39 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Rebas Kradd, on 16 April 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

We could reach 15 different counters for ECM and nobody would be satisfied.

I think a lot of people just want LRMgeddon back.

Only if it comes with working SRMs.

That way we would have 3 working weapon systems, long range support, close range weapons and the master FLD race.

As it stands, the meta has been stale for far too long, FLD in the most heat efficient package.

[Koniving]

Livewyr, on 15 April 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

So the big issue with ECM versus the counters is:

ECM does nothing but exist and provide a mobile deadzone. (1.5 tons, ECM slot)

Counters:
Tag: Must remain on target. (1 ton, 1 energy weapon slot.)
NARC: Must be fired at target, lasts limited duration. (4+ tons, 1 missile weapon slot)
PPC: Must be fired at target, last for a very limited duration. (7 tons, 1 energy slot)
BAP: Must be kissing the ECM mech to counter. (1.5tons)
UAV: One time use, limited duration, static (and destroyable) consumable. (No weight, module slot)

-------------------------

Seems pretty unfair to me that ECM just sits passively and works for 1.5 tons without input from the pilot...

So I propose:
In order for an ECM mech to be un-targetable by an opposing mech, he must train his crosshairs on the opposing mech to achieve the effect! (Constantly, like TAG)

Makes perfect (Russpaulian) sense!


Who is with me?!
Anyone?
....
Bueller?

Welp let's compare this to lore.

Guardian ECM.
Delays target lock.
Does not give target information (Name, Mech, Weapons, Health. But it gives a SQUARE and something to lock on).
Delays LRMs.
Disables Artemis benefits.
Has Zero Effect on Streaks.
2 slots.
1.5 tons.
Counts as "one" ECM in ECM countering rules.
Is cheap to repair (R&R).

Angel ECM.
Delays target lock.
Does not give target information (Name, Mech, Weapons, Health. But it gives a SQUARE and something to lock on).
Delays LRMs.
Disables Artemis benefits.
Prevents Standard SRMs from tracking. (SRMs in lore are guided missiles that track and follow targets; MWO gave us glorified nerfed MRMs).
Turns Streaks into dumbfired rockets.
2 slots.
2 tons.
Counts as two ECMs in ECM countering rules.
Is obscenely expensive to repair (almost your entire earnings in R&R).

For Invisibility cloak on either, requires Stealth Armor. Weighs as much as standard armor but consumes 12 slots. (Imagine this on an Atlas).

Counters: Hard.
PPC, gives temporary EMP effect.
Guardian ECM counter mode. (2 against Angel)
Angel ECM counter mode (counts as 2 against Guardian, Angel can counter Angel on its own).

Counters: Soft.
TAG, reduces lock on time. Points out ECM target under Stealth Armor.
NARC (not lore friendly but it makes some sense. NARC disabling ECM if it attaches to ECM user. But ECM can disable NARC on allied players).
Proximity -- overrides invisibility within certain ranges outside of 180 mm but within 220mm, allows all to see the Steatlh Armored ECM user.
Advanced Sensor Module, increases proximity override window against stealth armor invisibility by x amount, with a max at 250.

Notes: Guardian ECM + Stealth Armor = 14 slots.
Angel ECM + Stealth armor = 14 slots.
This will reduce the ammunition that light mechs with ECM can carry or reduce their speed, as well, to be able to fit this much more.
An Atlas would have to give up either DHS or an AC/20 and/or those twin LRM-20s to have its 'invisibility'.

Edited by Koniving, 16 April 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[Livewyr]

Koniving, on 16 April 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Welp let's compare this to lore.

Guardian ECM.
Delays target lock.
Does not give target information (Name, Mech, Weapons, Health. But it gives a SQUARE and something to lock on).
Delays LRMs.
Disables Artemis benefits.
Has Zero Effect on Streaks.
2 slots.
1.5 tons.
Counts as "one" ECM in ECM countering rules.
Is cheap to repair (R&R).

Angel ECM.
Delays target lock.
Does not give target information (Name, Mech, Weapons, Health. But it gives a SQUARE and something to lock on).
Delays LRMs.
Disables Artemis benefits.
Prevents Standard SRMs from tracking. (SRMs in lore are guided missiles that track and follow targets; MWO gave us glorified nerfed MRMs).
Turns Streaks into dumbfired rockets.
2 slots.
2 tons.
Counts as two ECMs in ECM countering rules.
Is obscenely expensive to repair (almost your entire earnings in R&R).

For Invisibility cloak on either, requires Stealth Armor. Weighs as much as standard armor but consumes 12 slots. (Imagine this on an Atlas).

Counters: Hard.
PPC, gives temporary EMP effect.
Guardian ECM counter mode. (2 against Angel)
Angel ECM counter mode (counts as 2 against Guardian, Angel can counter Angel on its own).

Counters: Soft.
TAG, reduces lock on time. Points out ECM target under Stealth Armor.
NARC (not lore friendly but it makes some sense. NARC disabling ECM if it attaches to ECM user. But ECM can disable NARC on allied players).
Proximity -- overrides invisibility within certain ranges outside of 180 mm but within 220mm, allows all to see the Steatlh Armored ECM user.
Advanced Sensor Module, increases proximity override window against stealth armor invisibility by x amount, with a max at 250.

Notes: Guardian ECM + Stealth Armor = 14 slots.
Angel ECM + Stealth armor = 14 slots.
This will reduce the ammunition that light mechs with ECM can carry or reduce their speed, as well, to be able to fit this much more.

Well, yes.. that would be a "logical" implementation.. however given where we are, I think the OP is as good a suggestion as any!

[Wolfways]

Trauglodyte, on 16 April 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

ECM does what it is supposed to do. PGI just furthered its capabilities when they created the current lock-on mechanism for LRMs and Streaks and applied current timeframe electronics jamming similarities to it. I was never an EWO and don't know anyone that was so I'll defer to those that might be. I think the only thing that ECM does in game that doesn't currently exist is the hard countering of missile locks. And by that, I mean, electronics jamming does occur as it allows top militaries to counter countries using old tech but I don't know that it would allow for a electronics craft, like an updated Prowler, going up against our own military hard ware. Anyone?

Anyway, this is the pillar the PGI is utilizing:

http://www.radartuto...cm/ja05.en.html

I meant it should do what it did in BT.
ECM was made as a counter to T2 equipment (ArtemisIV, TAG, etc.) and did not effect the lock-on ability of basic T1 (LRM's, Streaks) missiles.
In MWO ECM negates the lock-on ability of missiles and is countered by T2 equipment. That makes ECM much more powerful than in was in BT, especially for a 1.5ton passive piece of equipment.

Also, please do not compare BT to RL. It is a fantasy world where things don't make sense in our world.

[Bront]

Livewyr, on 16 April 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

Nobody seems to like my idea...

*sad face*

It was a bad idea, and you should feel bad.



Honestly, I think reducing the size of the ECM bubble might help a bit.

[Livewyr]

okok a better idea then:

http://mwomercs.com/...38#entry3299738

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Rebas Kradd, on 16 April 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

We could reach 15 different counters for ECM and nobody would be satisfied.

I think a lot of people just want LRMgeddon back.

nope, we just wont to play BT
and BT ECM is something totaly diferent
allways when thay mess up with lore, thay screw up something hard, is that simple

[poopenshire]

is this TT?

NO!

problem solved. accept it, this is happening.

almost every thing I see anymore is BT this, and TT that.

This MWO, and its neither of those. if you want BT or TT play BT and TT.

Edited by poopenshire, 16 April 2014 - 03:51 PM.

[Livewyr]

poopenshire, on 16 April 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

is this TT?

NO!

problem solved. accept it, this is happening.

almost every thing I see anymore is BT this, and TT that.

This MWO, and its neither of those. if you want BT or TT play BT and TT.

Oh good lord...that's your final answer?

This imbalanced pile of feces is the status quo, so accept it?

I wonder where else we could apply that logic...

[Wolfways]

poopenshire, on 16 April 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

is this TT?

NO!

problem solved. accept it, this is happening.

almost every thing I see anymore is BT this, and TT that.

This MWO, and its neither of those. if you want BT or TT play BT and TT.

Yes i agree with you. PGI should remove/replace all BT references, names, and art...and then see how many players are left

[poopenshire]

Livewyr, on 16 April 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

Oh good lord...that's your final answer?

This imbalanced pile of feces is the status quo, so accept it?

I wonder where else we could apply that logic...

you don't like it, well leave.

seriously folks. you want TT play TT. PGI is paying for the rights to make this game how they see fit.

Yes you pay PGI, but if you don't like it then don't pay. If you don't like and don't pay, well then be quiet and enjoy your free game, your nothing but a spoiled petulant child.

Unless your a stock holder of PGI its none of your business. They have the right to make the game how they see fit.

Do not sit there and pretend that you as a consumer have the right to dictate how they operate.

Do I like everything they do, NO. Do I have a choice, Yes. I choose to stay and play, which means I live with the decisions they make.

[Karl Streiger]

poopenshire, on 17 April 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

Do I like everything they do, NO. Do I have a choice, Yes. I choose to stay and play, which means I live with the decisions they make.

If i may make a guess - you will be gone and your account rotten and mothballed -when I'm still there playing MWO.

If we accept that ECM is a pile of crap - we accept everything - we will be upset - but we won't tell - we won't tell - we don't care - we don't care we leave.

Play that game for a year - maybe you will have an improved experience - but you have not seen ECM as it was at the very beginning - with not a single counter.

[Hollow Earth]

poopenshire, on 17 April 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

you don't like it, well leave.

seriously folks. you want TT play TT. PGI is paying for the rights to make this game how they see fit.

Yes you pay PGI, but if you don't like it then don't pay. If you don't like and don't pay, well then be quiet and enjoy your free game, your nothing but a spoiled petulant child.

Unless your a stock holder of PGI its none of your business. They have the right to make the game how they see fit.

Do not sit there and pretend that you as a consumer have the right to dictate how they operate.

Do I like everything they do, NO. Do I have a choice, Yes. I choose to stay and play, which means I live with the decisions they make.

So you are saying game devs should ignore all player feedback and suggestions for improvements?

Yeah, no, yeah really i don't see how this is in anyway an unsound business strategy. there is no way this could possibly go wrong.

[poopenshire]

Hollow Earth, on 17 April 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

So you are saying game devs should ignore all player feedback and suggestions for improvements?

Yeah, no, yeah really i don't see how this is in anyway an unsound business strategy. there is no way this could possibly go wrong.

No I am saying they have the right to ignore it.

just as you have the right to not pay if your not happy.

You can whine and cry about all the changes in the world you want, at the end of the day the right is theirs.

[L A V A]

Karl Streiger, on 17 April 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

but you have not seen ECM as it was at the very beginning - with not a single counter.

There was always "counter" to "disrupt," as far as I can remember.

[Karl Streiger]

xLAVAx, on 19 April 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

There was always "counter" to "disrupt," as far as I can remember.

Me culpa
Of course the only way to beat an enemy ECM - was another ECM....
warning, sarcasm detected "so ECM was never OP - because it was possible to be countered all the time"

[Livewyr]

poopen.. are you saying that because you genuinely think the game should be exactly as PGI envisioned it compared to what the playerbase wants? Or is it because you like the current implementation of ECM- suiting you? I'm curious.

Lava.. to be blunt: Being the counter to yourself doesn't make a good case that you're not imbalanced with the rest of the equipment.


Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why PGI hasn't added anymore ECM mechs in a year? (I'm looking for answers other than "because they know it's broken")

[Col Jaime Wolf]

ya i would say ECM is broken, or in a word "not right" for one simple reason.

PGI wont release any more ECM mechs, which means they know its imbalanced and broken as hell.

plenty of mechs could use an ECM to like the awesome, suddenly it would be a really good mech.

in fact ALMOST any mech would become a really good mech with ECM.

also anyone notice that mechs with ECM tend to be the top tier of their variants?

i rest my case.

Edited by Mellifluer, 19 April 2014 - 09:36 PM.

[L A V A]

Mellifluer, on 19 April 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

also anyone notice that mechs with ECM tend to be the top tier of their variants?

Nope.

I'll take a Firestarter any day over a Raven or a Spider.
I'll take a X5 any day over a Cicada 3M.
I'll take a Highlander any day over a DDC.

The only thing I will never take is a missile boat without tag.

[mogs01gt]

poopenshire, on 16 April 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Sounds like everyone here does not know how to counter ECM.
Its rather easy as a scout to TAG and ECM mech... I do it all the time, infact I run scout for my team quite well, and lock those ECM in for LRMs to bust them before the get close enough to have any effect
and ECM counters ECM.....
OMG you mean you could have your own ECM teammates countering those ECM enemies????!!!!
I see more teams using split ECM, half the ECM mechs are cover, half on countering (it also messes with their radars up close <180m).

So all you have said is to counter ECM with ECM....So limit the game to like 5 mechs?