Hmm sorta lame changes to AC5 and AC2 sure they were capable of better sustained damage but that also meant they had to sit out exposed inorder to do that damage. Thats there down fall. While AC10/20 hit hard have advantage of pop out fire and hide peek a boo style.

Frankly all ammo weapons should be hit with dedicated Ammo bins. This having 7 tons of ammo shared across to all weapons across entire mech is a bit sill can you imagine how complicated all that delivery system would be with 2 or 3 or more weapon of same type? Assigning weapons in different locations to have different ammo bins would first effect setups greatly.

[Doomie77]

Mad Ox, on 17 April 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Hmm sorta lame changes to AC5 and AC2 sure they were capable of better sustained damage but that also meant they had to sit out exposed inorder to do that damage. Thats there down fall. While AC10/20 hit hard have advantage of pop out fire and hide peek a boo style.

Frankly all ammo weapons should be hit with dedicated Ammo bins. This having 7 tons of ammo shared across to all weapons across entire mech is a bit sill can you imagine how complicated all that delivery system would be with 2 or 3 or more weapon of same type? Assigning weapons in different locations to have different ammo bins would first effect setups greatly.

Interesting solution - and you are right. Many different mech builds would become unworkable instantly with a dedicated ammo bin setup.

[Khobai]

Quote

Frankly all ammo weapons should be hit with dedicated Ammo bins.

Thats not at all what we need We dont need unbalanced weapons balanced by poor game mechanics. What we need are balanced weapons with solid game mechanics.

[Gyrok]

AC2 is now effectively neutered. Will not be using these any time soon. Many thanks for "tweaking" a well balanced weapon that was actually slightly underperforming in all reality. Only effective in 3s before, now it would need to be 4-5x AC2 to be effective...thanks to ghost heat no such build would even be worth attempting, especially considering only 2 mechs in game could actually pull it off anyway.

AC5 honestly was not overperforming either, it was just the weapon of choice for jump snipers because you could fit 2 in to get a slight DPS boost over AC10. The velocity nerf was unnecessary. You are trying to solve a problem of pinpoint damage by nerfing weapons that spread damage...thus further driving people to jump sniping. Additionally, mechs that were useful for things other than jump sniping before are now good for only jump sniping. Good job.

[Ecrof]

How long till no one cares about Ac/2s like flame throwers? Another trash bin weapon after this thread sinks?

[FupDup]

Ecrof, on 18 April 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

How long till no one cares about Ac/2s like flame throwers? Another trash bin weapon after this thread sinks?

Ah yes, Flamers.



*Shudders*

[Captain Stern]

I love how people compare DPS and do not consider the value of burst damage or pinpoint damage. You get kills with pinpoint damage and you can unload then duck and cover with burst damage. AC2 had neather before. Now its slower, with NO real range.So many better choices it no longer fills ANY role. Pissed that I just bought a spare Jagger to run my fav build of 4- AC2. Now I have multiple useless mechs. But hay, I still have to run from missiles and the most common builds are unaffected. The PPC and AC5 builds still work best. Now more so. Don't worry PGI, I hear your message..You hate us, and want us to play other games. OK, I'll go look for a game with out glass. One wear I can destroy the environment. But most of all, one wear they value the consumer.

[Blue Drache]

Ecrof, on 18 April 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

How long till no one cares about Ac/2s like flame throwers? Another trash bin weapon after this thread sinks?

I doubt this thread will ever sink, because the crap they've done to this game is intolerable. This is what you happens when you hire a company that makes Bass Fishing games to make an FPS.

Edited by Blue Drache, 19 April 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[VXJaeger]

Gotta go to bigger guns to sure after AC2's were made useless.

I'm gonna change my BNS-3E's loadout from 2*AC2+2*UAC5+4*ML to 3*AC5+2*PPC because according to PGI that is safer to n00bs. AC2s just don't have that dakka-feel anymore, useless peashooters.
But after watching 1,5yrs of PGI policy on weapons, it will be as useless 'cause they will nerf them too after whining n00bbitches start crying. There's no reason to learn any weaponsystem in this game, 'cause it will be nerfed after a while to shit.

This game is gonna die to these n00b licking nerfs. It's should be that players adapt to game, not other way around.

Edited by VXJaeger, 20 April 2014 - 06:40 AM.

[Amsro]

I will Dakkamaster and report back the results sometime this weekend. I'm curious if they have been made useless.

[FupDup]

Amsro, on 20 April 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

I will Dakkamaster and report back the results sometime this weekend. I'm curious if they have been made useless.

Keep in mind that carrying them in fairly large numbers won't be penalized as heavily as builds with only 1-2 of the weapon on them, so your results might not hold true for all configurations...

[Amsro]

FupDup, on 20 April 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

Keep in mind that carrying them in fairly large numbers won't be penalized as heavily as builds with only 1-2 of the weapon on them, so your results might not hold true for all configurations...

Agreed! But like a couple weapons in this game a single AC/2 wasn't very good before the nerf, and will likely be bad after too. But 3 of them was workable before.

Edited by Amsro, 20 April 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[Gyrok]

Amsro, on 20 April 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Agreed! But like a couple weapons in this game a single AC/2 wasn't very good before the nerf, and will likely be bad after too. But 3 of them was workable before.

3 of them before was good for stripping armor and usually netted you a few kills. However, I did have quite a few matches running 700+ damage before with no kills...(kill stealing thieves not accounted for there...) Now, you will likely have to hold on the target roughly ~30% longer to do same damage...which is basically worthless.

Let us consider this:

AC20 + 2xPPC meta build can do 40 damage out to 270m to a specific point on a mech. Accounting for recharge that is 4 seconds of 10 DPS delivered in 1 blast. If an enemy needs 40 damage to die, 1 blast kills it in that interval to 1 section of the mech.

With 3xAC2, DPS is now 9.03 per second...but it is *NOT* burst damage, it is applied over time in a sustained manner. This means that same mech that required 40 damage to die to 1 specific location will now take 4.42 seconds to kill...

However, because you are not firing one blast at one component, let us say they can torso twist a modicum, and account for the 60% hit chance because we are using damage over time. I would wager the average hit ratio for a player using AC2 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-70%. So if 30% of shots miss, and say another 20% hit an unintended area because of the target moving, now we have increased that 4.42 seconds to 6.83 seconds.

That is 6.83 seconds you must be exposed firing sustained on the target. Before, it was bad enough, however, now DPS weapons can no longer compete with burst damage pinpoint alpha builds. They really did not compete before, but it was close enough you could use it and still be effective enough if you did not want to run a meta alpha strike build.

Instead, as with every other change to weapon mechanics, high pinpoint alpha strike builds are being reinforced and DPS builds are being nerfed because...well...because...PGI cannot think of anything better to do with their time? I cannot fathom what the reason is...but the balance passes being made do not relate to solving the issues, and barely even manage to treat the symptoms.

I really hate to give negative feedback in such a way, especially as a game developer myself...but the reality is the writing is on the wall. They do not know how to solve the issue that the community has and are trying to treat symptoms.

Edited by Gyrok, 20 April 2014 - 12:29 PM.