15 replies to this topic

[GreyGriffin]

Since the change to capture times to prevent a single lance of ECM ninjas from taking 4 points and fading, the pacing of conquest feels really off. It feels like once the enemy has reached 500 resources, unless you are neck-and-neck or ahead, it's pretty much GG if they run and hide.

There must be some dial between Resource win total, capture rate, resource accumulation rate, that can lead to a more satisfying match length and more dynamic play that's not just "which team dies at capture point 4."

Edited by Egomane, 22 April 2014 - 12:25 AM.
modified tag

[Lupin]

Would be better if delay between changing base from one side to the other removed or reduced A LOT.
Having been sitting on a neutral base for far too long even with CAPTURE ACCELERATOR before it is captured.

Also holding base should count for something, i.e. increase in resources accumulation rate.

[Khobai]

I would like to see the following changes:

1) resource rate proportional to how captured a base is (i.e. if its only 10% captured it only yields 10% of the resource rate)

2) faster turnover time of bases (i.e. bases spend less time being neutral)

3) resource bonus for killing enemy mechs (i.e. each enemy mech you kill gives your team +25 resources)

4) actual rewards for capping. right now you get absolutely nothing for capping in a capture gamemode which is so wrong.

[Thorqemada]

Fact is, when the ressources be gathered they still not be moved, an Escort Mission would be the logical finish.
Though the Maps be to small for that and it still would end as TDM like every other matchmode.
MWO will allways be Arena-TDM.

[Joseph Mallan]

GreyGriffin, on 21 April 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

Since the change to capture times to prevent a single lance of ECM ninjas from taking 4 points and fading, the pacing of conquest feels really off. It feels like once the enemy has reached 500 resources, unless you are neck-and-neck or ahead, it's pretty much GG if they run and hide.

There must be some dial between Resource win total, capture rate, resource accumulation rate, that can lead to a more satisfying match length and more dynamic play that's not just "which team dies at capture point 4."

I though the Mission of Conquest was to capture the points first and then kill enemies as needed? Yep that is the mission. Get the stuff first kill the enemy if you have to.

Otherwise the mission objectives would be
Kill the enemy
Get the stuff.

See the difference?

[Charons Little Helper]

GreyGriffin, on 21 April 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

Since the change to capture times to prevent a single lance of ECM ninjas from taking 4 points and fading, the pacing of conquest feels really off. It feels like once the enemy has reached 500 resources, unless you are neck-and-neck or ahead, it's pretty much GG if they run and hide.

Sounds like you don't really like conquest at all.

The whole point is that it keeps teams from deathballing. If you do deathball and the enemy team is smart - they'll avoid combat and get up to 500 points and then 'GG' as they run and hide.

It's called strategy.

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 22 April 2014 - 04:19 AM.

[Bobzilla]

It was changed to this way to put more value in capping than killing. It's obviously working as intended as OP points out, not capping will make you lose.

There is a great strategy of killing first to criple the enemy and capping later, espically if the other team is spread out capping but knowing when to stop is risky.

There is a problem sometimes when one side has superrior mobilty and gains an advantage because of it. But 3/3/3/3 will help that out.

[Troutmonkey]

I think capping speeds need to be made much faster.
Currently a single mech capping a point from full red to blue takes ~ 2 minutes, that's ********.
This makes lights worth less at capping, because it gives much slower and heavier Assaults plenty of time to reach that cap and tear you a new one.
Before the cap time increase there never really was a deathball, there was several groups running around constantly capping and uncapping points, while having multiple skirmishes. Now your deathball sorta just rolls over any objective, not really having to worry about points being uncapped behind you as you went, because you could see them being capped and have plenty of time to react.
Conquest really is the only mode where faster mechs should be better, but I really doesn't help right now.

[Davers]

Bases should cap/uncap faster. This would give some value to holding and defending a base. Most maps are so small that capping is really the secondary objective. There is a reason many people used Conquest as a surrogate TDM before Skirmish.

[Shlkt]

Imperfect information often turns Conquest games into coin tosses, especially for PUG matches. You need scouting info to deploy your forces strategically, especially on bigger maps... but players are not willing to wait for scouting info. They pick a cap point and head straight for it, without knowing where the opposition is going. And frankly scouting is often too slow anway - if you wait to scout first then you'll be too far behind to catch up.

I think slow cap speeds might exacerbate the problem, I'm not 100% decided on that issue. If you wait for scouting info, especially on Terra Therma, you can find yourself at an insurmountable disadvantage to a team which took the risky approach and just rushed 2 or 3 cap points. You know where their forces are now, but you cannot catch up to their cap advantage due to the size of the map. Similarly if you deploy a lance in one direction and then discover a larger enemy force, even a retreat puts you at a disadvantage 'cuz they can gather resources the whole time you're repositioning. There's a lot of luck involved.

Also on Terra Therma (see how many problems this map causes? lol) there are so many line-of-sight obstructions that scouts often cannot identify the enemy position until they're right around the corner.

On small maps, Conquest isn't really a game type. Forest colony, for example, is generally only won by capping when two deathballs collide and a pair of legged Assaults are all that survive

IMO cap speed should not scale with # of mechs capping. That change alone would put more emphasis on defending resource points.

Edited by Shlkt, 22 April 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[Almond Brown]

The secret to Conquest is to have competent cappers while the balance of the force deters and or delays the enemy death ball as long as possible. As stated, scouts find and relay enemy force composition (Assault Ball or mix) and act accordingly.

Yes, yes, easier written than done. Is that not the FUN bit?

If a full de-cap to cap time of 2 minutes is accurate, then the Cap Accelerator module should be increased from 15% to 25%. 6 mill for 15%? ummmmmm...

Edited by Almond Brown, 22 April 2014 - 10:59 AM.

[Mechteric]

The amount of time the cap point spends in neutral before it flips to your team is ETERNITY.

[GreyGriffin]

Charons Little Helper, on 22 April 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

The whole point is that it keeps teams from deathballing. If you do deathball and the enemy team is smart - they'll avoid combat and get up to 500 points and then 'GG' as they run and hide.

I frankly wouldn't mind if they could GG at 650 if they have a clear lead, but right now it's just too hard to turn the capture momentum around.

[DONTOR]

Khobai, on 22 April 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

I would like to see the following changes:

1) resource rate proportional to how captured a base is (i.e. if its only 10% captured it only yields 10% of the resource rate)

2) faster turnover time of bases (i.e. bases spend less time being neutral)

3) resource bonus for killing enemy mechs (i.e. each enemy mech you kill gives your team +25 resources)

4) actual rewards for capping. right now you get absolutely nothing for capping in a capture gamemode which is so wrong.

I like the #2 and #3 suggestions but the first one is a terrible idea. It would take the only REAL objective based game type and turn it, even more so into kill the enemy first. Because the last guy wont be able to turn the tides at all having to full cap a point. Unless they sped up the cap rate considerably.
Also there is no feelng like being in a lone light and winning the game for your team, especially if the rest of your team was destroyed by meta humpers... damn thats a good feeling.

[Charons Little Helper]

GreyGriffin, on 22 April 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

I frankly wouldn't mind if they could GG at 650 if they have a clear lead, but right now it's just too hard to turn the capture momentum around.

I acutally appreciate how hard it is to turn capture momentum around. It means that early in the match - you need to BOTH fight well and not fall behind on cap.

If it were too easy to turn around cap mid-late game, it'd be stupid to even bother capping for the first few minutes - as any time you take capping is time that your team is lacking your firepower.

[GreyGriffin]

Charons Little Helper, on 22 April 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

If it were too easy to turn around cap mid-late game, it'd be stupid to even bother capping for the first few minutes - as any time you take capping is time that your team is lacking your firepower.

The flipside of this is that a little lack of coordination on one team's part can lose them the match in the first few minutes.