73 replies to this topic

[Procyon Alpha]

I know that ECM needs a total rework, but could we just get a temp. Fix for now?

Don't get me wrong I think they need to rethink ECM needs a total overhaul. Bur for now can we just get ECM to not stack? Completely shutting down a weapon system by having 2 ECMs is a little over powered. I don't mind that BAP can negate one ECM but cat do crap with two. Just a thought, but I figured that would be an easier fix for now than redesigning the entre system.

Edited by Egomane, 24 April 2014 - 12:57 PM.

[Hawks]

I personally think the easiest and best fix would be to simply allow ECM to be fitted to any chassis. I have seen literally no good reason ever given as to why this should not be the case.

[Flaming oblivion]

I'm not a fan of ecm, And before people come in shouting about the ways to counter it not all are in the know how, I cant tell you the horror ecm causes pugging in the lower end of the elo bracket. because if they put ecm on every chasis and every mech , Everyone would have it what would be the point , Halve the team would have counter turned on the other scramble urgo no one would have ecm

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 24 April 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Bilbo]

Hawks, on 24 April 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

I personally think the easiest and best fix would be to simply allow ECM to be fitted to any chassis. I have seen literally no good reason ever given as to why this should not be the case.

The complete elimination of LRM's and SSRMs from use, maybe?

[Tastian]

I don't think ECM is anywhere near as bad as it once was but I'd like to see it returned to its original purpose: An electronic counter measure; instead of a radar ghost that all other electronics are trying to counter.

ECM should counter Artemis, BAP, C3 and Narc. It should not stop regular LRMs or Streaks from targeting. Nor should it prevent information gathering or targeting. It sounds like a pretty minor component at that point .... as it should be.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

NO

MORE

BANDAID

FIXES

Edited by mwhighlander, 24 April 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[Charons Little Helper]

Hawks, on 24 April 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

I personally think the easiest and best fix would be to simply allow ECM to be fitted to any chassis. I have seen literally no good reason ever given as to why this should not be the case.

Because ECM is OP - and the only thing keeping it from totally breaking the game is the chasis limitation putting ECM on what would otherwise be mediocre mechs.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Hawks, on 24 April 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

I personally think the easiest and best fix would be to simply allow ECM to be fitted to any chassis. I have seen literally no good reason ever given as to why this should not be the case.

What should happen is the ECM simply removes the "Magic Dorito" targeting triangle above you when you are merely in someone's LoS.

Next, ECM should only remove perks of Artemis, NARC, TAG, etc. and revert BAP extra radar range dection on you (If ECM equip'd ) back to standard range. LRM lockon you is simply <arbitrary number> % longer. You can't "hard target" an enemy mech with ECM outside you radar range (ECM detection begins at ~500m, normal mechs at ~800m without BAP). What that means is you can get the red square over them if you press "R" when you have your croshair over them, but you cannot spread target info through your C3 computers or gain any target information until you close in on range.

Third, ECM should only protect you. Angel Suit ECM is another story.

Fourth, ALL MECHS can equip ECM/BAP but requires a "tech" hardpoint. Some mechs like the Ravens, DDC and Cicada have two tech hardpoints points so that they can equip both ECM or BAP. All other mechs will have to make a choice between the defensive ECM or Offensive BAP.


Done.

[Charons Little Helper]

mwhighlander, on 24 April 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

What should happen is the ECM simply removes the "Magic Dorito" targeting triangle above you when you are merely in someone's LoS.

Next, ECM should only remove perks of Artemis, NARC, TAG, etc. and revert BAP extra radar range dection on you (If ECM equip'd ) back to standard range. LRM lockon you is simply <arbitrary number> % longer. You can't "hard target" an enemy mech with ECM outside you radar range (ECM detection begins at ~500m, normal mechs at ~800m without BAP). What that means is you can get the red square over them if you press "R" when you have your croshair over them, but you cannot spread target info through your C3 computers or gain any target information until you close in on range.

Third, ECM should only protect you. Angel Suit ECM is another story.

Fourth, ALL MECHS can equip ECM/BAP but requires a "tech" hardpoint. Some mechs like the Ravens, DDC and Cicada have two tech hardpoints points so that they can equip both ECM or BAP. All other mechs will have to make a choice between the defensive ECM or Offensive BAP.


Done.

x2

[Burning Chrome]

MWO ECM is ******ry.

It should be limited to what it does in TT and perhaps impacting comms and some information sharing.

It should never prevent lock on (delay of streaks might be worth while) nor "cloak" any mech that mounts it or within 180m of it.

BAP and ECM should counter each other. TAG should remain unaffected and only affect LRM guidance.

All the other BS should be eliminated.

Edit due to posts while I was composing mine. I disagree with it only "protecting" the mech it is mounted on, as it is not limited that way in TT. My LRMs no longer get the Artemis/Narc bonus, but I can still target/lock/hit the Blackjack that just scurried over to the Raven...

Edited by Burning Chrome, 24 April 2014 - 12:48 PM.

[Hawks]

Flaming oblivion, on 24 April 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

I'm not a fan of ecm, And before people come in shouting about the ways to counter it not all are in the know how, I cant tell you the horror ecm causes pugging in the lower end of the elo bracket. because if they put ecm on every chasis and every mech , Everyone would have it what would be the point , Halve the team would have counter turned on the other scramble urgo no one would have ecm

Bilbo, on 24 April 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

The complete elimination of LRM's and SSRMs from use, maybe?

Charons Little Helper, on 24 April 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Because ECM is OP - and the only thing keeping it from totally breaking the game is the chasis limitation putting ECM on what would otherwise be mediocre mechs.

So you guys are telling if all mechs could carry ECM, it would break the game by...making ECM impotent and irrelevant...thereby stopping LRMs and Streaks from working? Admit it, you're all trolling me aren't you?

mwhighlander, on 24 April 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

What should happen is the ECM simply removes the "Magic Dorito" targeting triangle above you when you are merely in someone's LoS.

Next, ECM should only remove perks of Artemis, NARC, TAG, etc. and revert BAP extra radar range dection on you (If ECM equip'd ) back to standard range. LRM lockon you is simply <arbitrary number> % longer. You can't "hard target" an enemy mech with ECM outside you radar range (ECM detection begins at ~500m, normal mechs at ~800m without BAP). What that means is you can get the red square over them if you press "R" when you have your croshair over them, but you cannot spread target info through your C3 computers or gain any target information until you close in on range.

Third, ECM should only protect you. Angel Suit ECM is another story.

Fourth, ALL MECHS can equip ECM/BAP but requires a "tech" hardpoint. Some mechs like the Ravens, DDC and Cicada have two tech hardpoints points so that they can equip both ECM or BAP. All other mechs will have to make a choice between the defensive ECM or Offensive BAP.


Done.

Aha, a coherent response! I've advocated something similar in the past (I would go further and suggest including AMS, TSM (if/when it comes out), MASC (ditto), targeting computers (ditto) and so on in the 'tech' category) but, honestly, it's been like 18 months since ECM was introduced and I haven't seen any signs that this is going to be seriously looked at, I'm basically resigned to the fact that ECM is always going to work more or less the way it does now and, given that, I think that just letting any mech take it would be the best way to resolve the issue.

Edited by Hawks, 24 April 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

I fail to see why ECM should affect TAG at all. A bit hard to mess with laser reflection guidance.
I can see ECM hiding the 'Mechs around the carrier, but the carrier should in no way be invisible. The exact opposite since it is throwing out all kinds of signals. ECM, like BAP is an active system, stealth like most of ECM's current functions tend to be passive. Really it should just nullify NARC, BAP, Artemis, jam information sharing within or passing through its effective radius, and retain its ECCM mode option. It should in no way effect information gathering on an individual level. Extending lock time and reducing retention time is fine, because the signals it sends out should interfere with those systems.

I hope the TT measures were at least originally tried and failed with ECM, otherwise much grief could have been averted.

[Lyoto Machida]

Hawks, on 24 April 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

So you guys are telling if all mechs could carry ECM, it would break the game by...making ECM impotent and irrelevant...thereby stopping LRMs and Streaks from working? Admit it, you're all trolling me aren't you?



Aha, a coherent response! I've advocated something similar in the past (I would go further and suggest including AMS, TSM (if/when it comes out), MASC (ditto), targeting computers (ditto) and so on in the 'tech' category) but, honestly, it's been like 18 months since ECM was introduced and I haven't seen any signs that this is going to be seriously looked at, I'm basically resigned to the fact that ECM is always going to work more or less the way it does now and, given that, I think that just letting any mech take it would be the best way to resolve the issue.

Lol...exactly. If everyone can carry it, then everyone can counter jam as well and it would be glorious. Why is it a problem that every mech can carry it???

Then again, I'd rather see them make ECM work how it's supposed to in TT but having it on every mech in that situation wouldn't be bad either.

[Charons Little Helper]

Hawks, on 24 April 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

So you guys are telling if all mechs could carry ECM, it would break the game by...making ECM impotent and irrelevant...thereby stopping LRMs and Streaks from working? Admit it, you're all trolling me aren't you?

By that logic - having one weapon system being far more powerful than any other doesn't affect match balance. After all, the only thing that will happen is that everyone will take said weapon and the matches will be even.

Obviously - that is a flawed argument. But it's flawed in the same way saying that ECM being OP isn't a problem if everyone can take it.

[Bilbo]

Hawks, on 24 April 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

So you guys are telling if all mechs could carry ECM, it would break the game by...making ECM impotent and irrelevant...thereby stopping LRMs and Streaks from working? Admit it, you're all trolling me aren't you?
.......

No, I'm saying allowing ECM on all mechs will eliminate LRMs and SSRMs from the game completely. It would simply be impossible to get a reliable lock on anything unless your running in a 12 man and can reliably coordinate ECM modes of operation.

[Burning Chrome]

Bilbo, on 24 April 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

No, I'm saying allowing ECM on all mechs will eliminate LRMs and SSRMs from the game completely. It would simply be impossible to get a reliable lock on anything unless your running in a 12 man and can reliably coordinate ECM modes of operation.

This one can see..

[CygnusX7]

mwhighlander, on 24 April 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

NO

MORE

BANDAID

FIXES

[Mechteric]

I would just like to see ECM not give blanket radar cover to nearby friendly mechs (that's supposed to be the separate Angel ECM equipment anyway). I think that would go a long way toward balancing ECM in PUG matches while still being a competitive option.

[Lyoto Machida]

Bilbo, on 24 April 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

No, I'm saying allowing ECM on all mechs will eliminate LRMs and SSRMs from the game completely. It would simply be impossible to get a reliable lock on anything unless your running in a 12 man and can reliably coordinate ECM modes of operation.

Even though I love LRMs in PUGs, it's not my problem if PGI can't get a working VOIP/comm rose system in place. Either remove the restriction of allowing only certain chassis to have it or make it work like TT.

I have no problem LRMing, poptarting, brawling or sniping...not my issue if some people can only play one style.

Sometimes, you have to break things to fix them...ever wonder why we have term limits on certain positions in politics?

[LoneMaverick]

Hawks, on 24 April 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

I personally think the easiest and best fix would be to simply allow ECM to be fitted to any chassis. I have seen literally no good reason ever given as to why this should not be the case.

eww eww eww eww....eww.

"best way to fix something broken is to give it to everyone"

I'd much rather ECM just be taken out of the game, or perhaps we can balance it? Making it just negate bonuses from BAP/Artemis/TAG/NARC like it's supposed to instead of just being a team cloak might be a step in the right direction.