53 replies to this topic

[Bhael Fire]

Turrets have no place in Assault. They belong in Attack/Defend mode where one side has to attack the defender's base — which is more of a permanent structure instead of mobile command unit.

It's dumbed Assault down to basically Skirmish mode by removing the need to keep an eye on your base. In other words, it's made it less tactical.

[OneEyed Jack]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that a mode with a static base to defend is the most logical mode to have turrets in. Did I miss something?

Bhael Fire, on 21 April 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Turrets have no place in Assault. They belong in Attack/Defend mode where one side has to attack the defender's base — which is more of a permanent structure instead of mobile command unit.

So... in a mode where, against all tactical doctrine, one side is forced to attempt to take a base from defenders who have no place to be but sitting on their camp, with even numbers.... the defenders getting the additional advantage of defensive turrets..... is a better idea than having them in Assault mode?

That's the stand you're gonna take?

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 21 April 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gryphorim, on 21 April 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

I think the turrets need to be separated into Laser turrets and LRM turrets. Also, having separate structures that can be destroyed, negating each of these types would add depth to assault tactics.

umm..they ARE separated. A Turret is either 2 Medium Lasers, or 1 LRM10. Not both.

[Graugger]

Bhael Fire, on 21 April 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Turrets have no place in Assault. They belong in Attack/Defend mode where one side has to attack the defender's base — which is more of a permanent structure instead of mobile command unit.

It's dumbed Assault down to basically Skirmish mode by removing the need to keep an eye on your base. In other words, it's made it less tactical.

No, its made it so that if you attack the base and the enemy isn't home you have to be quick before they get back because they'll know you're there before you get to start capping. And its absolute B.S. that you don't have to watch your base, they act more as a early warning station than anything else.

The only way turrets should be that big of an issue is if you're ignoring them... and if you're ignoring weapons fire get out of this game fool. A Jenner with 6 medium lasers is a threat, are you going to complain about that too?

[Bishop Steiner]

Mycrus, on 21 April 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Assault suck amazeballs now...

started dropping exclusively in skirmish now

and that is why they added skirmish for people that just wanna scrap. Win win, IMO.

[AlmightyAeng]

Khobai, on 21 April 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Turrets definitely need to be tweaked.

The purpose of turrets was to slow down the cap and discourage single mechs from capping.

The purpose of turrets was not to discourage capping altogether and turn base assault into skirmish.

I dunno...it's kinda funny to watch "XXX has been killed by DEFENSIVE TURRET" four times in a row while I'm drinking and making my way back towards our base. *half-sarcasm*

[aniviron]

Davers, on 21 April 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

It's kind of amazing that turrets, with the combined awesome firepower of a medium mech, has ruined so many people's games.

Sure, go ahead and laugh- but when I move into the central grid of Caustic Valley, if I'm being targeted at all, there's a 100% guarantee of "Warning, incoming missiles." That's going to be between 3-4 LRM10s coming down on me, depending on how many I'm in range of. Are YOU going to sit there, eating 30-40 LRMs at a time for daring to venture onto the wrong half of the map?

And unlike medium mechs, the turrets coordinate fire, they sit behind cover while using teammates' locks, have unlimited ammo, a 105m more generous minimum range, never miss, and always target the most damaged component of your mech.

When the turrets were announced, we were told that the first ones would have small lasers and MGs, to test how this affected gameplay. That almost certainly wouldn't have been enough, but giving turrets LRMs has far too much of an effect. It's not the worst thing in the world on Mordor or Crimson where the map is big enough that you can fight away from the turrets if you want to, and if you do take the fight to the turrets, they're spread out, and there is enough cover that it's possible to deal with the turrets without getting shredded.

I like the idea of turrets, but the way they've been implemented is not so great on most maps. On Caustic and River City especially, it turns the no man's lands into death traps, completely exposed to LRMs with no way to return fire, and the turrets concentrate fire particularly well, given that they are clustered so tightly.

Losing ten percent of your mech's integrity to turret LRMs doesn't sound that bad, until you remember that 90%+ of all games end in the destruction of one team, rather than cap wins (figure source is Paul, so yes, that's official). If you're down that much health and the game is close, it's for sure the difference between you killing someone and then helping your buddy, or dying and then watching your teammate lose a 2v1. That means there's a lot of risk for engaging turrets, and the potential reward is a slim chance at a cap win if the other team is blind, deaf, and/or unwilling to respond to the BASE UNDER ATTACK warnings they are all getting. And if you're lucky enough to win by base cap, congrats! You get almost no money, a pittance of XP, and you'd better hope that you were the one to get the finishing shot on all the turrets, because only the last hit counts for payouts.

[a gaijin]

Didn't read any posts except for OP but anyhow my 2 Cbills is:

Turrets are a good addition to Assault and should stay.

[Mystere]

Here's a thought. Make base caps highly profitable -- something like 1,000,000 c-bill reward -- and base assaults just might happen ... a whole lot.

Edited by Mystere, 21 April 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[East Indy]

Pjwned, on 21 April 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

I don't see how they're obsolete because matches are still played on them frequently; it's not just 3 maps either, it happens on Crimson Strait, Terra Therma, and Canyon Network as well.

They're small and they don't have the most inventive topographies. There's not a lot of room for tactical variety, and as noted earlier, there's very little room to maneuver between one base and the other. It's the maps; not assault.

I've actually never seen a team remain near its base in the three maps you list — like, never. Teams may be slow to march, but seek out the other side. On the maps I mentioned, teams that remain close tend to be cowering instead of dug in, and lose.

[White Bear 84]

Mystere, on 21 April 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

Here's a thought. Make base caps highly profitable -- something like 1,000,000 c-bill reward -- and base assaults just might happen ... a whole lot.

For that you can expect dual-ppc, quad gauss defense turrets with LRM50.

[Mycrus]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 April 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

and that is why they added skirmish for people that just wanna scrap. Win win, IMO.

Yep I used to drop exclusively in assault before turrets... base cap added a good strategic element...

Turrets themselves are just stupid... These are fixed emplacements that happen just to be on the ground where your mobile base is located.... They should have used tanks... at least you can blow them up from a distance...

So our base changed from toaster to derrick to mobile something and yet we have fixed bunker like turrets...

[Pjwned]

East Indy, on 21 April 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

They're small and they don't have the most inventive topographies. There's not a lot of room for tactical variety, and as noted earlier, there's very little room to maneuver between one base and the other. It's the maps; not assault.

I've actually never seen a team remain near its base in the three maps you list — like, never. Teams may be slow to march, but seek out the other side. On the maps I mentioned, teams that remain close tend to be cowering instead of dug in, and lose.

I actually meant to say Alpine Peaks instead of Terra Therma, but it definitely does happen there and Crimson Strait, and maybe less so but still often enough on Canyon Network.

[Bhael Fire]

Graugger, on 21 April 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

No, its made it so that if you attack the base and the enemy isn't home you have to be quick before they get back