38 replies to this topic

[Hans Von Lohman]

I had been looking forward to this mech for a while. I wanted a PPC shoulder cannon instead of an Autocannon Shadow Hawk.

However, now that I know the other energy weapons are not in the arms I am not so sure. It could be a good mech, does have +25% torso twist speed and +5% turning speed, but I still feel like I would have liked to have arm mounted energy.

Still, I don't think it will be a bad mech.

It is just that I like the 2D better.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nope.

It's just gonna function best at a different role. The lack of arm weapons makes it a skosh less effective at Light Hunting (waste of the chassis anyhow, IMO), but with it's already fabulous hitboxes, and the arms being pure armor? It's going to be very nice against heavier units.

[FupDup]

The fact that it has only 6 hardpoints compared to the 7 of most other Shadows is what turns me off about it...especially because it lacks a ballistic. That shoulder cannon is a big part of what made the Shad so effective compared to the other mediums. It probably won't be bad by virtue of just being a Shad, but I expect the 2D to surpass both it and the 2D2, or the 2D2 will remain as the top dawg of the Shawk lineup.

[Xenoid]

The 2D2 is an upgrade to the 2D, what you get out of the 2D you get more out of with the 2D2. I find it to be a waste even having the 2D as an option. Now, as for the K, I'm rather giddy. Like already mentioned, having no arm weapons makes it pure armor. And not having the standard ballistic, though a departure from your typical Shawk, will prove a nice alternative. Exchange the tonnage from an AC and ammo and insert what you want for energy and sinks. My 5M build has been playing this role with moderate success, hopefully the K can bring me the desired build I've been wanting.

[Curccu]

GoTeamVenture, on 14 April 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

The 2D2 is an upgrade to the 2D, what you get out of the 2D you get more out of with the 2D2. I find it to be a waste even having the 2D as an option. Now, as for the K, I'm rather giddy. Like already mentioned, having no arm weapons makes it pure armor. And not having the standard ballistic, though a departure from your typical Shawk, will prove a nice alternative. Exchange the tonnage from an AC and ammo and insert what you want for energy and sinks. My 5M build has been playing this role with moderate success, hopefully the K can bring me the desired build I've been wanting.

2D is very welcome addition both energys and ballistic on same side which allows loadouts like AC20 and 2xMPL on same side and you have shield side which you can tank damage with.

2K.. well 3 high mounted energy slots on 55 tonner is pretty nice, ghost heat kinda ruins it but oh well.

[FupDup]

GoTeamVenture, on 14 April 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

The 2D2 is an upgrade to the 2D, what you get out of the 2D you get more out of with the 2D2. I find it to be a waste even having the 2D as an option. Now, as for the K, I'm rather giddy. Like already mentioned, having no arm weapons makes it pure armor. And not having the standard ballistic, though a departure from your typical Shawk, will prove a nice alternative. Exchange the tonnage from an AC and ammo and insert what you want for energy and sinks. My 5M build has been playing this role with moderate success, hopefully the K can bring me the desired build I've been wanting.

How is the 2D a downgrade? You get a third energy weapon in exchange for one missile rack when compared to the 2D2. People who use things like Medium Lasers will find good use of that extra energy hardpoint.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

FupDup, on 14 April 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:

The fact that it has only 6 hardpoints compared to the 7 of most other Shadows is what turns me off about it...especially because it lacks a ballistic. That shoulder cannon is a big part of what made the Shad so effective compared to the other mediums. It probably won't be bad by virtue of just being a Shad, but I expect the 2D to surpass both it and the 2D2, or the 2D2 will remain as the top dawg of the Shawk lineup.

It'd be a great mech if SRM's start working. 3 SRM 6's and 3 MLas ain't too shabby with the Shadow Hawks hitboxes.

[FupDup]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 April 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

It'd be a great mech if SRM's start working. 3 SRM 6's and 3 MLas ain't too shabby with the Shadow Hawks hitboxes.

The 2D can do that as well, while carrying a shoulder ballistic of your choice.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 15 April 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

The 2D can do that as well, while carrying a shoulder ballistic of your choice.

22 tubes....very nice. If they didn't bounce off.

It makes me sad when that happens. Hopefully today fixes that.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

FupDup, on 15 April 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

The 2D can do that as well, while carrying a shoulder ballistic of your choice.

Not sure I could fit a ballistic in and have it go the speed I'd need.

[3rdworld]

The 2D is going to be better than the 2D2 in everything but SRMs.

1 more energy
+25% torso twist speed & +5% turn rate.

It will replace the 2d2 for the most part.

[FupDup]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 April 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

Not sure I could fit a ballistic in and have it go the speed I'd need.

I personally refuse to drop in my 55 tonners with an engine any higher or lower than an XL300, excluding Kintaros. XL300 seems to give the best blend of speed and weapon space of any engine for the Phoenix mediums. With the weight available you should be able to fit in an Ultra 5, 3 ML, and 3 SSRMs or some smaller SRM racks with a few external DHS to help cool the MLas, while going a respectable 97.2 kph.


EDIT: I played around in Smurfys and produced this: Ghetto 2D
Pretend that the Gauss ammo is a Medium Laser. The downside to this build is that it'll run fairly hot and IMO seems slightly under-engined.

Edited by FupDup, 15 April 2014 - 08:15 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Hans Von Lohman, on 14 April 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

I had been looking forward to this mech for a while. I wanted a PPC shoulder cannon instead of an Autocannon Shadow Hawk. However, now that I know the other energy weapons are not in the arms I am not so sure. It could be a good mech, does have +25% torso twist speed and +5% turning speed, but I still feel like I would have liked to have arm mounted energy. Still, I don't think it will be a bad mech. It is just that I like the 2D better.

Think of it like a 55 ton Jenner that happens to be the size of an Atlas (almost). It won't play any differently. In fact, I'd wager that it'll be that much better because you don't have to worry about trying to sync up your shoulder fire with that from your arms.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

FupDup, on 15 April 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

I personally refuse to drop in my 55 tonners with an engine any higher or lower than an XL300, excluding Kintaros. XL300 seems to give the best blend of speed and weapon space of any engine for the Phoenix mediums. With the weight available you should be able to fit in an Ultra 5, 3 ML, and 3 SSRMs or some smaller SRM racks with a few external DHS to help cool the MLas, while going a respectable 97.2 kph.


EDIT: I played around in Smurfys and produced this: Ghetto 2D
Pretend that the Gauss ammo is a Medium Laser. The downside to this build is that it'll run fairly hot and IMO seems slightly under-engined.

Oh, no I was specifically talking about the trip SRM6 build.

[xengk]

Im interested in the 2K.
Will try to stick 3 PPC in that shoulder just to see how feasible it is as a poptart.
but most likely will go 2 PPC and a pair of ASRM4 or twin LRM5, as a direct support mech.

[FupDup]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 April 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Oh, no I was specifically talking about the trip SRM6 build.

In which case, I guess you can manage to cram that in if you downgrade the AC to an AC/2...the only problem is that a solitary AC/2 is pretty underwhelming, and will be even more so after this patch.

And honestly, if you want a build with just MLas and SRMs you're probably better off with a Griffin or Wolverine. They have enough hardpoints to carry it while also having exponentially better agility (dat twist radius). I'd also argue that the Griffin has somewhat better hitboxes due to larger sides (the Shad's CT seems slightly big, at least to me).

Edited by FupDup, 15 April 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

FupDup, on 15 April 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

In which case, I guess you can manage to cram that in if you downgrade the AC to an AC/2...the only problem is that a solitary AC/2 is pretty underwhelming, and will be even more so after this patch.

And honestly, if you want a build with just MLas and SRMs you're probably better off with a Griffin or Wolverine. They have enough hardpoints to carry it while also having exponentially better agility (dat twist radius). I'd also argue that the Griffin has somewhat better hitboxes due to larger sides (the Shad's CT seems slightly big, at least to me).

Agreed on the agility, but I haven't quite seen the hitbox thing in action, I feel more sturdy in my Hawks for some reason.

[FupDup]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 April 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Agreed on the agility, but I haven't quite seen the hitbox thing in action, I feel more sturdy in my Hawks for some reason.

Part of it might just be that extra agility allowing for better torso twisting rather than actual better hitboxes, I dunno. The Shad is great but it feels like it's wearing a straight jacket when compared to the other Phoenix mediums. If they made a Wolvie or Griffin with Shad hardpoints and typical Wolvie/Griffin agility, it would be game over man. Game over.

[Czardread]

Considering that poptarting is still the competitive meta (even beyond the lrmpocalipse), i think the K is going to be a very powerfull and popular medium, specially in rhod. with that shoulder cannon, sporting 3 ppc or 2 ppc plus back up weapons will make it a deadly sniper (just like in TT).

[Nik Van Rhijn]

The K will probably end up like this;
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cbbee74b5797523
if they fix SRMs then you could do this;
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f000b0c221f24fb