19 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

So this might sound heretical but hear me out.

Do away with front and rear armor, make it one figure that is affected by both. Still have Side/Center Torsos, but now no armor split between the front and back.

Why?

1) Simplicity.
2) Hit registration has been borked anyways from the very beginning. How many have noticed hits to the back registering on the front or vice versa?

Why not?

1) LORE!
2) MOAR LORE!

Thoughts?

[Durant Carlyle]

Might as well just go all the way and have one big pile of hit points.

[Corwin Vickers]

Hawken?

[CDLord HHGD]

Corwin Vickers, on 21 April 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Hawken?

Ich, never played Hawken... Never had any desire to... So no, no inspiration from that.

[OneEyed Jack]

Durant Carlyle, on 21 April 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Might as well just go all the way and have one big pile of hit points.

I guess it would finally fix the pinpoint convergence issue....

[Novakaine]

NOPE.

[Koniving]

Lore and lore....haven't really got anything to do with merging front/back armor. Quite the opposite.

Hit detection issues are borked because mechs are too fast for the netcode to handle the HSR demands at high speed. That and too many explosion calls in a single frame causing the game to queue the left over explosions in sequential frames where the target has moved. (Easy fix for this, have missiles fire in streams instead of all at once).

Of course, an also easy fix is to stop pushing mechs to obscene speeds that the mechs were not meant to do and instead use other things such as shifting weapon designs from instant damage to DPS designs to balance it out while working within the netcode limitations.

[CDLord HHGD]

Koniving, on 21 April 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Lore and lore....haven't really got anything to do with merging front/back armor. Quite the opposite.

Hit detection issues are borked because mechs are too fast for the netcode to handle the HSR demands at high speed. That and too many explosion calls in a single frame causing the game to queue the left over explosions in sequential frames where the target has moved. (Easy fix for this, have missiles fire in streams instead of all at once).

Of course, an also easy fix is to stop pushing mechs to obscene speeds that the mechs were not meant to do and instead use other things such as shifting weapon designs from instant damage to DPS designs to balance it out while working within the netcode limitations.

I'm pretty sure my atlas and the enemy atlas weren't traveling at break-neck speeds.....

[Navy Sixes]

Corwin Vickers, on 21 April 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Hawken?

Yeah. This sounds cool until you die taking an alpha-strike to the toe.

[CheeseThief]

I think this thread is a cunningly disguised nerf thread about light mechs and flanking.

[Fooooo]

Front and rear armor add to the game imo.


It means getting behind someone gives you an advantage. (if they dont use 50/50 armor spread.......and who does that ? ... I guess that also adds to the target to.....if you put more armor on the rear your less susceptible to someone getting behind you etc.....)

It means getting there is worth it. (more than just not taking fire from the target yourself.)

I've had plenty of games where me and someone else have snuck behind multiple atlas's and knocked them both out in seconds before they knew wtf was going on.... I'd hate to have this taken away.....

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Doing this would nearly eliminate a whole suite of tactics and would seriously harm gameplay.

As for the buggy hit registration transferring hits to the rear, the upcoming explosion fix should remove most of those cases. There could well be lingering HSR issues that could result in rear armor hits from the front, but most of what I see is when a volley of missiles explode in waves and some of them blow behind the target instead of where they should be. That should no longer happen once the 29th patch goes live.

[OneEyed Jack]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 21 April 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

Doing this would nearly eliminate a whole suite of tactics and would seriously harm gameplay.

As for the buggy hit registration transferring hits to the rear, the upcoming explosion fix should remove most of those cases. There could well be lingering HSR issues that could result in rear armor hits from the front, but most of what I see is when a volley of missiles explode in waves and some of them blow behind the target instead of where they should be. That should no longer happen once the 29th patch goes live.

All the times I've noticed it, as in known for sure that a hit on one side was applied to the other, it was a high velocity, non-explosive such as PPC or Gauss.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

OneEyed Jack, on 21 April 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

All the times I've noticed it, as in known for sure that a hit on one side was applied to the other, it was a high velocity, non-explosive such as PPC or Gauss.

I know they were doing that a few months back (or more), but I haven't seen much of it recently. I do recall having seen SRMs specifically blast the front, then the rear, and then the rock behind an assault I was shooting at this past weekend (I think I was in a Centurion, but I'm not entirely sure). The same behavior happened a few different times.

[sgt kiesel]

the OP's suggestion would fix absolutely nothing, and make the effectiveness of lights and some mediums drop into the toilet...

Those hits to the front armor from the back that magically hit the front are shots that missed the rear armor weakpoints entirely and hit the side of the front hitboxes.
I cant think of a single time my rear armor has ever been hit from the front.

Koniving, on 21 April 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Of course, an also easy fix is to stop pushing mechs to obscene speeds that the mechs were not meant to do

The fastest mech in 3025 was a 30t 9/14 mech with a large laser. i.e. 151.2kph with a STANDARD, and there were several mechs that went 129.6. The fastest mech in 3050 went 162kmh with a boost mode of 216kph with 2ml and 10SRM (the primary light mech of clan ghost bear). The fastest mech in 3055 went 248.4kph. And a locust variant in 3067 topped 302.4 with a 280xl engine and MASC.

Edited by sgt kiesel, 21 April 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

sgt kiesel, on 21 April 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

I cant think of a single time my rear armor has ever been hit from the front.

I can. I can clearly recall one incident in which a rather long-range Gauss shot struck me square in the front CT on an Atlas. I saw exactly where it came from and watched it streak toward me until it disappeared just below my cockpit, then impacted. It was the very first hit I took. I had never to that point had my back pointed even vaguely toward the origin of the shot, since it was near the beginning of the match and I'd been moving forward. Every bit of the damage was applied to my Rear CT. Rather upsetting, considering the difference in armor.

There have been others that I noticed, but that's the one that sticks out most in my mind.

[Wildflame]

Why not?

1) It reduces the skill differential between a bad, decent, and great player.

2) Hit registration being bad is a reason to complain to PGI, not to destroy other game mechanics.

The 'fix' is simple and requires zero coding:

Whine to PGI. In the meantime:

1) Learn to guard your back; or

2) Allocate more armour there, and learn to avoid facetanking the enemy team with your weakened front armour.

I have occasionally piloted 'Mechs with 1 point of armour on the rear torsos - to good effect. The better you get at protecting your rear, the more armour you can dedicate to facetanking your foes. (Of course, the better you get at flanking, setting up x:1 engagements in your favour etc, the less facetanking you will need to do in the first place.)

A short guide for armour allocation: every time you die to a rear torso shot while you still have front armour, add 1 point of armour to that rear torso (do both in the case of side torsos). Every time you die to a front shot while still having rear armour, add 1 point of armour to the front. Eventually you should get to a point where you are vacillating in a 3 point range or so, and then you can stop tinkering and be confident that for your play style you have the right armour allocation.

I anticipate this perspective will bring retorts of 'better armour allocation cannot fix gauss shots magicking through my 'Mech!' which is true. But I repeat that such is a problem for PGI to fix at their end, not a fundamental flaw in game mechanics.

[Corwin Vickers]

Not all rear shots from the front are due to bad netcode. Some mechs just have weird hitboxes on certain locations.

Oh, and Hawken has 1 hit location with all your hit points so what you are suggesting basically already exists in another game.

[ArmandTulsen]

Quote

I guess it would finally fix the pinpoint convergence issue....

DON'T GIVE THEM BAD IDEAS!!! WE HAVE ENOUGH OF THOSE!!!

:/

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 22 April 2014 - 01:05 AM.

[Impyrium]

Corwin Vickers, on 21 April 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

Not all rear shots from the front are due to bad netcode. Some mechs just have weird hitboxes on certain locations.

Oh, and Hawken has 1 hit location with all your hit points so what you are suggesting basically already exists in another game.

Agreed, 'Mechs have odd hitboxes, especially on extended limbs, that trigger rear hits. Technically they ARE rear hits, but the damage HUD sorta implicates a rear hit HAS to be a direct hit from the rear, when in reality it's only designating a separate armour section situated opposite to the main body of armour.