65 replies to this topic

[OznerpaG]

can someone please explain to me in what way ECM is overpowered? they look like a waste of tonnage and crits to me

[Ningyo]

Ok first of unless an enemy holds a TAG on you or is very close and has Beagle active probe, or has their own ECM in counter mode and very near you, You are untargetable this means no paperdoll showing where you are damaged, no LRMs or SSRMs can be fired at you. Also you don't get a red triangle above your mech or red box around it making you hard to spot.

Beyond this it also provides these benefits to every friendly mech nearby to you.

Beyond that it prevents all enemy mechs near to you from locking target for LRM and SSRM on any mech anywhere even if the mech is painted by a TAG laser. (unless that mech is you yourself) (if they have BAP it overrides this part)


Since most players do not play on teamspeak and there is no in game communication except the text chat which you have to stop moving firing etc to use, almost the only way for a player to let his teammates know where you are is by targeting them. Since ECM prevents that targeting it makes ambushes very possible even when multiple enemy players see you coming because they cannot communicate that with their group.


It is so powerful many players would take it even if it weighed 5 tons and took 5 crit slots.

[Koniving]

DocBach, on 28 April 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

As much as I hate how ECM works in this game, if a 'Mech I have can use it, I have it on there before anything else.

I wish we had real information warfare that wasn't about shooting the enemy with PPC's or using modules that cost a hundred times more than the ECM equipment.

At the very least, I wish ECM didn't give the invisibility cloak that it's NOT supposed to have without Stealth Armor and the loss of 12 slots. It's more than efficient at delaying locks when targetable but not hard-countered, proving it doesn't need to be 'invisible'.

[Lostdragon]

JagdFlanker, on 15 May 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

can someone please explain to me in what way ECM is overpowered? they look like a waste of tonnage and crits to me

ECM makes you and allies within 180 meters unable to be targeted or seen by sensors at normal ranges (so no magic Dorito, only way to know they are there is the good ol' Mark I Eyeball). When you are targeted it slows down missile lock time by 50% and target info gathering (when the enemy sees your current health and loadout) by 25%. It can be countered only by another ECM, BAP (at short ranges, mostly useful for streaks), and UAV.

These advantages give not only the mech with ECM but any nearby allies a big leg up on the enemy. ECM is currently in my opinion the most powerful piece of equipment in the game. There is nothing else you can spend 2 crit slots and 1.5 tons on that gives you as much of an advantage as ECM.

[Koniving]

JagdFlanker, on 15 May 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

can someone please explain to me in what way ECM is overpowered? they look like a waste of tonnage and crits to me

As Lost Dragon here says above me and my post before it...

Currently ECM gives you and is supposed to give you, Guardian ECM's abilities to 'deny information' (which would be in the form of a Yellow Square that simply says 'UNKNOWN' with no other information. But still targetable at some delay in lock-on. Technically its supposed to be able to hide enemies [or allies] within 180mm which it did up until part of that got removed). Guided missiles like "standard LRMs and Streaks are not affected by ECM and will lock on like normal."

But... here they are affected. (Streaks that is; I don't count LRMs because lets be honest we don't have standard LRMs in this game. LRMs as this game has them should have a lock on delay, which the game already has installed anyway even if you could target the ECM). Affecting streaks is a trait of Angel ECM. Except Angel ECM cannot prevent "Streaks" from firing, just make them fire 'dumb' like MWO's SRMs.

However, MWO's ECM blocks Streaks from firing at all (making it more powerful than the superior Angel ECM). Why?

It also prevents LRMs from achieving locks at all and being able to track the 'unknown' ECM user. That is a trait of Stealth Armor. It shares this 'invisibility' with allies close to it. That's a trait of Stealth Armor on EVERY mech within 180 meters.

For one player, that's 12 slots lost as dynamic armor. But to spread it to them all, every single one of those players should also lose 12 building slots to stealth armor, severely reducing their space for weapons/heatsinks/etc. What does not doing this result in? A one-sided massacre.

Now, the thing is even in the source rules, the only mechs that can use stealth armor have to have an ECM on them, so that 'invisbility cloak' would NOT hide anyone else. Instead, at best the Guardian ECM could do is spam 'ghost targets' or fake targets to make targeting the ECM carrier and/or its comrades a little difficult (requiring hitting R until you get on the 'correct' target).

Watch what the enemy team here does.

The whole "being invisible" thing wouldn't happen without losing 12 slots.

Edited by Koniving, 27 May 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Geeks On Hugs, on 27 April 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

I would definitely USE it but ECM should be a rare ability. It is very powerful and as it is a heavily ECMed team can be hard to beat. It renders LRMs useless for starters.

I think the amount of mech variants that support ECM right now is just about right...obviously some clan mechs will need to support them too. I love ECM and play it heavily myself but I understand that that limits my chassis choices as it should be.

LRMS are op. ECM forces LRM boats to use skill in hunting out their targets and choosing them wisely. More ecm PLEASE!

[DAEDALOS513]

Magnakanus, on 29 April 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

I voted "No. (I don't want more mechs having it.)". ECM already provides an umbrella to all mechs within 180m, so 1 ECM can cover most if not all team members if they "death-ball".

Get rid of the umbrella and make ECM work only on the mech that equips it and maybe we can think about increasing the number of mechs with ECM.

Are you kidding me? If they 'death ball' that's when you let rip an arty strike! This is what you, as an enemy, WANT to see happen!

One more mech should be given ECM, probably a medium mech (say the Treb or Shadowhawk).

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 16 May 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[Jacon Ceronia]

Dear PGI,

Please balance the number of ECM units per team before you attempt to fix 3^4.

[Nansar]

X5 needs it because it doesn't have ams, you certainly dont proffer any logic as to why those mechs above would need it. if anything they should give it to the gimpiest most unplayed mechs.

Livewyr, on 27 April 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Poll says it all.

Would you use ECM more if it was available on more mechs? Some heavier mediums and heavies, and the lighter assaults?

[Edit: Added additional answers for those who wouldn't use it on principle.]

[Livewyr]

DAEDALOS513, on 16 May 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

LRMS are op. ECM forces LRM boats to use skill in hunting out their targets and choosing them wisely. More ecm PLEASE!

I really hope you're joking.. but I suspect you're not.

DAEDALOS513, on 16 May 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Are you kidding me? If they 'death ball' that's when you let rip an arty strike! This is what you, as an enemy, WANT to see happen!

One more mech should be given ECM, probably a medium mech (say the Treb or Shadowhawk).

ECM needs to be *re-done* and then given to its Lore Variants and a few more outside of that. (Same with AMS)

For someone talking about OP (Skill-Reduced) LRMs, you seem to love the idea of adding more incidents of "1.5ton Insta-skill."

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Lore wise, ECM was not a 'Plug in Play' component.

It required extensive rebuilding of the Mechs systems to be able to operate under it's influence. ECM effected almost every system designed into the Mech from the active sensors, heat profile, system shielding, to the electromagnetic profile output. The fabrication facilities needed to design and build the chassis with this capability in mind. It could not be randomly 'slapped into any Mech' and expect that chassis to function normally.

If, and I mean if, PGI does decide to offer additional Mech variants with the capability to mount that system, they will need to be 'NEW' variants of what we have now in the line up. Specialized chassis, built from the ground up to operate that system and fulfil the role it was designed for. And at a substantial additional cost.

Currently our ECM Mechs fall into scout, spotter, and command versions, perhaps as Role Warfare is folded into the game play we may see some changes in what systems become available to the chassis we have.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 18 May 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Livewyr]

I personally would like more realism in the mechlab.. but given that we can just change out entire structure types at a click.. the ECM thing would be out of step.

If they'd just make it resemble Battletech Guardian ECM, that'd be much better.

[Foxwalker]

Baby steps on the changes for ECM. I would like to see it be a little more fragile. Give it 1 or 2 more crit chances, after all it is delicate electronics. The only mech I see that could really use an ECM variant is the Locust.

[Nightmare1]

I think part of the issue is that the Mechs listed aren't particularly known for running ECM. I personally would like more ECM capable Mechs, but I want them to be ECM'ed canonically.

[Adamski]

Fix ECM before adding more of it, kk thx

[Knight_Invictus]

I'd like to see EMC on weaker mechs, especially Locust and Centurian. Maybe Awesome too. Not all but maybe one chassis each, like Raven and Atlas.

Knight4Him

[Rasc4l]

Knight4Him, on 28 May 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

I'd like to see EMC on weaker mechs, especially Locust and Centurian. Maybe Awesome too. Not all but maybe one chassis

We don't necessarily have to give ECM for all those mechs mentioned above and in the OP. Just adjusting the range at which mechs can detect enemies and are detected by the enemy will already help a lot. I suggested something like that here, which would make, for example, the locust to have a very low sensor profile. Almost like ECM but without the disruption.

[Zyllos]

My vote for ECM is to fix ECM to not be a team cover but instead a scouting tool.

Then remove ECM from mechs that never had it in the first place (CDA-3M, COM-2M, and AS7-D-DC) and then start releasing mechs that are suppose to have it.

Edited by Zyllos, 27 August 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference ECM:

From the official Tech and Advanced Rules, ECM:

there are only a few available Mech's (up to the 3050 timeline) that actually mounted that item as a stock piece of equipment.
~ after the Invasion started and well into the next 10yrs many chassis appear with ECM as included equipment.

Some of the following Mech's we have, some we do not have.

- This is a shortened version, there are 92 Mech's produced from the Star League era up to the 3050 timeline that have ECM as standard.
- Some of these chassis left during the Exodus and the Tech was lost to the IS during the following wars.

IMP IMP-1B, -1C. 100T, Yr. avail. 2921, 2825
Stalker STK-3Fb. 85T, Yr. avail. 2705 (Royal variant, all left in the Exodus)
Bowman - 4, 2, and Standard model. 70T, Yr. avail. 2923, 2974, 2973
Cataphract CTF-0X. 70T, Yr. avail. 3025
Dragoon AEM-01. 70T, Yr. avail. 2771
Loki (Hellbringer) Prime. 65T, Yr. avail. 2926
Griffin GRF-2N. 55T, Yr. avail. 2751
Hoplite HOP-4Bb. 55T, Yr. avail. 2795
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1b, -1c (both 'special'), Yr. avail. 2760, 2784
Shadow Cat B. 45T, Yr. avail. 3003
Raven RVN-3L, 1X, 3X. 35T, Yr. avail. 3048, 3024, 3028
Firestarter FS9-S1. 35T, Yr. avail. 3049
Uller (KitFox) C. 30T, Yr. avail. 3050
Hermes HER-3S2, and -3S1. 30T, Yr. avail. 3049 (both)
Hankyu (Artic Cheetah) Prime. 30T, Yr. avail. 3037
Koshi (Mist Lynx) C. 25T, Yr. avail. 2926
Dasher (Fire Moth) B. 20T, Tr. avail. 2874

And there's the one's that that we have in game now.

(note here, the Cicada (all 8 variants) is NOT listed as having any ECM)
(note here: The Atlas D-DC is NOT listed as having ECM till the S2 chassis in 3061)

Reference: the BattleTech Master List

- These are the filters I used:
Rules: Standard, Advanced, Experimental, Introductory, Era Specific
/ Production Eras Star League, Early Succession War, Late Succession War, Clan Invasion
/ Types BattleMech
/ Sub Types BattleMech, OmniMech
/ Techs Inner Sphere, Clan
/ Has BF Ability ECM

So, it is not that we need more ECM on the Mech's we have. We just need more Mech's designed that had it as 'Stock' equipment.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 27 August 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[Zyllos]

9erRed, on 27 August 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Greetings all,

Reference ECM:

From the official Tech and Advanced Rules, ECM:

there are only a few available Mech's (up to the 3050 timeline) that actually mounted that item as a stock piece of equipment.
~ after the Invasion started and well into the next 10yrs many chassis appear with ECM as included equipment.

Some of the following Mech's we have, some we do not have.

- This is a shortened version, there are 92 Mech's produced from the Star League era up to the 3050 timeline that have ECM as standard.
- Some of these chassis left during the Exodus and the Tech was lost to the IS during the following wars.

IMP IMP-1B, -1C. 100T, Yr. avail. 2921, 2825
Stalker STK-3Fb. 85T, Yr. avail. 2705 (Royal variant, all left in the Exodus)
Bowman - 4, 2, and Standard model. 70T, Yr. avail. 2923, 2974, 2973
Cataphract CTF-0X. 70T, Yr. avail. 3025
Dragoon AEM-01. 70T, Yr. avail. 2771
Loki (Hellbringer) Prime. 65T, Yr. avail. 2926
Griffin GRF-2N. 55T, Yr. avail. 2751
Hoplite HOP-4Bb. 55T, Yr. avail. 2795
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1b, -1c (both 'special'), Yr. avail. 2760, 2784
Shadow Cat B. 45T, Yr. avail. 3003
Raven RVN-3L, 1X, 3X. 35T, Yr. avail. 3048, 3024, 3028
Firestarter FS9-S1. 35T, Yr. avail. 3049
Uller (KitFox) C. 30T, Yr. avail. 3050
Hermes HER-3S2, and -3S1. 30T, Yr. avail. 3049 (both)
Hankyu (Artic Cheetah) Prime. 30T, Yr. avail. 3037
Koshi (Mist Lynx) C. 25T, Yr. avail. 2926
Dasher (Fire Moth) B. 20T, Tr. avail. 2874

And there's the one's that that we have in game now.

(note here, the Cicada (all 8 variants) is NOT listed as having any ECM)
(note here: The Atlas D-DC is NOT listed as having ECM till the S2 chassis in 3061)

Reference: the BattleTech Master List

- These are the filters I used:
Rules: Standard, Advanced, Experimental, Introductory, Era Specific
/ Production Eras Star League, Early Succession War, Late Succession War, Clan Invasion
/ Types BattleMech
/ Sub Types BattleMech, OmniMech
/ Techs Inner Sphere, Clan
/ Has BF Ability ECM

So, it is not that we need more ECM on the Mech's we have. We just need more Mech's designed that had it as 'Stock' equipment.

9erRed

Your missing one, COM-2D can equip GECM in MWO.