470 replies to this topic

[zudukai]

aniviron, on 19 April 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

; they do nothing badly.

except need vulnerable ammo...

[Mcgral18]

zudukai, on 19 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

except need vulnerable ammo...

The game says 10% chance. In reality, it's closer to 3% chance of explosion due to how many crit slots and the fact you need to get that crit when you destroy the ammo. Less of an issue with anything that deals 10 damage, but the "crit seeking" weapons suck balls at doing that.

[FireSlade]

zudukai, on 19 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

except need vulnerable ammo...

That would be a viable excuse if that was a threat. Play 100 matches with lots of ballistic ammo (5-7 tons worth) and I bet around 2-3 times (probably less) you die due to ammo explosions. Where is the threat to balance out all the perks to ballistics (low heat, lower damage drop off, further ranges, front loaded damage, pinpoint accuracy, etc.)? Now if you had a 50% chance with ammo being destroyed, or having high heat levels, that it would cook off then yes that would balance everything out nicely. "Want really good weapons? Well it might earn you an early grave like XL engines do."

[Cimarb]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 April 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

nothing to debate, all weapons being the same mechanism is just boring. I don't wanna play Papercut Warrior Online, no thanks.

You are assuming that burst-fire ballistics would use the "same mechanism" as other weapon systems, which is completely false. No weapon currently uses a burst-fire mechanic, and only lasers, MGs and flamers currently use the same damage delivery (duration spread).

LRMs use the "same mechanism" of damage delivery - area spread - as SRMs, yet they are highly different systems in use and implementation. LBX10s are also area spread, but I don't think anyone would agree that they are anything close to LRMs.

LRMs may cause papercuts, but I think they are pretty potent when used correctly, even though each missile only does 1.1 damage by itself... the same would be true of burst-fire autocannons.

[zagibu]

Give the ballistics recoil and reduce their damage based on the angle they hit at. These two things would help to balance them.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cimarb, on 19 April 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

You are assuming that burst-fire ballistics would use the "same mechanism" as other weapon systems, which is completely false. No weapon currently uses a burst-fire mechanic, and only lasers, MGs and flamers currently use the same damage delivery (duration spread).

LRMs use the "same mechanism" of damage delivery - area spread - as SRMs, yet they are highly different systems in use and implementation. LBX10s are also area spread, but I don't think anyone would agree that they are anything close to LRMs.

LRMs may cause papercuts, but I think they are pretty potent when used correctly, even though each missile only does 1.1 damage by itself... the same would be true of burst-fire autocannons.

You do realize that "burst fire" is a pretty cosmetic for DoT in games yes? And lasers are too. The mechanism is the same, damage spread over time, thus spreadable. Giving it pretty window dressing doesn't change that.

101 likes...almost as happy as my Nightwish Fan Video breaking 1 million views this month.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 19 April 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

The game says 10% chance. In reality, it's closer to 3% chance of explosion due to how many crit slots and the fact you need to get that crit when you destroy the ammo. Less of an issue with anything that deals 10 damage, but the "crit seeking" weapons suck balls at doing that.

I want to agree with that... but gotta say my 4MG ember cooks off a lot of ammo. Not sure about any other builds though.

zagibu, on 19 April 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

Give the ballistics recoil and reduce their damage based on the angle they hit at. These two things would help to balance them.

we really trust PGI to be able to code that?

[Cimarb]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 April 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

You do realize that "burst fire" is a pretty cosmetic for DoT in games yes? And lasers are too. The mechanism is the same, damage spread over time, thus spreadable. Giving it pretty window dressing doesn't change that.

101 likes...almost as happy as my Nightwish Fan Video breaking 1 million views this month.

Giving the K2 "pretty window dressing" wouldn't change it's success in a match, but you are fighting quite hard for it

Technically, though, a DoT is an attack that is applied to an enemy and then continues to do damage without additional attacks needed. This would be a great way to make flamers or napalm LRMs, where you would do damage to the target and it would continue to burn for a few seconds.

Burst-fire autocannons are not DoTs any more than the current autocannons, PPCs and whatever are. They all do damage upon impact, and nothing after, which is "direct damage".

[Bishop Steiner]

Cimarb, on 19 April 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

Giving the K2 "pretty window dressing" wouldn't change it's success in a match, but you are fighting quite hard for it

Technically, though, a DoT is an attack that is applied to an enemy and then continues to do damage without additional attacks needed. This would be a great way to make flamers or napalm LRMs, where you would do damage to the target and it would continue to burn for a few seconds.

Burst-fire autocannons are not DoTs any more than the current autocannons, PPCs and whatever are. They all do damage upon impact, and nothing after, which is "direct damage".

define burst fire...it is multiple projectiles, yes? Hence, it;s DoT unless they are all damaging at once?

[Nemesis Wolf]

Ok.. As much as I hate to say it.. Asthetically I do like the bigger ones, but honestly the Bigger ones look more like AC 20's. The Smaller one does suit the PPC Better even though it is a little....skimpy. Which is likely what they were thinking when they changed it.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 April 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

define burst fire...it is multiple projectiles, yes? Hence, it;s DoT unless they are all damaging at once?

Well, my view of the AC20 burst is 4 shots doing 5 damage over .4 or so seconds. Same projectiles, (though likely faster) which will still total 20 damage, but it gives a chance for that damage to be spread.

Of course, there are many views on this subject.

[Grey Ghost]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 April 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Why can't we just treat the old arm cannons as part of the Mech's chassis instead. Instead of having the new PPC barrel sticking out like it does on every Mech, have it be housed inside it. Then maybe have the same with the Laser Lenses as well. There can ever only be one weapon at a time in them anyhow. Flamers & whatever could still use the newer arms.

[FireSlade]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 April 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

101 likes...almost as happy as my Nightwish Fan Video breaking 1 million views this month.

Please say that it is not one with Anette. I have not seen their new stuff so the verdict is still out with Floor.

[Bishop Steiner]

FireSlade, on 19 April 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

Please say that it is not one with Anette. I have not seen their new stuff so the verdict is still out with Floor.

Actually, I rather liked Anette. Sorry. No, it was this one

and early picture video I did to teach myself to use Windows MovieMaker
for some reason my much better video doesn't get the views

[zudukai]

Mcgral18, on 19 April 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Well, my view of the AC20 burst is 4 shots doing 5 damage over .4 or so seconds. Same projectiles, (though likely faster) which will still total 20 damage, but it gives a chance for that damage to be spread.

Of course, there are many views on this subject.

shown here are Ultra AC2's

these Ultra AC fires a pair of shots over 0.25 seconds,

this is the idea pitched queaff?

Edited by zudukai, 19 April 2014 - 10:53 PM.

[Tetra One]

A thread asking for bigger hitboxes?!

Cool...

(Not a K2/Jester pilot )

[Bishop Steiner]

Tetra One, on 20 April 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

A thread asking for bigger hitboxes?!

Cool...

(Not a K2/Jester pilot )

Lolz, One thing you should know, if you want to live a long prosperous life as a Mechwarrior. Large Arms are exactly where you want bigger hit boxes. Makes it easier to absorb damage that would otherwise kill you. And the difference is pretty minor to begin with.

[Dauphni]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Lolz, One thing you should know, if you want to live a long prosperous life as a Mechwarrior. Large Arms are exactly where you want bigger hit boxes. Makes it easier to absorb damage that would otherwise kill you. And the difference is pretty minor to begin with.

While that is generally true, it doesn't really work like that for the Catapults. The arms are up so high that they provide negligible cover to the mech's central mass, which is where most of the damage usually goes. They might soak a few stray hits, but unless you're specifically aiming for them you're unlikely to seriously damage them. That is especially true for the energy arms, the missile boxes are a little easier to take off.

[Tetra One]

Yeah and I kinda want to keep my main weapons for as long as possible....main reason i do not pilot cats...ears are so easy to take off...and main reason i go for them first (except dual ac20/gauss)...

[Jin Ma]

lol wow 100 likes already. WTF

I couldn't like this thread enough.. cuz theres only 1 like button

Edited by Jin Ma, 20 April 2014 - 08:04 AM.