1821 replies to this topic

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Nope almost all weapon stats are same, there are just few that were changed to fight mech lab.
I was modding several games and I never seen so dumb file system like your examples.
So I highly doubt is true in this case.
You don`t have a clue what you talk about. Unless you provide some evidence about retardation in file system in this particular game.

After rereading your post, I`m not sure if you know what we are talking about at all.
About what armor are you talking about?
Where did you took your 78? There is like 4 weapons that need change back to BT, if I remember correctly from 3025. Maybe you can double this if you take the rest, but not many care much about anything other then 3025 anyway.
Even then, if retardation of this game design is so deep, there are probably ready xml file that they were using at the start.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 19 August 2016 - 04:40 PM.

[Tesunie]

One thing you don't seem to consider... Unlike game modding, where you replace files manually, in this game they would have to create an option switch to read different files. This means they have to design that toggle selection into the user interface.

So, when was the last time you designed and altered a user interface Jaeger Gonzo? Have you ever done it? Or did you just manually change a few files and insert them as direct replacements when you modified games?

Oh, and you also have to consider that they would need to double check the files, to make sure they are all the correct numbers...
And make sure that the toggle to convert states to TT also works and is bug free...
And also need to make sure that all weapons are in fact reading at stock value...
All that for no additional income.

Everything takes time. Time costs money. Even something that seems simple to us is not as simple as we think it is.

[Vasili Kerensky]

Is this event still happening?
Is there some revised list of allowed 'mechs? The one on the first page doesn't include any Marauders or Riflemen - is that intentional?

[Ovion]

Vasili Kerensky, on 08 September 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

Is this event still happening?
Is there some revised list of allowed 'mechs? The one on the first page doesn't include any Marauders or Riflemen - is that intentional?

Not especially intentional no.

With this sort of... dying off, and my previous Hard Drive (and its backup) developing mechanical faults and losing over a decades work and all my business files, that infographic along with a few other projects got forgotten / ignored.

Even now after around a year I'm still not at a point where most of my personal projects I had are back on track...
Less than 1/3 of my TTRPG stable has sheets, my mech stable pictures aren't up to date, the Scale images I did are way behind, and all my WH40K condensed codexes, extended codexes, custom codexes and infographics are now basically non existent.

My work-stuff is about 90% back on track though, so that's good.

I'm actually intending this/next week to do my Mech Stable and the Scale shots - already taken all the screenshots to update it, and trimmed them, just need to do the text and editing work.

If someone can type out a list of all the mechs and variants as I have them in the infographic + include all new legal variants I can put out an updated infographic in a few days, otherwise... I'll try and have it done before the Stock Mech button is implemented...


As to SMM events, with quirks and changes and life, a lot of it's sort of drifted currently, but the upcoming Stock Button will make it FAR more accessible and should see a revival.

Edited by Ovion, 08 September 2016 - 05:29 PM.

[Vasili Kerensky]

Sorry to hear of all the work you lost man. I never trust just one backup so I keep my life's work on several hard drives and usb sticks and even keep copies on different computers in other locations - but not in any cloud or dropbox-like space.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Tesunie, on 08 September 2016 - 06:32 AM, said:

One thing you don't seem to consider... Unlike game modding, where you replace files manually, in this game they would have to create an option switch to read different files. This means they have to design that toggle selection into the user interface.

So, when was the last time you designed and altered a user interface Jaeger Gonzo? Have you ever done it? Or did you just manually change a few files and insert them as direct replacements when you modified games?

Oh, and you also have to consider that they would need to double check the files, to make sure they are all the correct numbers...
And make sure that the toggle to convert states to TT also works and is bug free...
And also need to make sure that all weapons are in fact reading at stock value...
All that for no additional income.

Everything takes time. Time costs money. Even something that seems simple to us is not as simple as we think it is.

Tesuni, you live under the rock of something? Do you even do other games then this? Many, many games have feature in the UI where you can check out which file you want to load. Just like right now with this promised buttons. There is no magic here. They don`t need to double check anything. If we talk about BT weapon stats, all was here before, so the file I`m sure is just there on some HD as well. Even if not, changing 4 fracking parameters in some xml is not a BIG deal, you are delusional if you think that this would require crazy amount of work to do, double, tripple checking or whatever rubbish you will come with, there is just a will to do something or not.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 09 September 2016 - 10:02 PM.

[Ovion]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 09 September 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

Tesuni, you live under the rock of something? Do you even do other games then this? Many, many games have feature in the UI where you can check out which file you want to load. Just like right now with this promised buttons. There is no magic here. They don`t need to double check anything. If we talk about BT weapon stats, all was here before, so the file I`m sure is just there on some HD as well. Even if not, changing 4 fracking parameters in some xml is not a BIG deal, you are delusional if you think that this would require crazy amount of work to do, double, tripple checking or whatever rubbish you will come with, there is just a will to do something or not.

Oh, so we'll just set ALL stats to TT value then and not check anything. Piece of cake.

It would require a changing system writing, implementing, bug checking, then any fixes.
They'll need to apply and confirm values in this alternate system.

You don't seem to understand, that while much if it may be relatively simple, it's still a few days, maybe even 1-2 weeks of work, for 1-2 (maybe more) people, at roughly $200+ per person, per day of work.

Everything they make, has to take that into account - it needs to justify the value.
Just the changing-to-stock-loadout and turn-off-quirks system is going to take them a few days of overall work, which really there's no actual return for.

Then this free-to-user, but 'relatively simple system', will also interact with other systems, may cause bugs / problems that need fixing, and further hidden development costs down the line.

Add in 'create an alternate weapon damage, range, heat, etc' system, would take additional days - also for no actual or direct return.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Ovion, on 09 September 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

Oh, so we'll just set ALL stats to TT value then and not check anything. Piece of cake.

It would require a changing system writing, implementing, bug checking, then any fixes.
They'll need to apply and confirm values in this alternate system.

You don't seem to understand, that while much if it may be relatively simple, it's still a few days, maybe even 1-2 weeks of work, for 1-2 (maybe more) people, at roughly $200+ per person, per day of work.

Everything they make, has to take that into account - it needs to justify the value.
Just the changing-to-stock-loadout and turn-off-quirks system is going to take them a few days of overall work, which really there's no actual return for.

Then this free-to-user, but 'relatively simple system', will also interact with other systems, may cause bugs / problems that need fixing, and further hidden development costs down the line.

Add in 'create an alternate weapon damage, range, heat, etc' system, would take additional days - also for no actual or direct return.

At a side of things that you have no blue idea about, in one thing you are really wrong. We pay, so of course there is direct return.

[Ovion]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 10 September 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

At a side of things that you have no blue idea about, in one thing you are really wrong. We pay, so of course there is direct return.

No, I'm not wrong.
We do not pay specifically for the Stock Mech button.
We are not directly creating profit for it, or paying them directly to do it there's no specific link.

It's something of indirect value.
And really, one that may not be profitable - the question is, how many sales (MC, packages, gifts) will people buy because of the Stock Mech Button in private matches?
There may be 10 purchases influenced by its introduction, there may be 1, there may be none.

Direct Return is for things like Mechs and Cosmetics, as the work there is paid for directly, with an exact metric - i.e. - say the Urbie sold 10,000 standard packages, that's a direct return of $200,000 for the overheads (wages, property, consumables, electricity, hardware, etc).

Things like maps, game modes, events, features, etc, that aren't purchased and are just made available, are indirect returns, due to these things it provides the framework for the game and encourages people to play and pay.

So everything is a cost vs risk vs return analysis.

For a new map, it takes them 1-3 months to create for 2-5 people, there'll be an insurgence of players returning, who will likely purchase new packages or MC for items they hadn't seen since the last time. This should provide a reasonable indirect return.

Events that will take a day or two to prep, will bring in new players and encourage older players and leave bits of MC, or offer single mechs meaning people need more MC and more mechs to elite/master them. This should provide a reasonable indirect return.

A Stock Mech in Private button, which for even basic functionality (button, stock mechs, quirks off), will take easily, 3-14 days of manpower at $200+ a day (even though it might take 2-3 people less time, same equation) has no direct return, it's also a small sub-community of MWO (a few dozen players), who may or may not actually buy anything because of it - maybe some premium time for less-than-12-vs-12 matches, assuming they don't have it anyway from previous purchases.
This means it has a very low potential of indirect return, and may require bug fixes in the future.

Adding additional things, such as stock values massively increases the relative workload, and needing new systams, the potential for bugs.

I've done basic coding.
I've done databasing.
I've ran and run businesses.
I've looked into how much the people at PGI make.
I've followed MWO's development and know how much of a patched together mess their coding is. (Remember, they can't do switching Ammo types, because they don't actually know how the code that runs that system works after a previous staff member left, and the work required outweighed the value of getting them back, working it out or rewriting it.)

[Hoffenstein]

Will this be starting back up when the Stock Only/No Quirks options are released?

[Ovion]

Hoffenstein, on 10 September 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Will this be starting back up when the Stock Only/No Quirks options are released?

Should do.

If it doesn't / Tigerlily doesn't return, I might do my own.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Ovion, on 10 September 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

I've followed MWO's development and know how much of a patched together mess their coding is. (Remember, they can't do switching Ammo types, because they don't actually know how the code that runs that system works after a previous staff member left, and the work required outweighed the value of getting them back, working it out or rewriting it.)

Ok that`s the only thing that can support they code retardation. But really, we just don`t know.
If that is true about they code, this game is just an untouchable mess.
No game that I know would have such a problems about simple stats, and really I don`t think is a case here. No one code anything like this. But then again is PGI right?

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 10 September 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[Ovion]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 10 September 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Ok that`s the only thing that can support they code retardation. But really, we just don`t know.
If that is true about they code, this game is just an untouchable mess.
No game that I know would have such a problems about simple stats, and really I don`t think is a case here. No one code anything like this. But then again is PGI right?

In large part it's due to the IGP thing, where they had some sway over staff / there was high turnover / things were a mess.

The point wasn't that coding this thing is necessarily a problem, it's that it might cause future problems that would need fixing and that it's all development time, which is all cost, which doesn't have any direct return.

Now if someone basically went 'Hey, here's $5,000 dollars if you implement this system', that would probably be worth it (though it may need more, say $10,000 - remember the Urbanmech needed to make X money to make it worth it (confirmed around $6,000 in sales, estimated 10-20k needed), and the main thing that needed was a size 60 engine and 360 degree torso twist to work), it'd cover the cost of development and provide some direct profit.

At the end of the day, it IS a business and even in a free to play title, everything needs paying for and PGI isn't a small studio which will drive costs up.

Edited by Ovion, 10 September 2016 - 03:32 PM.

[Kh0rn]

I have come back, bringing my Atlas from the out skirts of the periphery hope to rejoin this classic mech matches if they still are going. Not much interest to play the normal game.

[TygerLily]

STOCK MODE, T-MINUS 4 DAYS.

THIS IS NOT A DRILL.

https://mwomercs.com...-1484-20sep2016

[TygerLily]

Should we finally retire this thread and start a new one for "Stock Mech Mayhem"? Whatever night works best, we can all meet up and party.

Who wants to be the co-conspirators for Operation Mayhem?

[Aeolus Drift]

Let the Madness Begin!!!

[Jaeger Gonzo]

And no modules as well!! Sweet.
We need this time more euro friendly time.
I propose:

20:00 pm GMT
Monday
Wednesday
Friday
Sunday

If just one day we may have to choose from, I propose sunday. Is best, most people are in homes in that day.


Sunday

[Ovion]

TygerLily, on 16 September 2016 - 10:12 PM, said:

Should we finally retire this thread and start a new one for "Stock Mech Mayhem"? Whatever night works best, we can all meet up and party.

Who wants to be the co-conspirators for Operation Mayhem?

Hey, you live!

Yes, a new thread would be good.

You have the weight of 91 pages here, but that could be 'daunting' to new players, and might muddy the waters a little, so a 'clean start' may be good.

I'll work on the infographic and modify it for stock button-ry so it's ready, and If you want to send me a PM we can coordinate, and you can just put it in the new op / let me know of any extra info to include.

Additionally, I have a private TS that we could easily have up to 24 or so people in for SMM if needed.

[UltraMek]

Hey, Tyger and I spoke on reddit and I've offered my units comms ts.clanjadefalcon.com (plenty of room), and selected the first Stock Mech Mayhem night as the Wed after the patch at 9 or 10 PM EST. Tyger also said hes gonna start a new thread, Ill piggyback on that when I see him put it up.