126 replies to this topic

[KKillian]

1000 times yes, I enjoyed my lights just fine when collision was around, they just need to balance cadillac dragon ramming. I just watched a highlander RIDE a locust across a map at 140kph laughing about it.

[Zervziel]

Lynx7725, on 21 April 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Eh, I am unconvinced on this. Given the piss poor situation awareness of your average PUGwarrior, I suspect on implementation, in the first 30 secs of any given match we'll get 4 or 5 mechs on the ground as the PUGwarriors brazenly run into each other. And given how PUGwarriors like to block each other's retreat path, a Mech trying to back into cover rapidly becomes two Mechs on the ground being targets. And if weapons fire can knockdown Mechs, then good grief, the 6xLRM5 Catapult-A1 build would be the go-to TrollCat build. It's just going to keep things locked down for a good, long time.

You're right! We should never, at any point in time, ask the PUGwarriors to learn to freaking drive their death machines. Nope. Never have them challenged in anyway outside of combat.

Oh wait no, that kind of thinking is ******** as it's the same kind of thinking that's led to the self-entitled idiots we have today. Asking newbies to learn how to not run into one another should not be too much to ask!

[Divine Decoy]

Almighty Cico, on 21 April 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

God no, i saw few vids on youtube how dragon was ramming every mech lol

NOPE NOPE NOPE

LOL but with out ramming, dragons are nay useless.....

[Und3rSc0re]

I love how every week or so a nice thread like this comes up, all these people get together to brain storm on stuff then it just gets buried with no attention at all. I cant wait till next week, i wonder which thread someone will remake and get peoples hopes up.

[Kanatta Jing]

Collision only works if they apply series damage to both mechs with collision, other wise it turns into a stun lock.

With the damage however it makes it so that a newb in a trial assault mech can accidentally crush the rest of his Lance./

[Faith McCarron]

Can you imagine the hilarity that would ensue at the entrances to the PUGzapper on TT?

[MoonUnitBeta]

Mechs with hands should be able to grab behind mechs and reef them down onto their back, Or run up behind a mech that's slowly walking forward, kneel down, grab the foot that lifts off the ground and pull back while headbutting the rear torso, and watch him mech to a face plant, then just let loose as his mech's system runs through its recovery process.

Or mechs should just be able to stick their leg behind a mech, and ram their arm into their shoulder and hook their leg, making them fall on their back, then start punching them in the chest, firing their AC or PPC as they do so. I'm just imagining a Battlemaster with three AC/2's punching into the side of a victor with all three AC/2's are firing and medium lasers gallore.

Or an Atlas should be able to walk up to mechs, lift them up ass over head and lean back, ram their cockpit against the ac/20 and just let loose. Everytime I'm in my atlas I dream about grabbing under the catapult's ears and doing arm curls, lifting them up into my ac/20. *GRBLAM* Then when the mech falls limp, just let go and walk over the corpse, maybe for dramatic effect, step on one of the ears and it buckles and breaks under the atlas' foot.


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Foxfire, on 21 April 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

I agree that knockdown needs to be re-added to the game but it needs to be much more refined that it was originally.

Its not hard to improve on garbage, unless you're PGI.

Garbage is as garbage does.

[Prezimonto]

MoonUnitBeta, on 22 April 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

Mechs with hands should be able to grab behind mechs and reef them down onto their back, Or run up behind a mech that's slowly walking forward, kneel down, grab the foot that lifts off the ground and pull back while headbutting the rear torso, and watch him mech to a face plant, then just let loose as his mech's system runs through its recovery process.

Or mechs should just be able to stick their leg behind a mech, and ram their arm into their shoulder and hook their leg, making them fall on their back, then start punching them in the chest, firing their AC or PPC as they do so. I'm just imagining a Battlemaster with three AC/2's punching into the side of a victor with all three AC/2's are firing and medium lasers gallore.

Or an Atlas should be able to walk up to mechs, lift them up ass over head and lean back, ram their cockpit against the ac/20 and just let loose. Everytime I'm in my atlas I dream about grabbing under the catapult's ears and doing arm curls, lifting them up into my ac/20. *GRBLAM* Then when the mech falls limp, just let go and walk over the corpse, maybe for dramatic effect, step on one of the ears and it buckles and breaks under the atlas' foot.


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

O M G

That gave me serious nerd *****. I want that game play. I want my mechs to get physical on the battle field. I want getting close to an enemy to have a real dangerous element for both players.

I LOVE the idea that hands on mechs gives them an advantage in close. It's actually another good balance point against the Clan mechs, as they carry so many weapons they often don't have arms. They shouldn't be able to punch, brawl, or grapple without taking large damage. But mechs with hands shouldn't take much damage from those actions... while imobilizing and beating the snot out of mechs they're grappling.

Making getting into to CQB meaningful. A couple of Trebs or Quickdraws should be dangerous in close, at the least.

[Creovex]

I am in complete support of putting Knockdown back in, but it should be mech size/distance related. An AC20 hitting a Commando < 100m should definitely push it, if not knock it over. However it makes little sense to pretend to say that a an Atlas should feel the same effect.

However, please DO NOT add back the collision knockdown that used to occur (can't tell you how bad the falls were in the tunnel on Alpine Peaks) as the space in maps such as this and Canyon Network would be disastrous in a 12v12.

[qki]

Main problem is - many players are not looking for balance - they are looking for vengeance. When X is succesfully used against them, they not only want to remove X from the (meta)game by making it useless (rather than learn to deal with it), but they want to punish people for using it.


We saw exactly this with the endless "plz add dorpships with gauss and laz0rz that derpstroy anyone trying to cap the base in assault mode kkthxbai" threads.


Collisions were just silly. While the occasional strategically executed tackle was fun, two mechs falling over because they touched at 20 mph was just ret**ded. And people asking for their "easy mode kills on lighter mechs" need to wake up. No, it's not okay for you to get a free kill on a mech simply because you touched it and now all the other player can do is watch the fall/stand animation over and over.


In the boardgame, there were clear situations that COULD cause a fall:

take 20+ damage in the shooting phase - make a piloting roll or fall (usually a 5+ on 2d6)
get kicked/miss a kick - make a PSR or fall
run and turn on pavement - make a PSR or skid, possibly fall.
take damage to gyro/leg actuators - make a PSR with a modifier or fall
attempt to jump/run with a damaged gyro/hip - make a PSR with a modifier.
Lose a leg - automatic fall, can get up.
lose the gyro - fall and can't get up.


If you have a way to implement this without turning the entire game into a struggle to keep your mech from falling over (especially if you are running a 90kph+ machine), then please - share. Otherwise it's just a bad idea that you should keep to yourself.

[Livewyr]

Properly introduced:

Where bumping into a team mate was an audio annoyance and not a concern, but a full on charge could be strategically used- albeit with HEAVY damage consequences (to *both* mechs) would be a good thing.

Certainly would give the bad ankle-biting, crotch-sniffing light mechs, something to think about. (And make the Atlas a bit more imposing...)

I posted a thread about this a long time ago with some decent calculations on how to make it work, without being a complete nuisance from team mates.

Like most things....

[FlipOver]

I'm for this to be brought back but not on pug matches.

I see pugging as a way for a new player to be introduced to a game (somewhat like training grounds but against other pilots). If you add knockdowns to small maps and generically poor piloting skills on most players, you'd have a recipe to scare away most new players.

[CDLord HHGD]

I do agree that Dragon Bowling should NOT return. However, there should be more consequences for trading paint.....

[qki]

I'd have no problem if it took both intent AND effort to knock someone down - like running into them at 60% or more of your top speed (based on your respective tonnage), and not just randomly bumping your assault a55 into the light mech circling arount to get a knockdown and trample whatever you stepped on.

[Prezimonto]

qki, on 23 April 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

I'd have no problem if it took both intent AND effort to knock someone down - like running into them at 60% or more of your top speed (based on your respective tonnage), and not just randomly bumping your assault a55 into the light mech circling arount to get a knockdown and trample whatever you stepped on.

qki, on 23 April 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

Lose a leg - automatic fall, can get up.
lose the gyro - fall and can't get up.
If you have a way to implement this without turning the entire game into a struggle to keep your mech from falling over (especially if you are running a 90kph+ machine), then please - share. Otherwise it's just a bad idea that you should keep to yourself.

Here's an idea:

Treat the Gyro's as a object that giving a stabilizing force vector of some magnitude. Anything that seriously changes or imbalances the mech, also makes the magnitude of the stabilizing force vector smaller, making the mech easier to knock over.

So lose an arm, small imbalance, lose a leg small imbalance (and low speed), low one side torso large imbalance, lose both side torsos, now you've got a really stable mech as the gyro doesn't have a stabilize all that extra mass. Take gyro crits: lose a large amount of the gyro force vector magnitude. I wouldn't make the mech fall over automatically, but I'd lower it's ability to move on anything but level terrain without a chance of falling over, or use JJ without a chance of falling over, or take a hit without falling over.

Physics based damage model: vector math for the win. It's simple, easy to code, and if the collision detection is in and working on the net code side there's no reason is shouldn't work.

So two mechs of equal force, ram each other head on: they take damage based on the sum of the magnitude of the force vectors, but those forces cancel out and are less that the gryo stabilizing vector force: both mechs stay upright but get some screen shake related to the amount of damage taken.

So two mechs one standing still and one moving a top speed: the standing mech contributes nothing to the damage calculation, but it's mass and gyro rating give it an opposing force check vs. the force of the on coming mech. If it's a really large mech that gyro force might still be pretty large compared to on coming mech... maybe both fall over, or maybe only the standing mech. Both take damage based on the magnitude of the force vector from the movement of standing mech.

So two mechs one moving slowing at an angle relative to the second. Sum of vectors in the direction of motion for moving mech... this will cancel out the total vector if the first mech is moving away from the second, but add if the first mech is moving toward the second. The gyro's of both mechs are probably going keep them upright in the first case, but might well knock them over in the second case. Because the total forces are split along the angles.

Edited by Prezimonto, 23 April 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Armored Yokai]

So far the majority of the community is with the re-implementation of Knockdown

[xMEPHISTOx]

MoonUnitBeta, on 22 April 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

Mechs with hands should be able to grab behind mechs and reef them down onto their back, Or run up behind a mech that's slowly walking forward, kneel down, grab the foot that lifts off the ground and pull back while headbutting the rear torso...

...and mechs with legs should be able to tea bag a downed opponent, or use said hands to flip another off, or touch another mech inappropriately.

[Nyte Kitsune]

Well, This is one I'd be for as It does bring back memories of some tactics I used in the old tabletop game. However, for those that don't like it, I would say it might be wiser if it was left as an option in Match Making. If you wanted it Enabled then you just enter into matches against other people that like it enabled. If not, Disable it and only match up with people that prefer it off. Then again I'm in the camp that would like them to "Eventually" add in melee physics so that mechs like the Hatchetman, Axeman, etc could be brought in along with the mech to be able to punch or kick like in the old tabletop games... Also wouldn't say no for the option for a skilled pilot with jump jets to be able to perform the dreaded "Death From Above", What, weapons destroyed? Armor shredded? Jumpjets? Check!.... Banzai!!!

[MeiSooHaityu]

I would like to see knock-down added back in, but they need to solve the rubber-banding (false image) of the mech when it gets up.

Also, no more Dragon Bowling...please for the love of god. That was just painful.