232 replies to this topic

[Zerberus]

If the OP would reflect on his statements before making them, he would maybe realize that his statement is akin to

"DAMN STEWARDESSES!!! Stop serving me drinks and fly the goddamn plane faster!!"

But alas, as >50% of the posts in this thread alone clearly point out, argumentation based on rational thinking, logic, and actual facts is beyond the scope of the both the initial whine and the rhetorical capacity of most of those jumping on the bandwagon.

And yet despite this, somehow these petty children still feel that the devs should treat them like responsible, mature adults? *facepalm*

Edited by Zerberus, 01 May 2014 - 02:55 AM.

[That Dawg]

AUSwarrior24, on 25 April 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

With all due respect, do you guys really know that much about game development?

Yes.

[Corvus Antaka]

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

As the CEO of your organisation, is it your policy to release your business cost basis to the public arena where your competitors can review and tailor their offerings accordingly? Do you publish fully detailed P&L statements for community overview? How do your shareholders feel about this?

Also, is it your company policy to provide your employees salaries to the general public. If so, can you advise how you protect your staff from being poached by your competitiors utilising that data and making highers offers to key staff. How do you also stop staff from internal comparisons on "who makes what" and the judgemental behaviour that is often associated with those conversations.

Not that I am disputing your question or its basis, I just wonder why the type of information you are seeking would ever be considered as something a consumer or the general public would be entitled to. It's certainly not the case in my country.

Thanks

More evasion, less answers.

As the CEO, it is my policy to make sure money doesn't get squandered and my employees actually perform well.

"Why does a map cost $250,000 to make?"

Answer the question, or be silent.

Why can no one answer this question logically and provide a rational answer to justify the expense?

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 01 May 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 May 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

More evasion, less answers.

As the CEO, it is my policy to make sure money doesn't get squandered and my employees actually perform well.

"Why does a map cost $250,000 to make?"

Answer the question, or be silent.

Why can no one answer this question logically and provide a rational answer to justify the expense?

How can I be evading, do you seriously expect me to have the answer?

More importantly, why are you evading?

You should be able to answer these simple questions about the company you are the CEO for.

Are you in the habit of disclosing your employers cost structures to the general population or your customers.

Is it your company policy to disclose personal salaries to the wider community. If so, how do you handle the backlash for revealing personal details like that to other people.

As the CEO, you should be able to answer these questions. Indeed, if you refuse to, perhaps it's best you be silent?

[Galenit]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 April 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Cut the B.S. and give me a straight answer - "why does a map in MWO cost $250,000 to make?"

Have asked this some time ago ...

Judging on the wages in canada for programmers and graphikguys i have only two possible answers found:

1. They pay a lot more then other companies to their slaves.
2. They dont know what they do and take extraordinary long to make a map.


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2989672

Quote

250000 a map,
lets say 1/3 for licenses
lets say another 1/3 for what ever
and 1/3 of payment for the people.

Thats around 80000 for payment.
You say 12.5 an hour is what they get.
Thats 6500 hours for a map
or 800s day with 8 workhours each,
or 8 people working on a map for more then 3 month.

Lets say they get 4000 a month,
then its still 4 people working 100 days on 1 map?

Looks not that believeable for me ...

Edited by Galenit, 01 May 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[Night Rider]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 May 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

"Why does a map cost $250,000 to make?"

Answer the question, or be silent.

Because PGI is money laundering for Canadian mob ok ? that's why the bigger the costs the better

[Stinkeye]

What about Team Fortress 2? That game is almost completely based on community based content. Hell people make a good living off of making items and maps for it, and the maps are great. Think about the resources it frees up to have your players making the content...

[Tom Sawyer]

If and IF PGI everyone gets around to a decent lobby system and map picking it could be:

a) PGI made maps. Tested to mostly work and in the regular map que

Fan made maps. Be a metric ton of these to pick from but if rankings could implementated the good ones would be on top. PGI can make it CLEAR they are not supporting these, anything in them are use at your own risk.

I have faith in the MWO players. Some are seriously talented and even with the cry engine being a bear to work with they could generate some really interesting, diverse, and FUN maps

[Coolant]

MischiefSC, on 25 April 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

In my business, if a customer started a conversation with that sort of tone, regardless of the validity of their comment or request, I'd utterly ignore it. More to the point I would rather fail as a business and die poor then ever, even once, for one moment, reward that sort of demanding entitlement behavior.

It's worth saying that new maps would be great. That we really want some even. Doing so by sounding like a demanding, entitled brat makes me hope that we never get another map again ever. I'd be disappointed in PGI and what they are teaching the human race if they were to release a map in response to someone speaking to them like this.

So, my comment is, please PGI. I beg of you. Don't release any new maps for a couple of months. Just because giving anyone even an erroneous assumption that speaking to anyone, ever, about anything, in this manner results in a positive outcome. Do the human race a favor.

You have never ever worked a register or the front counter for any retail business and you certainly have never owned or bought in to a retail store or you would know that without question, with a rare exception to when a customer is a threat to persons or property, the customer is always right. So get off your high horse and spend a few moments meditating on the fact that not everyone is born with a silver spoon in their mouth and actually have to work for a living.

[Corvus Antaka]

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

How can I be evading, do you seriously expect me to have the answer?

More importantly, why are you evading?

You should be able to answer these simple questions about the company you are the CEO for.

Are you in the habit of disclosing your employers cost structures to the general population or your customers.

Is it your company policy to disclose personal salaries to the wider community. If so, how do you handle the backlash for revealing personal details like that to other people.

As the CEO, you should be able to answer these questions. Indeed, if you refuse to, perhaps it's best you be silent?

Righto Mr spin doctor. Turn this conversation into something about me instead of the continued relevant question. Why waste my time answering and getting into a deflection discussion? That's right, I don't need to. Because my company doesn't fuckup like PGI and IGP constantly do.

One more time.

"Why does it cost PGI $250,000 to make a map?"

[IIIuminaughty]

look there is no excuse. We need more map. Even if CW and Clans come out, at the end of the day we need more maps.
It's time for PGI to either make more maps or let the community make makes. Its less work for them they aren't losing any money.
We have a good community that is actually loyal for PGI. Half of us might be ases but, every company need their fair share of *******, but at the end of the day we still support PGI. Trust us in making maps nothing wrong with that. It's not like we won't still play the maps already made by PGI.

[Roland]

The reality is, you could allow people to make maps, and even if 90% of them are just total garbage, so be it...

Implement a "player map queue" where the maps get cycled through, and let players vote on them when they play them. Make it clear that since the maps are player created, there's no vouching for their quality.

If a map gets a certain percentage of negative votes, then it gets kicked out of rotation.

If it gets a certain percentage of positive votes, it gets flagged for review by PGI, and they can polish it up or do whatever they want to it to make it into the "real" queues.

It ends up being a very low risk endeavor for PGI, and allows them to crowdsource the issues of not only map creation, but map testing as well. And it's effectively done separately from the regular queue.

A potential model that could be looked at for inspiration here is something like the quest creation system on MWO online... If you actually implement some of the feedback systems there, then you can even crowdsource fixing up the maps too... and people would put in that extra effort because they would want to prestige of making the highly rated maps and getting picked as community content winners.

But even without a system as robust as that, given the cryengine already provides a mapeditor for people to use, PGI really doesn't have to implement a ton of stuff to get the ball rolling.

It's not zero effort, to be sure, but I suspect that it could provide two major benefits:
1) It would provide content
2) It would re-engage the community, and show that PGI believes the playerbase actually has something useful to contribute to the product.

[Deathlike]

I'm actually convinced that a "highly rated community built map" would put PGI's work to shame.

That's probably why they aren't shaving money/costs to do it... yet.

Take a serious look at the maps... and how "limited" in vibrant colors there are on them.

Then, take a look at the "paths to combat", how easy/limited your options are. On most maps, the paths are pretty much predetermined for you... whereas in various other games, you are given a 3rd/4th option to get to where you want to go. In MWO... at best, you are given 2 and MAYBE a 3rd option.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 May 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[Craig Steele]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 May 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Righto Mr spin doctor. Turn this conversation into something about me instead of the continued relevant question. Why waste my time answering and getting into a deflection discussion? That's right, I don't need to. Because my company doesn't fuckup like PGI and IGP constantly do.

One more time.

"Why does it cost PGI $250,000 to make a map?"

LOLOLOL, Hilarious.

I don't work for PGI and I'm not Paul so how would I know. Your initial complaint was that Paul didn't answer your questions and I asked you why you are entitled to the information. You're the one who turned it into something else.

But what is interesting is that you have shown just as much aversion to answering questions about your "company" as Paul does (apparently). Questions you should know the answer to.

Best case scenario you know your questions are just as unjustified and the ones I ask you. You're scaremongering to make your point.

The other option is that you're just hypocritical. You have to have your answers but you will not answer anyone else.

In either case, you're view is clearly unreasonable and so I can safely dismiss anything further you may have had to say on the subject.

You may well ask the question of your employees, but you're not the CEO of PGI so you don't get to have any more information than any other consumer or customer in the world.

Have fun out there.

[Endarius]

MischiefSC, on 25 April 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

In my business, if a customer started a conversation with that sort of tone, regardless of the validity of their comment or request, I'd utterly ignore it. More to the point I would rather fail as a business and die poor then ever, even once, for one moment, reward that sort of demanding entitlement behavior.

It's worth saying that new maps would be great. That we really want some even. Doing so by sounding like a demanding, entitled brat makes me hope that we never get another map again ever. I'd be disappointed in PGI and what they are teaching the human race if they were to release a map in response to someone speaking to them like this.

So, my comment is, please PGI. I beg of you. Don't release any new maps for a couple of months. Just because giving anyone even an erroneous assumption that speaking to anyone, ever, about anything, in this manner results in a positive outcome. Do the human race a favor.

I've been here since the beginning, and I agree. These types of threads never go anywhere, because they do not represent the majority. As a community of course we want new content, but since the average player base is older than 7, I think most of use comprehend that new content isn't necessarily good content, and that consistently seeing bug fixes every two weeks with patches is certainly an indication of progress. If it wasn't likely to be viewed by a fair number of idiots to be martyrdom, I wish people who made obnoxious threads like this were simply banned.

[IraqiWalker]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 May 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Righto Mr spin doctor. Turn this conversation into something about me instead of the continued relevant question. Why waste my time answering and getting into a deflection discussion? That's right, I don't need to. Because my company doesn't fuckup like PGI and IGP constantly do.

One more time.

"Why does it cost PGI $250,000 to make a map?"

No offense, but it's kind of hilarious how you're doing everything (almost literally) that you are accusing Craig Steele of. His questions were exactly what you demanded of PGI, and you dodged and evaded all of them without stepping up to the plate.

You accused PGI of dodging and not answering these questions, yet when you were presented with the same demands, you played the dodge game as well. That is kind of hypocritical.

I'm not saying this to insult you or attack you, but just to point out the scenario you're in right now.

If you don't live up to the standards you require of others, how do you expect them to follow those standards?

Edited by IraqiWalker, 01 May 2014 - 08:20 PM.

[Roland]

IraqiWalker, on 01 May 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

No offense, but it's kind of hilarious how you're doing everything (almost literally) that you are accusing Craig Steele of. His questions were exactly what you demanded of PGI, and you dodged and evaded all of them without stepping up to the plate.

You accused PGI of dodging and not answering these questions, yet when you were presented with the same demands, you played the dodge game as well. That is kind of hypocritical.

I'm not saying this to insult you or attack you, but just to point out the scenario you're in right now.

If you don't live up to the standards you require of others, how do you expect them to follow those standards?

Well, Craig Steel isn't paying Panda to play his game.. Craig's not Panda's customer.

[Craig Steele]

Roland, on 01 May 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

Well, Craig Steel isn't paying Panda to play his game.. Craig's not Panda's customer.

I might be? I buy a lot of stuff

But it's kind of irrelevant too.

He is asking questions in a public arena, not a personal letter to PGI so if he can ask them in a public arena, he should be able to answer the ones I ask in the same arena (imo)

I doubt he will though. Because they are unreasonable questions to ask of any company and if he is a real CEO he knows this.

His continued insistence on having an answer to an unrealistic question throws doubt on his motives.

EDIT: Spelling

Edited by Craig Steele, 01 May 2014 - 08:43 PM.

[N0MAD]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 25 April 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

We will be continuing to balance getting more of the New Player Experience in alongside the content everyone else wants. But if player numbers are your concern, there's no better solution than getting involved with New Players and teaching them how to play, and getting them involved in your unit. Some of those New Players may still go, but more will stay thanks to active and friendly mentorship from veteran players.

And how am i to do this?. Do i have a chat lobby to get to know new players, nope.
Do it here on the forums? well PGI and many others tell me that its a small percentage of players that visit the Forums.
So how do i help new players when i cant talk to them? or do you suggest i go full tutorial on them while we are trying to fight a game?.
Ohh wait i will delete my friends of my list so i can add a pug i dont know to it right?
If youre going to make a suggestion make it viable, not something thats not possible to do with any ease.
So tell me how exactly i try help people?, you have given me no tools at all.

Edited by N0MAD, 01 May 2014 - 08:57 PM.

[CrashieJ]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 May 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

"Why does it cost PGI $250,000 to make a map?"

Because SO ******* MANY OF YOU can't answer the god damn question, I'm gonna put on my big boy pants and do what you people can't.

So here's one of those things you're supposed to use when detailing projects... I learned in my PROJECT MANAGEMENT course last semester

Task Name

Map Project Total Cost

$250,000.00

Starting Costs

$10,000.00

Wages

$120,000.00

Lower Level Applicants

$20,000.00

Artists

$50,000.00

Programmers

$30,000.00

Testers

$5,000.00

Misc. Wages

$15,000.00

Server Side Support

$80,000.00

On-Site Server Upgrades

$20,000.00

On-Site Server Upkeep

$40,000.00

Of-Site Server Storage

$20,000.00

Project Management

$10,000.00

Charter and Plan

$2,000.00

Status Reports

$2,000.00

Distribution

$3,000.00

Week 1 Support

$3,000.00

Misc. costs

$20,000.00

Ending costs

$10,000.00

Are you happy? ARE YOU ******* HAPPY?

Edited by gavilatius, 01 May 2014 - 11:08 PM.