18 replies to this topic

[Apollo777]

hello, i think if c-bills rewards for every match was more so that we could buy much faster new meches, and we needed to buy more mechbay, was good for players and for the owners of MWO, and everybody is happy, i think most of players purchase MC only to buy more mechbays, but it takes agaes to have enough c-bills for new meches! what you think guys? thanks everyone to reply this topic.

[IraqiWalker]

Yeah the grind might seem tedious, but once you get used to the game, and start getting good, you'll be clearing over 120K per drop easily, still not a lot considering you need about 10 Mil just to buy the biggest assault, or buy and fully customized a light, As far as Mechbays go, they are MC only, and honestly, the prices for them are really cheap (about 1 dollar US per mechbay). However, the other side to the grind is the fact that we are also working ont he skills for each mech, so ususaly it takes long enough time to fully elite one mech that we would have enough money afterwards to purchase any mech we want. That way we don't feel like we're wasting time.

EDIT: Also, I think this shouldn't be in the New Player Help forum, but rather in the suggestions forum

Edited by IraqiWalker, 28 April 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Players are already making a fair amount of c-bills- and PGI certainly thinks you have too many c-bills, since they introduced consumables.

Saying that giving players more c-bills could make them buy more mech bays is one way to look at it, but also someone could just as easily say that by giving you fewer c-bills they make you more likely to buy premium time and to buy mechs directly with MC- both of which cost more than simply buying mechbays. Free to play game economics are more complicated than that, but I do not believe they will be giving us any additional c-bill gains without also introducing more c-bill sinks (such as repair/rearm, more consumables, community warfare fees & upkeep, etc)

[IraqiWalker]

Redshift2k5, on 28 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Players are already making a fair amount of c-bills- and PGI certainly thinks you have too many c-bills, since they introduced consumables.

Saying that giving players more c-bills could make them buy more mech bays is one way to look at it, but also someone could just as easily say that by giving you fewer c-bills they make you more likely to buy premium time and to buy mechs directly with MC- both of which cost more than simply buying mechbays. Free to play game economics are more complicated than that, but I do not believe they will be giving us any additional c-bill gains without also introducing more c-bill sinks (such as repair/rearm, more consumables, community warfare fees & upkeep, etc)

Wasn't it going to cost something along the line of 100 Million C-Bills for a corp to have their own dropship?

[TheCaptainJZ]

Apollo777, on 28 April 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

hello, i think if c-bills rewards for every match was more so that we could buy much faster new meches, and we needed to buy more mechbay, was good for players and for the owners of MWO, and everybody is happy, i think most of players purchase MC only to buy more mechbays, but it takes agaes to have enough c-bills for new meches! what you think guys? thanks everyone to reply this topic.

Using your logic, if our cbill intake was doubled, then it would be only half as costly to sell mechs we no longer needed. Then we would be more willing to sell mechs rather than keep buying more mechbays anyway. A player would probably buy several, but not dozens of mechbays. As it is now, it feel like a total waste to sell a mech, so most people keep them and buy mechbays instead of taking the hit on their cbills (varies by mech and player of course).

Also, if players earned cbills faster, then they would be a lot less willing to purchase premium time, which benefits PGI more than a few mechbays does.

So really, the current model makes PGI happier than your proposal does. You just want mechs faster

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 28 April 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Fut]

C-Bill rewards are fine.
We're supposed to Mechwarriors here, not 'Rich Uncle Pennybags the Mech Collector'.

[Yellow Kat]

Fut, on 28 April 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

C-Bill rewards are fine.
We're supposed to Mechwarriors here, not 'Rich Uncle Pennybags the Mech Collector'.

We are also suppost to be able to master piloting a single mech variant without having to pilot the other variants of the same mech. Apparently PGI dose not believe in that.

[Fut]

Yellow Kat, on 28 April 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

We are also suppost to be able to master piloting a single mech variant without having to pilot the other variants of the same mech. Apparently PGI dose not believe in that.

Hmm.. Where'd you read that?

[crossflip]

CBills accumulate a lot faster when you aren't actively grinding them. Just try playing for fun and trying to get better, and don't mope around in the mechlab staring at the prices too much.

And protip: Don't ever sell stuff. EVER. (except for flamers)

[TheCaptainJZ]

crossflip, on 28 April 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

CBills accumulate a lot faster when you aren't actively grinding them. Just try playing for fun and trying to get better, and don't mope around in the mechlab staring at the prices too much.

And protip: Don't ever sell stuff. EVER. (except for flamers)

In general, no, but if you have several of something (like med lasers), and you are the type that strips mechs not in use, sell those redundant parts as well.

[CCC Dober]

Fut, on 28 April 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Hmm.. Where'd you read that?

Try novels for a start. Several notable pilots didn't change their Mechs and achieved true mastery: Jaime Wolf (Archer), Morgan Kell (Archer). Phelan Ward (Wolfhound IIC) and Kai Allard Liao (Yen-Lo-Wang) mastered their Mechs, but didn't stop there. You have to keep in mind that owning/piloting single Mechs, not several variants, is the rule in BT. MWO is a power trip in that regard.

Requiring us to grind through several variants has more to do with PGI trying to sell power/Mechbays than staying true to background. To the detriment of the MWO, as it turns the whole experience into a chore and mainly appeals to whales/collectors with money to skip the grind, rather than motivating all players/customers to expand their horizons. Personally speaking, I fall in the latter category and simply can't be arsed to grind every chassis thrice. And I certainly won't throw money at a problem that actually shouldn't be a problem in the first place (as I have outlined above).

[LiGhtningFF13]

For PGI it's ok this way, cause if it takes too long people will purchase/invest more! It's also about marketing and of course business!

[Koniving]

IraqiWalker, on 28 April 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Wasn't it going to cost something along the line of 100 Million C-Bills for a corp to have their own dropship?

216 million to be exact. 18 million per player with a minimum requirement of 12 players. Though each player could donate any amount to make up for deficiencies from other players.

Though I wonder if Dropships will have any part in the game anymore with 3/3/3/3. They chose against tonnage limits. See first link in signature if you haven't already.

[Koniving]

To be on topic though, if you need more cbills try certain role-related actions. Hit each enemy at least once before they die to get a hefty payout. Use TAG or NARC on a target when they are being hit by missiles. Get a payout per player that hits them with missiles, per enemy!

UAVs can give a pretty big bonus if multiple targets are attacked during it.

It would be nice if as originally mentioned at one point that following a commander's battlegrid laid orders did a small payout. For example defend area and you get a kill in the area you are defending you get a small some extra or credit for a defense kill (even if it's not on the base).

[Redshift2k5]

You only ever needed a dropship if you were a merc anyway, and I don't recall them ever saying the dropship was going to have a tonnage limit. It looked to me like they just wanted to make merc corps a money sink.

[Koniving]

"Merc Unit." Remember that Lone Wolves are considered Mercs (Mercenary Life) but not part of that system. Lone Wolves are simply unaffiliated faction fillers from the CW reveal at the launch party with opportunities to boost income with bounties.

Since slightly off topic, spoilered. 216 million Dropships and reasoned guess uses in Community Warfare from Developer descriptions.

Spoiler

Redshift2k5, on 28 April 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

You only ever needed a dropship if you were a merc anyway, and I don't recall them ever saying the dropship was going to have a tonnage limit. It looked to me like they just wanted to make merc corps a money sink.

The Logistics portion of it. Vid of that part. Dropship/jumpships had a few aspects. Planetary assault for mercs was mentioned as a series of matches (implied that the matches depends on mechs/ships available) to determine the victor. So if I stage 2 dropships above a planet and you stage one, I may have more weight to send onto the planet over the series of matches. This however, over extends me because I have used both of my unit's dropships and have no way to defend other planets until these dropships return home and repair/rearm the mechs. And if I choose to rush to the defense of a planet with remaining forces then I will have failed to garrison the planet I just won and it will become neutral again.

On the other end of this, if you own this planet and have a garrison + sent a dropship in its defense, I may be facing way more tonnage than I ever thought I would if your garrison already has a dropship load of mechs stationed there.

Oh god. I just thought of Herzog Zwei and stationing forces at mini-bases while staging for a large scale assault. But that is fitting with the "chess game" Bryan describes.

To me it limited your range of attack, number of dropships chose how many places your unit could attack at once (even if you have 100+ members if you only have one dropship you can only make one attack at a time). If a planet is attacked that is yours but does not have defenders, you have x amount of time to stage a defense which includes the dropship's travel time. If you don't make it the planet is neutral and when you arrive you may have to fight on neutral ground rather than with your garrison's support to help defend it.

A Garrison sounds as if it is some sort of planetary defense and/or base. Or possibly a number of mechs left behind (as used in the example on my signature link).

However, this is merely extrapolation from what was said and thoughts as to how certain past battletech games with similar descriptions did this. I do admit I have learned better than to have high expectations of a small development team, so it may just as easily be nothing like this.

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[Fut]

CCC Dober, on 28 April 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Try novels for a start. Several notable pilots didn't change their Mechs and achieved true mastery: Jaime Wolf (Archer), Morgan Kell (Archer). Phelan Ward (Wolfhound IIC) and Kai Allard Liao (Yen-Lo-Wang) mastered their Mechs, but didn't stop there. You have to keep in mind that owning/piloting single Mechs, not several variants, is the rule in BT. MWO is a power trip in that regard.

Well, I'll have to take your word on this one, I haven't had the opportunity to delve into the novels much.
Although, I'd find it a bit hard to believe that these characters had only ever piloted 1 Mech Variant in their entire careers (even as rookies).

Completely with you about MWO mucking things up and turning the game into Poke-Mech though. It has people all mixed up, making them think that the game isn't fun/complete/good unless they can buy a new Mech every other day.

CCC Dober, on 28 April 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Requiring us to grind through several variants has more to do with PGI trying to sell power/Mechbays than staying true to background. To the detriment of the MWO, as it turns the whole experience into a chore and mainly appeals to whales/collectors with money to skip the grind, rather than motivating all players/customers to expand their horizons. Personally speaking, I fall in the latter category and simply can't be arsed to grind every chassis thrice. And I certainly won't throw money at a problem that actually shouldn't be a problem in the first place (as I have outlined above).

Have to disagree with you on this point. I don't think the 3 Variant rule is a detriment to the game at all. It better simulates a Pilot actually becoming skilled with a certain Mech - actually, it doesn't even simulate that, you literally become better with a chassis the more you use it. By the time you've unlocked the Elites on 3 Variants, you should be a fairly competent pilot in that Mech.

As for the grind thing... It's all in your head.
Without "the grind" what exactly would MWO be?

Just grab your favourite Mech, head out on the battlefield, and kick some ass... Before you know it, you'll have enough Cbills stacked up that you'll think you're Scrooge McDuck (Cbills are gold coins, right?)

[CCC Dober]

@Fut
Idk if you have been there when we had rearm and repair before, but that alone made things really interesting. There were variants that were simply too expensive to run out of the box. Either because of fragile XL reactors or ammunition costs.

In theory you could pick any variant and go with it, but R&R required that you balanced firepower and expenses in such a way that you wouldn't go bankrupt over time. That's technically not a problem anymore since R&R was removed (temporarily?), but the depth of the game has suffered for it. The differences between variants now boil down to loadouts and ECM/AMS.

While that may seem like an argument for multiple variants to master a Mech, the truth of the matter is that the Mech itself does not change with each variant, only its loadout or addons. It's one thing to master a Mech and a completely different thing to master weapons/loadouts.

In fact, you could argue that skills with certain weapons/loadouts do carry over to other Mechs/variants with similar weapons/loadouts, but not necessarily the skills for the Mechs they are mounted on.

There is no doubt that piloting skills carry over from one variant to the next (jump jets are an exception) because the base chassis is literally the same. That said, I believe the skill system as a whole needs to be looked at more closely and synergies need to come into play instead of forcing people to do the same thing over and over again. Needlessly, if I may add.

As it stands right now, the whole setup (buy mech, grind, buy another variant, grind) does not treat the players as intelligent beings, but rather forces them into a neverending cycle of rinse and repeat for the exact same things. As if we unlearn everything once we buy the same Mech with a different loadout. It's unrealistic and does not hold up to scrutiny in BT and the real world.

The result: confused, bored, unmotivated players/customers. And for the record: I plead guilty in all points.

[wanderer]

Even the most elite types might have a "signature" design, but I guarantee you they rode more than one 'Mech getting there. Jaime Wolf actually piloted CLAN designs before he moved down to the Archer he was known for when the Dragoons went incognito into the Inner Sphere.