12 replies to this topic

[Warblast]

Hey guys. I don't post often (I've gained a huge amount of experience since my last post), but thought I'd share a build I'm working on for my first assault mech.

First, the ideal build I'm shooting for (please ignore ammo & armor distribution, I was building this on with my phone and didn't want the hassle):
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...958c49ed3c7e86c

XL325
3 ALRM10
2 LPLAS
13 DHS
AMS
BAP
2160 LRMs


Due to what I currently have on hand, I've been running it with XL320, which forces me to put the 13th DHS in the body. This is causing me some free slot headaches as I'm left with more tonnage leftover than slots to fill. To compensate, I've removed the BAP and 1 ton of ammo IIRC.

Still, with the not quite optimized build, I've been hitting pretty good numbers so far in pub matches. Out of the approx 14 games with this loadout, I've had several 600+ dmg matches and a 900+ & 1000+ dmg match.

So, questions/thoughts:

-I'm not SUPER versed on all of the benefits of BAP, but I was hoping it could give me some counter-ecm ability. Is the range on it good enough to help with LRM locks or is it just a waste of space/tonnage? I don't want to sacrifice one of my energy slots for a TAG because that'll severely hurt my point defense.

-Before you question the LPLAS, consider that I'm hitting more constraints on slots than tonnage. So, I arrived at these to get the best bang for my buck regarding damage/slot ratio. I suppose one could argue LLs for better heat efficiency, but with very slow torso twist, I want to get as much laser on target against close range lights as possible. Plus it has allowed me to roll damage around between shots in some really hairy situations.

-Because of the weapons mix, on paper this runs a little hotter than I prefer. In game, though, most situations I encounter warrant either missiles or lasers. When I do get that perfect "midrange enemy trapped in the open with a direct line of site" situations, I've had to exercise restraint on the pulse lasers in order to keep the missiles flying.

-It's a bit early to tell, but despite using an XL engine, I haven't really had survivability issues thus far.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Escef]

That's a LOT of ammo. I run 50 LRM tubes on my BLR-1S with less ammo.

[kesuga7]

so i shaved leg armour - ammo - two large pulse lasers and the double heatsinks and dropped to xl 300


Gauss rifle - 50 shots - 3 LRM 10 artemis - 1260 lrm ammo - TAG - BAP - AMS - 1 jumpjet - 496 armour - 59.4 kph

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...84caeac279434b0



or you could try 2 AC 5 with no AMS but 150 ac 5 ammo and XL 295

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9411694f6c61e12



or a ac 10 - with 1 er large laser - and 1 more double heatsink and no ams still
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6a782bbc4e2da74



or the standard engine version with - 1 ac 10 - 45 shots - 3 lrm 110 artemis - tag - bap - 1 jumpjet - 59.4 kph
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bcd3d08202bd684


you had a good idea with pulses in torso with bad torso twist
and BAP certainly can be helpfull for counter ECM and 25% target lock speed and 25% increased range detection
so BAP will increase your range to 1000 meters the maximum range of lrm's or you could take out bap and put in target info gathering and increased sensor range modules in your mech
also target decay is a vital module for lrm boats

Edited by kesuga7, 19 April 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[Konril]

It's not entirely a bad concept, but the 733C isn't quite the right variant for the job.

The Beagle Active Probe's counter-ECM function is more insurance than directly useful. It can counter ECM out to 150m, which is well below the 180m minimum LRMs have. The reason most missile boats carry it is that it extends the radar range out to 1000m, compared to the 800m range the basic radar has. So either the BAP or the Advanced Sensor module is almost necessary to be able to fully use the range LRMs have. However, the counter-ECM function will make it harder for an ECM brawler or scout to shut you down if he gets behind your team's front lines. Getting jammed by ECM will kill missile locks instantly. So preventing that from happening is important. Also, when you do turn your attention to the harassing scout, it allows nearby teammates to better see what's going on and possibly help you. Two LRM boat with BAP can guard each other from harassing lights very easily.

Unfortunately, what you need to counter enemy ECM for your own LRMs to hit is the TAG laser or the NARC missile system. And since TAG takes an energy mount, that makes the 733C a bad choice with only 2 energy mounts. you would need to buy the 732 or the 733P to get a good mix of close in lasers to use against. On your design, if you dropped a large pulse laser for a TAG, what would you do to fill in the gap?

Here are a couple of things I did with the 733P.
LRM 45 + Artemis & 3 Medium Lasers
LRM 40 + Artemis & 3 Medium Pulse Lasers
LRM 40 + NARC & 3 Medium Pulse Lasers

My 3x Artemis LRM 15 concept ended up being my version 1. 3 medium lasers were useful for self defense, but not really all that much of a deterrent which led me to a version 2 mixing a total of 40 LRMs with 3 Medium Pulse Lasers. The pulse lasers do much better against fast moving lights as they still have that laser accuracy but with quicker results. Trying to aim a laser on a light mech in an assault mech for a whole second is really, really difficult. So the shorter beam duration (and slightly more damage) really helps. The NARC changes in March led to my version 3, which had me pulling the Artemis in favor of a NARC launcher as a test which ended up working very well. Sneaking up to within 450m of a sniper position or an ECM protected Atlas is a bit scary. But a direct hit will kill the ECM for 30 seconds as well as making it much harder for the opponent to hide behind cover. It actually did very well.

[InsertRubiksCube]

Your build looks good to me, but I can't give you a professional opinion because I haven't played this game for about a day. Also, my I ask, how do you build a custom mech? The question has always baffled me.

Never mind, I just figured out how.

[kesuga7]

Konril, on 20 April 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

It's not entirely a bad concept, but the 733C isn't quite the right variant for the job.

The Beagle Active Probe's counter-ECM function is more insurance than directly useful. It can counter ECM out to 150m, which is well below the 180m minimum LRMs have. The reason most missile boats carry it is that it extends the radar range out to 1000m, compared to the 800m range the basic radar has. So either the BAP or the Advanced Sensor module is almost necessary to be able to fully use the range LRMs have. However, the counter-ECM function will make it harder for an ECM brawler or scout to shut you down if he gets behind your team's front lines. Getting jammed by ECM will kill missile locks instantly. So preventing that from happening is important. Also, when you do turn your attention to the harassing scout, it allows nearby teammates to better see what's going on and possibly help you. Two LRM boat with BAP can guard each other from harassing lights very easily.

Unfortunately, what you need to counter enemy ECM for your own LRMs to hit is the TAG laser or the NARC missile system. And since TAG takes an energy mount, that makes the 733C a bad choice with only 2 energy mounts. you would need to buy the 732 or the 733P to get a good mix of close in lasers to use against. On your design, if you dropped a large pulse laser for a TAG, what would you do to fill in the gap?

Here are a couple of things I did with the 733P.
LRM 45 + Artemis & 3 Medium Lasers
LRM 40 + Artemis & 3 Medium Pulse Lasers
LRM 40 + NARC & 3 Medium Pulse Lasers

My 3x Artemis LRM 15 concept ended up being my version 1. 3 medium lasers were useful for self defense, but not really all that much of a deterrent which led me to a version 2 mixing a total of 40 LRMs with 3 Medium Pulse Lasers. The pulse lasers do much better against fast moving lights as they still have that laser accuracy but with quicker results. Trying to aim a laser on a light mech in an assault mech for a whole second is really, really difficult. So the shorter beam duration (and slightly more damage) really helps. The NARC changes in March led to my version 3, which had me pulling the Artemis in favor of a NARC launcher as a test which ended up working very well. Sneaking up to within 450m of a sniper position or an ECM protected Atlas is a bit scary. But a direct hit will kill the ECM for 30 seconds as well as making it much harder for the opponent to hide behind cover. It actually did very well.

hmm you could still fit in artemis in that last narc build and get crazy lrm accuracy if you have line of sight
with 1 ppc and 2 medium lasers for backup
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3a2ab27a6c0b68d
but only 11 doubles


or you could do LRM 35 artemis - with AMS and another jumpjet added but with .50 less armour
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa9dd2be38f5bbb

• downgrade to xl 295 for .50 tonns of armour

or take out the ppc for 3 medium pulse lasers and 3 jumpjets




http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5c2d1493ae1a3be



and finnaly the standard engine version - change the medium pulses to medium lasers and take out 1 tonn of ammo for 3 jumpjets total or upgrade the engine to standard 310

• 58.4 kph - standard 295
  
• 1 lrm 20 artemis - 1 lrm 10 artemis
  
• Narc - 24 shots
  
• TAG
  
• 3 Medium pulse lasers - 11 doubles
  
• AMS
  
• BAP
  
• 1 Jumpjet
  
• 528 armour
  
• 1440 lrm ammo
  
• http://mwo.smurfy-ne...363c44c681949db

Edited by kesuga7, 20 April 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[Konril]

kesuga7, on 20 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

hmm you could still fit in artemis in that last narc build and get crazy lrm accuracy if you have line of sight
with 1 ppc and 2 medium lasers for backup

Actually, no. There is a catch with the Artemis and NARC systems in that their guidance is mutually exclusive. TAG will stack with either to give big bonuses to accuracy. It is true that anybody can benefit from the fact that NARC allows the target to be locked on without line of sight. However, the missile tracking and lock-on speed bonuses of the NARC beacon only apply to standard missiles. Artemis missiles don't get any tracking or lock-on bonuses against NARC afflicted targets. And that means that Artemis missiles will actually have less accuracy than standard guidance missiles after a NARC beacon is attached, especially when the user or target moves behind cover. That breaks the direct line of sight Artemis needs to work.

What makes the Artemis system a worthwhile purchase is the fact that NARC systems are hard to use, heavy, and therefore rarely seen. So the Artemis system has an advantage vs. unassisted LRMs more often than not. But direct line of sight is also very risky. If you can see the enemy, the enemy can also see you. That can be bad news if the enemy has a multiple PPC and AC/5 setup or a Gauss rifle setup.

Study this build of HGN-773C very carefully. This is your enemy.

[Warblast]

Thanks for the input, guys. I have lots of ideas to try out now. After a few days with no replies, I'd stopped checking the thread...

Konril, on 20 April 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

It's not entirely a bad concept, but the 733C isn't quite the right variant for the job.

I think it essentially boils down to this. I'd originally purchased this variant to be a AC20/SRM/ML brawler, but I was having trouble getting to the right situation and positioning to make it effective. With the extra energy hardpoints in the 733P instead of ballistics, I could easily run the same build with an added tag. Or perhaps drop some ammo for larger launchers.

[Kjudoon]

Escef, on 19 April 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

That's a LOT of ammo. I run 50 LRM tubes on my BLR-1S with less ammo.

That's 12 tons of ammo, meaning you get 43 full volleys. My usual formula is 1 ton for every 5 tubes minimum.

How often do ACs carry a similar 'volley' level? pretty frequently for AC10s and 20s for fewer tons.

[Escef]

Kjudoon, on 22 April 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

That's 12 tons of ammo, meaning you get 43 full volleys. My usual formula is 1 ton for every 5 tubes minimum.

How often do ACs carry a similar 'volley' level? pretty frequently for AC10s and 20s for fewer tons.

I run 9 tons of ammo for 50 tubes. That's just over 32 full volleys. For AC10 the standard is 2 tons of ammo, 30 shots, for AC20 3 to 4 tons, 21 or 28 shots. No one that knows what they're doing packs 40+ shots for a single cannon.

[NupetietV]

This is how you do it, go all out:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...07883d5347c25f2

[Warblast]

I've actually settled on this mixed long-range loadout for now:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...90262459bb69d9a
-xl325
-13 DHS
-2 ALRM 10's - 720 ammo
-Gauss Rifle - 30 ammo
-2 ER LL
-BAP

It takes a bit of getting used to, but essentially, when you've got line of sight, you hold down the lrms for constant chain fire and alternate the Gauss and ER LL's. It'll make just about anyone second-guess their position and duck for cover. When it starts heating up after a few full volleys, stop firing the lasers and it should stay pretty much heat neutral. Pairs well with Adv Target Decay and Adv Zoom modules.

NupetietV, on 29 April 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

This is how you do it, go all out:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...07883d5347c25f2

Heh, I like your thinking. Too bad I don't have that variant yet.

[Koniving]

Prefer LRMs on my 733 than the 733c.