127 replies to this topic

[SjurWarEagle]

AllSpark, on 21 April 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

When I'm experiencing a stomp my goal switches from winning the game into just getting a kill and staying alive as long as possible and when I succeed I still walk out of the game with a grin on my face. If I get stomped and I I did good compared to other members on the blue team, I still consider it a personal win. I did what I could in a bad situation.

So I guess my advise here is that you should focus more on your own improvement as a Mech pilot and not so much at winning and losing games, that attitude keeps me enjoying MWO.

Same for me, but at the moment it's very hard to be motivated, I would guess about 75% of my games are 12-<3 (either lost or win) the games are slaughterhouses, but no fun, even if I'm on the winning side.
I had several games where my assault wasn't wast enough to even do damage....

[Roosterfish]

Onyxian, understand up front that the MM is designed to keep you at a 1/1 win/loss ratio. We always remember what we consider bad easier than what we consider good. Also you're not alone, I have what at the time seems losing streaks but I also have winning streaks but the winning don't seem as long as the losing.

One day this past weekend while grinding my x2's on my missile boats I got stuck on my Cat C1, I had 10 losses straight. After the 10th loss I went on to my Cat A1, got a win first try then went back to the C1 and got my win first game on the second try.

Get multiple classes of mechs. If you're in a slump on a mech even if it's your favorite try another. Maybe it's just not your day for that mech, it's playstyle, or some gypsy crone gave that mech the evil eye. If your brawling is off try sniping, if your sniping can't hit a Catapult's CT then try lobbing some missiles.

Sadly if you're just pugging sure you're on a team but you're not necessarily part of a team. You have to change your mindset about the whole win/loss thing. Set yourself goals and if you achieve it you win, if you normally do 200 damage then set 250 damage regularly as your next goal, or if you pilot a Wang and you lose that arm before you've shot your load then the goal would be going dusty before you lose that BFG. The goal could be anything you decide you want to work on.

If a certain weapon system, mech, or playstyle gets you play one. Yup, learn how to counter it by playing one of them. Don't get stuck in that same old rutt.

Lot's of these guys have been playing this game almost 3 years so they know the weapons, mechs, builds, maps, and strategery inside and out. Be wilier than a fox, slicker than a snake, and as mean as a cornered badger with his tail on fire. Don't be scared to get the paint scratched on your mech.

Finally go kill some rubes for the Rooster.

[HighTest]

Koniving, on 21 April 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Lately between college (getting into game design) and various other things (DayZ, State of Decay, trying to get Skyrim to work with just the right set of mods for performance yet amazing graphics while recording) my play time on MWO has been reduced to about 3 hours a day and typically at late night when matchmaker is at its 'worst' (2 and 5 AM).

Honestly if ELO goes by wins/losses, mine can't be that great.
W/L Archived 4,305 / 3,907 (since the to me unannounced stat wipe in February 2013; only noticed it because most of my mechs had no record of being played when I've put days worth of playtime into them)
W/L Current 136 / 94

Spoiler

I play those times because I genuinely miss when I never knew what I was up against and that's when matchmaker has very little to work with and thus the matches are as eschewed as possible. 3/3/3/3 may help a lot of new players but it is going to ruin the game for me; like many I'm holding out hoping that the "Unit Life" element of Community Warfare removes this restriction in favor of actual tonnage-limits in matches where the number of Dropships or forces you left at a Garrison you have determine what you can actually bring. Hopefully with the reinforcements (secondary mech limited 'respawn') thing pushed out to us so long ago.

(Signature, left link for more with the use of a little scenario).

Ah -- so you probably aren't on much during my usual Tues/Thurs 9-11pm EST stints. Makes sense. I do get on randomly at other times, but it's exactly that -- random. My W/L is 89/69 since the reset, but my pre-reset numbers still suck due to the abysmal start I got off to in this game. (Yes, I do feel for all new MWO players having trouble, since I was one of them...)

I too am not sure that the 3/3/3/3 system is going to work. Frankly:

- it's likely going to 'force' people to take mechs that they don't want to take just to find a match
- How do you split up a 3/3/3/3 lance tactically into 4/4/4 lances? That would mean 3 lights would need to run with a medium to scout. And 3 assaults would get stuck with some sort of heavy. Oh well, who needs canon lances anyway, I guess.

Besides, I've watched many good light-mech wolfpacks mow down an entire 12-man team pretty much by themselves. If people think that better weight matching will reduce the ROFLstomps, well, I have some prime swampland in Florida for sale...

** edit - spelling

Edited by HighTest, 21 April 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[Koniving]

Well, technically the Shadowhawk is supposed to be a very lightly armored "forward recon" and "spotter" for a heavy lance. It's right on the Sarna description.

Wolverines are usually command mechs for medium and light lances.

Some mechs, like the Atlas K, are clearly built by stock and lore to support long range mechs instead of getting into the brawl (i.e. escort some heavies dedicated to missiles).

Mixed lances work surprisingly well, such as this video with these 2 heavies (Catapult and Dragon) and 2 mediums (Hunchback and Hunchback) versus 6 Atlas D-DCs, 1 Awesome, and 1 Raven 3-L with no cover in a circle of death (with the 2 heavies and 2 mediums in the middle) and win. (Our assault lance gets one disconnect, and the 3 of us assaults get killed very quickly).

Edit: Added Sarna description link.

Edited by Koniving, 21 April 2014 - 11:50 AM.

[HighTest]

Nice video. An oldie, but a goodie. It's a great demonstration about how weight doesn't matter as much as pilot skill.

I have to say, though ... Shards' piloting is enough to make me seasick.

[Noxcuse]

elo and matchmakert are not working..and all the nice postings´s from devs are only to hold done the players hate..
i dont know what the devs are coding but nothing real working.....PGI use your brain..and fix your problems..or the player will go away..

[Daekar]

I'm beginning to think that the Elo system doesn't do squat. I lose constantly, and I still get put in the same drops as Phil and the rest of the NGNG folks when they do the official IGP stream. I've watched that stream, so I know how good they are. In no world, ever, in any way, am I near that good. Period. The fact that I'm getting matched with them is an indicator that they might as well just randomize things.

3/3/3/3 will help, but until Elo actually does something, the OPs experience will continue.

[Monsoon]

Without reading all the posts after the initial, all I can say it 'wait' to see how the things are once the Launch Module is patched in and groups are limited to the 3/3/3/3 set up.

Otherwise, even though you've stated your opinions on 'grouping' up, this might be the way to go, if you're always getting stomped. When your regular group isn't around, then drop on one of the numerous servers out there, ie. NGNG, Comstar NA/EU or House Davion, Marik, etc... there's usually a LFG channel on any of them. You may say that it shouldn't be required, but until they add VOIP, (which many of us are pushing for) it'll still be your best bet.



P.S. Also, you just might be having horrendous luck, I did 20 drops on the weekend, all PUGs and was on the winning side for 15 of those drops. Sometimes, it seems, lady luck likes to take a dump in your hat and other days, she can do no wrong...

Edited by Monsoon, 21 April 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[Creovex]

@OP

I think you need to step back and forget about wins. This game will piss you off if you are new and pugging and you start to believe the game sucks because you lose every round. The view your should be looking at is the "other stats".

As a newer player you should master the following in this order for stats (forgetting K/D and win/loss)

• Master the art of "spotting" - It adds up and helps you learn to hold locks and maneuver your mech. Try to get more and more each round. (that will show you how you are getting better regardless of the w/l
  
• Master the art of the "assist" - As you find yourself getting more and more a match, you can confidently tell yourself you are getting better at accessing targets, working out the ranging of weapons and
  
• Master the art of "component destruction" - This is similar to assists yet more skilled. As you get more and more you can become very confident in your aiming/targeting methodologies.
  
• Optional: Capture is easy but learning when to hold and when to run is important
  
• Finally, you can start working on your K/D.
  
• Once you have mastered all these and are doing well on each, you can then start worrying about if wins/loss ratio.

Honestly, you will lose on average 6 out of 10 matches. And yes getting into a premade can be annoying but at the same ;time, you can always leave the match early and go fire off another or watch and learn some great tactics.

Overall: Nobody likes losing a match, but as a pug, try to get your individual stats first...

[Bigbacon]

part of the problem is, no one talks, even using chat and if people do use chat, very few listen. I spend a good amount of time in most rounds just spurting out what is going on where to alert people and half they time no one reacts and they get flanked by a lance of heavies and our 6 mech lead dwindles to a loss.

though at the same time, there are plenty of rounds where no one talks yet everyone seems to be on the same page in terms of the strategy.

[Shatterpoint]

If you're not dropping with a coordinated team using voice chat then you're lone wolf, don't let the 11 blue guys make you think otherwise. When you're lucky someone might bind a semi functional team together or they'll do things that help you out but don't rely on it.

Best advice from me (aside from group drops if you're into that) is to use the rest of the team to your advantage, learn their deficiencies and make them work to your advantage.
Generally speaking:
*They're a map wide bonus sensor system for your mech, when they're targetting things you're seeing them so be aware.
*They'll shoot at anything moving inside a big red reticule, lead things their way and they'll fire wildly at it.
*You're only piloting one type of mech (light,assault etc.) it can't do everything so don't expect it to. Know what's on your team and stick with the ones that you need..In an assault? stick near things that can kill lights..In a light? stick near big guns that do the damage you can't while being a bigger threat than you are.

Basic things like that will help you a lot, it's selfish but so is your average pug.
Somewhat related to that, help your team as much as you can..just because they're not being epic team mates doesn't mean let them die. Each one of them that dies is added threat to you, if you see an assault in trouble to a light try to help, target that LRM boat that's destroying your big boys so they can try fighting back.

As you become a better pilot and learn the mechs/weapons you like it's easier to make a big impact that turns the tide, if you reach the point where you can solo drop 2-3 problem targets then your team is more likely to be the one stomping.

Everything else aside, it's MWO and you're going to get roflstomped a lot..it's a nut up or shut up game. I probably hate this game more than I love it 80% of the time but that 20% is so damn cool I keep headbutting the wall.

[CCC Dober]

Bigbacon, on 21 April 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

...
though at the same time, there are plenty of rounds where no one talks yet everyone seems to be on the same page in terms of the strategy.

I love games like that. At times like this, a sliver of hope shows up on the MWO horizon. When people just know their stuff and seemingly everybody is in the zone. It's when I start to think that comms are overrated. Pulling a win without the need for commands or comments? Bad ass =)

[Tereva]

@ OP

I am a new player myself, here are some basic advices that you might find useful.

While all the advices you got are great, I believe new players should not try to reproduce what experienced players do. Like everything else you need to learn the rope. Here is a way that -I believe- let you learn while having an impact on the game :

1. Learn how to control your mech (obvious I know)
Grab the trial Jenner and load "Canyon Network" in "Training ground" (the place where you are alone with unmoving targets).
Then do the following :
- go full speed, without stopping
- when you meet one of the stationary target, engage it, still without stopping , and try to hit always the same leg

Like this you will learn how to control your mech, know at all time where your legs are, and teach you how to aim.

2. When you fell very confident about the way you are controlling your mech, jump in a real game, still using the trial jenner, and do the following :

a. Find a big fat slow assault (the best being a Atlas with EMC)
b. Stay behind him a bit on one side ( make sure he can back up anytime)
c. wait
d. wait again : this is important. forget about scouting, forget about zapping in the middle of the red team, just watch the butt of that big boy for the moment
e. Eventually he will meet some red guys, and here wait again (I know) until they start exchanging fire
f. Then take opportunity shots (they should be busy shooting at each other and hopefully nobody will look at you).
g. If someone get close to your big friend, hit it as hard as you can.
h. Be careful not to chase anybody too far, just stay close to your big bro.
i. If he gets jumped by 6 guys and he is about to die horribly, just abandon him (he is driving an assault after all, he should know what he is doing ), run away, and find another big blue to be friend with

Why doing so ?
- It's easy (or let say easier)
- you are helping one of your strongest ally, so you are having an impact
- you last longer in the game : more impact (and way more fun too)
- The Jenner is fast so you can relocate easily if you do a mistake

3. When you get a hack of it
You can try the same thing with the trial Hunchback (slower, but more power) & do some scouting with the Jenner, again stay close to the big boy you choose, but run a bit in front at the beginning, and retreat as soon as you seen something, without even trying to fire at him.


Do not concentrate too much about win/lose rate.
I had some game where I did nothing and my team win, and some where I have 3 kills do over 400 damage and lose 12/3. the trick is to enjoy it as long as you got a good fight even if you get rolled.

hope this help

Tereva

Edited by Tereva, 21 April 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[maniacos]

Redshift2k5, on 21 April 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

I know it can be frustrating! Here are a few things to keep in mind.

Just because a match is a stomp does not mean the matchmaker failed.

He wrote about "10 straight games of 0-12,1-12,0-12,0-12,2-12,1-12,0-12,2-12,4-12(!),1-12,1-12,1-12." thats a tiny bit more than "a match".

I experienced the same. I have days, where I lose 10 games in a row then other I lose 6, 7, 8 of 10. Statistically, if the matchmaker would be fair and not totally bugged, one should have an average of 5 wins 5 loses, even if I am the worst player on earth and shot down as soon as I engage, it is totally impossible to lose that many games in a row if the matching was really equal.

I wrote that in the other thread already but this got ignored, so its good to see, that I am not the only one who experiences this. Sometime I feel like I am piloting alone against 3 lances that coordinate via voice, you never see them alone, you can never pick one out they are smoothly organized while my team runs around in blind chaos. And not only one game, no, several times in a row. Prematched teams should only go against other prematched teams and random teams should always be random. Also the XP maybe should more count the shot, hit and damage taken-ratio because this is totally disbalanced and it frustrates very soon when you have days where you only lose.

[Gorgo7]

Tereva

Its not a question of luck, its a question of the learning curve. This game has a high learning curve and it can take a LARGE number of games to get the skills necessary to even be a passable pilot.
Then you you have to learn shooting skills, simple tactics like not to crowd your own team-mates at corners, targeting the enemy ®, fire and maneuver...the list is endless.
Further, playing with other players effectively is an entirely different kind of beast. It takes practice and time and training. Not necessarily regimented training (although that is one angle) but a familiarity type of training that comes with playing with the same players time and again.
This is not a game to be mastered in a week or month or a thousand games...you can pug and lots of people claim that that is what they do but the fact is the sooner you play with others that you communicate with regularly the faster you will progress and the sooner you will enjoy, especially in company.

Try the LoneWolf server, it's free, it's friendly, it's commitment free.
Otherwise the game sounds like it is not for you. Come back later when it is more developed.

Good Luck!

[Duncan Longwood]

I wanted to do the challenge in the small hours Saturday morning, but I had a 60 ping and everyone else had close to 200 and my teams got consistently rolled(won 2, lost 8). So I quit, knowing that ping discrepancies tend to hurt the guy with the better ping in this game. Fired up the game on Saturday afternoon and everyone had pings closer to mine and I picked up my Tbolt with ease, winning 5 of the 6 matches I played. My playstyle didn't change and I dropped in the same mechs, but WHEN I was playing made all the difference.

Do you always sit down to play MWO at the same time of day?

[Flaming oblivion]

I have to a agree the fact premade teams can face PuGs was a disastrous decision and the longer it stays this way the more it will hurt mwo.

Even with 3/3/3/3 even if they balanced elo better, even if they made every weapon and mech exactly the same , PuGs getting put up against pre made teams would still be extremely damaging to the game.

[Okami Wolfsong]

it also helps to drop with people in groups so you know what your getting ... yesterday in my quest for the mighty free mech i was averageing about a 1 win per 20 games ... get a group drop together got the free mech in about 40 min.

being a light fighter or LRM boat i tend to not see a high damage rate but you get the support and things really do turn around

want to drop together just add me to your friends list

[Koniving]

Jherej, you have encountered one of two things.
Either you encountered Alpha lance (the larger premade group on the team), or quite potentially there's someone on the other side who took charge. It does not happen so much in higher elements of matchmaker, but in the earlier ones the players are usually very new and very cooperative.

This the best example I have on video (pugging commander), but I've had matches with even better outcomes from taking command.

One such match I saw a familiar face from my merc unit on the enemy team while pugging (dropping solo). I'm in Alpha lance. I asked him, "Hey there, you alone or got a group?" "Group, 4." None of them are faces I know, so they're with the Steiner unit he also drops with. That meant assault mechs. We had mostly heavies, mediums and lights. I'm quite literally the only assault and I'm in a Highlander 733 designed as a missile boat. Bad situation to start with. So I asked Alpha lance "Do we have a premade?". We had a group of 2 + me and a disconnect. Asked Bravo. "Bravo, premade?" No other groups on our team. (If there isn't one in Bravo then Charlie will not have one). So I took command. "Listen up, we know the other side has a group and we've only got a two man. We've also got 2 D/C's. I know who it is and chances are they've Sniper's Ridge." (We're on Alpine; it's the large mountain in the middle-ish closest to their side.) I told our guys if we engaged them there we'd have no chance. I assigned locational orders, I had them rush out across the lowest end of the mountain toward a series of two sections of cover.

I chose this area because we had two layers of mech-height unclimbable cover. Most of their mechs were not jump capable and the ones that were quickly fell into our trap when the time came. It took 4 minutes, but the enemy left their position (unable to fight us from there) and charged at us. They kept trying to breach north and south. I assigned myself and Alpha to the North, Charlie and Bravo were alternated between South and center. Instructions that anyone in ranged Jagermechs or Blackjacks get behind the second line and hill hump (it could be climbed, unlike the main hill, giving them the height needed to shoot at them and the ease of escaping when needed.

The fight lasted 9-ish minutes. By the end of it while we did have some badly wounded mechs and many out of ammunition, we lost 4 players -- one who didn't cooperate and died for it (and the whole time told us how stupid we were until he quit) and a few who were guarding the line. With no LRMs left in my LRM boat Highlander (733), I raised my single AC/2 and ML and led the charge near the end. The entire enemy team was wiped out.

My unit mate on the other team couldn't believe it. As adversaries they outdid us in tonnage, outdid us in weapons, and originally outdid us by getting to the meta position. However we took them away from there, fought on our terms, and his team had no communication aside from his group and no one was coordinating their side. Later he told me, "I felt like I was playing against a 12, well 10 man premade. We tried everything but it was too well guarded. No locks for missiles. No line of sight for the guns. All we could do is try to edge the corners and SPLAT! We'd lose another one."

Edited by Koniving, 21 April 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

PitchBlackYeti, on 21 April 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

This is my first post on the forum, so hello everyone. Now back to topic, I came to the forum looking to vent about the same problem. The 0-12 or 2-12 losing streaks are starting to piss the living hell out of me. I have started playing MWO about 2 weeks ago to take a break from World of Tanks. Now in WoT, people complain about the MM constantly, but I tell you its NOWHERE as bad as this. I've had maybe 2-3 games thet were really close shave, most of the time it's just lolstomp for one team or the other. I know I'm just a beginner but I'm familiar with the Battletech system and also doing quite well in WoT. I'm also aware that PGI is attempting to tweak the MM to group players by their skill but so far it doesn't seem to be working at all.

I think in WoT it's easier for one or two great players to pull things back. If you are in the right tank read:heavy you can avoid taking damage completely through good angling.
I find players on MWO to be much more timid and cowardly than WoT, but WoT playerbase is generally more tactically unaware.
Also MWO has a much steeper learning curve than WoT has and you need your team mates more, so if you get bad ones the problem can be that bit worse. I've been having a monstrous losing streak ( was 70 games +, now just 13 or so-in ONE week) lately with some frankly shockingly bad numbers from team mates.
But that is life in online gaming.
If the op don't like it, then try something else till he/she likes what they find. But be prepared op for this to happen in every online game you play......WoT and Warthunder are my other two games and each playerbase can shock you in it's own way.