19 replies to this topic

[Xustalax]

Hello, I was wondering if I increase sensor range with GXP will i get more missile lock distance?

[AlmightyAeng]

Xustalax, on 28 April 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Hello, I was wondering if I increase sensor range with GXP will i get more missile lock distance?

Adv. Sensor range will do the following:

1) Boosts sensor range 25% from 800m to 1000m (So, yes, you'll be able to lock missiles farther out, because you'll SEE things farther out)

If you wanna be "super cool" with your missiles, load up a BAP, too. Well worth the 1.5 tons. It will do the following:

1) Increase sensor range by 25% (just like the module)
2) Decrease target info time by 25% (see what your target loadout/what's damaged faster)
3) Counter ECM within 150m (a light mech at your feet will no longer negate your ability to get locks on targets).

Edited by Ghost Badger, 28 April 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[mailin]

Ghost Badger nailed it.

[Gtbuck]

If memory serves, I ran into GhostBadger quite a few times last night, he knows what he's talking about.

Not much more to add other than if you're wanting to run a lot of lrms being able to get locks at 1000 meters is huge and stacking BAP and Adv sensor range really helps. Keep in mind that you still don't want to fire those LRMs at anything over 1000 meters unless the target is unaware or is moving in your direction. Where the range helps is being able to target the enemy so you can see loadouts and relay this information to your team.
Despite the range of 1000 meters in my opinion 600-800 meters is really the sweet spot.

[Redshift2k5]

Missile locks are not range dependant- you can lock on to a target way over 1000m as long as an ally is somewhere in the middle to pass on the data. Of course, this does nothing to extend the maximum range of your missiles, which stays at 1000m - missiles fired at a target over 1000m away will explode in mid-air and not reach their target.

If you don't have an ally spotting for you, then yes, you can extend your own personal sensor range with both a BAP and the sensor range module, but this requires you to have a very long line of sight on an enemy. LRMs fired at very long distances are also easier to avoid and overall much less effective.

[Spheroid]

Target Decay is the far more important module IMHO. I just use sensor range for the spotting assists.

[IraqiWalker]

Xustalax, on 28 April 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Hello, I was wondering if I increase sensor range with GXP will i get more missile lock distance?

For LRMs, yes. Ghost Badger nailed it, I won't add to that, just that missiles have a max range, LRMs = 1000M, and Streak SRM2s = 270M

[AlmightyAeng]

Ghost Badger, on 28 April 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

Adv. Sensor range will do the following:

1) Boosts sensor range 25% from 800m to 1000m (So, yes, you'll be able to lock missiles farther out, because you'll SEE things farther out)

If you wanna be "super cool" with your missiles, load up a BAP, too. Well worth the 1.5 tons. It will do the following:

1) Increase sensor range by 25% (just like the module)
2) Decrease lock time by 25% (faster locks)
3) Counter ECM within 150m (a light mech at your feet will no longer negate your ability to get locks on targets).

I suppose I should add that the question of "Do they stack?" doesn't really matter. Once your LRM's hit 1000, that's their MAX distance...and they instantly explode. They won't travel past that.

So, basically, if you have the tonnage for it, grab the BAP instead of the module. If you're in a light mech WITHOUT streaks and you're scouting and like the extra sensor range, grab the module, because that 1.5 tons is better spent elsewhere.

I agree with Spheroid...on an LRM mech, decay is MUCH more useful, as your targets will be trying to get out of sigh. Target Decay keeps your missiles locked on longer after they leave your line of sight (or the line of sight of a teammate).

Edited by Ghost Badger, 28 April 2014 - 09:36 AM.

[Tiios]

Ghost Badger, on 28 April 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

Adv. Sensor range will do the following:

1) Boosts sensor range 25% from 800m to 1000m (So, yes, you'll be able to lock missiles farther out, because you'll SEE things farther out)

If you wanna be "super cool" with your missiles, load up a BAP, too. Well worth the 1.5 tons. It will do the following:

1) Increase sensor range by 25% (just like the module)
2) Decrease lock time by 25% (faster locks)
3) Counter ECM within 150m (a light mech at your feet will no longer negate your ability to get locks on targets).

I believe #2 is a common misconception. It does not decrease lock on time for faster locks. It decrease target info acquisition time.

http://mwo.gamepedia...le_Active_Probe
(I don't know what's up with mwo.gamepedia.com recently. They haven't been updating info from the latest patches.)

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
(Scroll down to the modules and highlight the effects)

http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/

Quote

BAP
[color=#00FFFF]Now here's the biggie. BAP is meant to increase your sensor range by amplifying your sensor systems. It allows you to get detail targeting information faster and also allows you to detect nearby shutdown Mechs. Yeah? So?... well...[/color]

Personally I have no use for BAP in my LRM boat. IMO:
1) Range on LRM are only useful < 600 meters as far as on target and hitting with Artemis since you need LoS. Less travel time and less chance of them ducking to cover. I like making the most of my ammo. Again, IMO...
2) Decreased target acquisition time helps with my brawler, not my LRM boat.
3) Might be useful for targeting shutdown mechs but I've had far and few between to justify the 1.5 tons for it.

Edited by Tiios, 28 April 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Tiios, on 28 April 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

I believe #2 is a common misconception. It does not decrease lock on time for faster locks. It decrease target info acquisition time.

http://mwo.gamepedia...le_Active_Probe
(I don't know what's up with mwo.gamepedia.com recently. They haven't been updating info from the latest patches.)

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
(Scroll down to the modules and highlight the effects)

http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/

Yup! My bad! I got it mixed up with the 50% faster lock artemis has.

[Zeede]

As MWO stands today, the only mechs that really *need* a BAP are Streak boats. Honestly I think it's a waste of tonnage on anything else.

[LauLiao]

Spheroid, on 28 April 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

Target Decay is the far more important module IMHO. I just use sensor range for the spotting assists.

Agree that Decay is more useful for missile boats, but at 2 million vs 8, Sensor Range could be more manageable for a new player.

Tiios, on 28 April 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Personally I have no use for BAP in my LRM boat. IMO:
1) Range on LRM are only useful < 600 meters as far as on target and hitting with Artemis since you need LoS. Less travel time and less chance of them ducking to cover. I like making the most of my ammo. Again, IMO...
2) Decreased target acquisition time helps with my brawler, not my LRM boat.
3) Might be useful for targeting shutdown mechs but I've had far and few between to justify the 1.5 tons for it.

Don't forget it counteracts one ECM now too, so you're not completely shutdown when you've got a Raven facehugging you. That's really the most useful aspect.

Edited by LauLiao, 28 April 2014 - 12:46 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

I used to run Adv. Sensor Range but never run with it anymore on my LRM boats. No point in shooting LRMs from 800-1000m really. I don't even bother past 500-600m most of the time.

[Tiios]

LauLiao, on 28 April 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

Don't forget it counteracts one ECM now too, so you're not completely shutdown when you've got a Raven facehugging you. That's really the most useful aspect.

ECM disrupts at 180m. Min range for LRM is 180m. Not going to help with the little one nut hugging you unless you like shooting blanks. I guess you could carry BAP to counter it so you can target someone else outside the 180m but I would imagine the nut hugger is more of a threat at that range. Also, my 3 MPLs would help a little. It'll tickle them like Elmo does anyways.

[Kjudoon]

The two modules you always load as a missile boat are:

1. Advanced Sensor Range
2. Advanced Target Decay

There's basically no reason to not have these on an LRM mech. Spend the GXP and CBills to get them on your mech asap.

[Shlkt]

BAP + Advanced Sensor Range offer another advantage that nobody has mentioned yet, and one which IMO might be more valuable than super-long-range missile locks. Against an ECM-shielded enemy, the Advanced Sensor Range module along with BAP provide you increased missile lock range, even without TAG.

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong...)

Without the above buffs, ECM mechs cannot be locked beyond 200 meters. Since they jam you at 180 meters that's only a 20 meter window for achieving a lock without TAG; basically impossible to utilize. If you use both BAP + Adv Sensors, though, you can achieve a lock out to 300 meters. That's a pretty nice increase, and at 200 to 300 meters you can score hits more reliably than at 800+ meters.

You'll still want TAG, though, if you rely heavily on missiles.

Edited by Shlkt, 29 April 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Shlkt, on 29 April 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

BAP + Advanced Sensor Range offer another advantage that nobody has mentioned yet, and one which IMO might be more valuable than super-long-range missile locks. Against an ECM-shielded enemy, the Advanced Sensor Range module along with BAP provide you increased missile lock range, even without TAG.

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong...)

Without the above buffs, ECM mechs cannot be locked beyond 200 meters. Since they jam you at 180 meters that's only a 20 meter window for achieving a lock without TAG; basically impossible to utilize. If you use both BAP + Adv Sensors, though, you can achieve a lock out to 300 meters. That's a pretty nice increase, and at 200 to 300 meters you can score hits more reliably than at 800+ meters.

You'll still want TAG, though, if you rely heavily on missiles.

I regularly run with alll three pieces of equipment in various combos on various mechs.

The three pieces of aiming equipment right now are kinda borked as of a month ago. I'm not quite sure why, but many times, I've used TAG on ECM mechs to have nothing register. No target box, nothing. It used to be that you'd get target, but it would sometimes take time to lock on when you were trying. Now, nothing till you get the target box... IF you get the target box to show up, then you have to wait even longer for the targetting to lock. I've seen increases of up to 20+ seconds personally on targets inside 500m and outside 200m where nothing happened.

As for BAP, it too has been borked. It is supposed to cancel a single ECM source inside 180m. That happens maybe 10% of the time where I will see the 'counter ecm'' show up when I have a leg humping light or I snuck up behind a DDC. Again, this got worse with the first April patch. Something in the code I suspect was changed accidentally (probably the case) or deliberately.

Regardless, both these items that used to be highly helpful are only occasionally helpful and only against non ECM mechs which is not their prime purpose.

Artemis is the only one that seems to work just fine, but it does not do too much to improve LRM5s and might not be worth the weight. SRMs though... yeah... need to take it.

Edited by Kjudoon, 29 April 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[Shlkt]

Quote

It is supposed to cancel a single ECM source inside 180m.

Not quite. BAP range is only 150m (which is confusing because CECM has 180m range). So within the 150-180m range band a single ECM 'Mech can still disrupt your missile locks. This can be very disruptive if your target keeps running in and out of that range band, as it will repeatedly interrupt the missile lock cycle.

Quote

I've used TAG on ECM mechs to have nothing register. No target box, nothing.

TAG is still server-authoritative, so if you're having connection problems such as high latency or packet loss then TAG will suffer the same hit detection issues that your other weapons do.

Also, note that TAG is basically countered by ECM within 180m even if your TAG target is further than 180m. ECM blocks all sharing of target data, which includes TAG'd targets. I'm not sure whether your teammates will see the target as TAG'd, but you definitely won't yourself.

Edited by Shlkt, 29 April 2014 - 10:38 AM.

[Kjudoon]

True, but being right next to a severly big pipe (thank you 1980's military projects) I have a ping of 30-50 almost always and almost never any packet loss... so I don't think it's that.

[Xustalax]

Thank you guys! I've got more info now, so I'm i little less rookie xD
Surprising all the answers I've received allready, good community.