13 replies to this topic

[ThunderHorse]

Now I've been reading the forums multiple times a day and this is one thing I'm still trying to wrap my head around. Please point me in the right direction, but all the dev interviews, blogs, and forum speculation have not answered this adequately for me: how does purchasing the Founder's Package impact our mech customization ability?

I recognize we probably cannot answer all these questions until launch or at least open beta. With that said, prepare of incoming wall of text or skip to the end.

LONG VERSION:
Let me elaborate. Let's say I want a Catapult CPLT-K2 and I've purchased the Legendary Founder's Package. So I have 4 shiny, limited edition base variant mechs and 4 open mech bay slots for additional mechs.

I can understand if I have to purchase the CPLT-K2 variant separately. Would it cost as much as a new mech? Would the variant be a new mech, or would it be a major chasis modification? Most importantly, would this variant take up another mech bay slot? Examples I've seen and read about lead me to believe we have 4 open mech slots when we start the game.

Keep in mind in the books all these variant mechs were possible with the proper materials, knowledge, and time. What made Omnimechs so special was that major retrofits such as changing a ballistic hardpoint for an energy hardpoint were simplified by weapon mounts or interchangeable weapon pod systems, making for 31st century Legos, in a way. Field retrofits were a piece of cake. Not that we have to worry about that in MWO, but I can see at least a couple of ways omnimechs can have MWO game mechanic advantages to traditional IS mechs and second-line non-omni clan mechs.

Let me add that after multiple reads the Role (or whatever) Warfare thing is still confusing me at the moment. I appreciate differentiating mechs and variants, but let's think about this logically for a moment. If I really want to get my PPC Catapult on and it costs a whole new mech and a mech bay slot that hurts. Now multiply that by every other variant you may want (such as an Atlas AS7-K with it's increased energy weapons, CASE, and AMS), and suddenly you've got a LOT more mechs than you have storage space. If we have the option to buy mech bay slots (if they aren't unlimited) I will do so after a hearty, manly mechwarior cry. Not that it matters to this discussion but I feel that saps much of the mechlab creativity from the game. Pertinent to this discussion I will say that I would buy mech slots but not for a mere mech variant. I'd rather go for a whole new mech.

Reading about the mech leveling ideas the developers have it seems that if one truly wants to master a particular mech chasis they must level up the variants as well as the base chasis. I wonder how this is supposed to work if we have limited storage space for mechs.

In the end...

SHORT VERSION
Before I blow $60-120 on a product I like and a developer & brand I want to endorse, I just want to know if I'm going to be able to use my fancy new mechs with their C-bill earning potential to their fullest (think CPLT-K2), or will they gather virtual dust in my virtual garage while I have to waste limited mech bay space housing my workhorse variant mechs that have different hardpoints.

Please keep in mind that when Clan mechs come out this argument should be rendered moot, as Omnimechs should have little to no hardpoint limitations, considering the size (critical space) required by potential weapons/accessories and reasonable believability, of course.

Thanks for reading and chiming in, and Piranha guys you know I said all this 'cause I care

Edited for animated goodness!

Edited by ThunderHorse, 19 June 2012 - 08:58 PM.

[SyberSmoke]

Short Version: The mechs will be as useful as you make them. Remember that these are PRIME variants, the base models that all other variants come from. So you can alter them in any way that you need with in the bounds of the hard point system. They will never be outdated or ineffective...so yeah you will use them for a long time to come.

Nice thing is...if Dropship game mode is in at launch. People with the legendary package will get to drop 5 mechs (4 elites and a freebee) compared to the nubs that will only have the freebee. ;-)

As for some of the long version worries...no idea. People that may know can not say and the rest of us would not know because we are not in the beta yet to see. Kind of that Chicken and egg thing going on.

Edited by SyberSmoke, 19 June 2012 - 08:52 PM.

[Shadowscythe]

nope, your founder Catapult will never be a K2 as it is right now (K2 has balistic hardpoints in torso, and C1 has missile in arm)

But if you level them both to a certain level, they make each other better well, at least that is what the dev blog 4 chart says....although it is probably not accurate anymore

Edited by Shadowscythe, 19 June 2012 - 08:55 PM.

[Saintphoenix]

SyberSmoke, on 19 June 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Short Version: The mechs will be as useful as you make them. Remember that these are PRIME variants, the base models that all other variants come from. So you can alter them in any way that you need with in the bounds of the hard point system. They will never be outdated or ineffective...so yeah you will use them for a long time to come.

Nice thing is...if Dropship game mode is in at launch. People with the legendary package will get to drop 5 mechs (4 elites and a freebee) compared to the nubs that will only have the freebee. ;-)

Pretty sure they said dropship is ONLY 3 not as many as you have

[Black Fool]

It (obviously) won't become a new variant and if you want to maximize your skill in the Catapult chassis you'll have to buy at least some of the variants and gain some experience in them but in so far as the base models are useful to you at whatever point in the game, so will the founder mechs.

[Coristar]

May have been a shorter answer but it helped me, thank you

[Shadowscythe]

odds are....if dropship mode is in the game at all..it will be the same mech dropping every time...like a respawn

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Shadowscythe, on 19 June 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

nope, your founder Catapult will never be a K2 as it is right now (K2 has balistic hardpoints in torso, and C1 has missile in arm)

energy catapult is inefficient anyway.. I'm somewhat of an able body when it comes to working tactics and survival strategy out in my head and from what I've seen and read on the subject, being in the enemy's effective weapons range, and in a direct fire situation is a very, very bad place to be in a catapult.

How I would play a catapult on my field (keep in mind this is assuming locking down the enemy team is improbable) is have him skirt the fights from maximum effective missile range with a medium escort, providing indirect weapons fire support, with the escort playing interdiction and combined fire roles on approaching threats, while all of this is happening, at the same time the catapult and escort will be trying to fulfil a second objective of counter support, finding and knocking out any fire support the enemy has

but that's just me and i'm a noob so whatever.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 19 June 2012 - 09:03 PM.

[ThunderHorse]

Shadowscythe, on 19 June 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

nope, your founder Catapult will never be a K2 as it is right now (K2 has balistic hardpoints in torso, and C1 has missile in arm)

But if you level them both to a certain level, they make each other better well, at least that is what the dev blog 4 chart says....although it is probably not accurate anymore

Kinda got that part already, but would they be two separate mechs taking up two mech bay slots? (Appreciate the hard point rehash for the newbs, but I know my hardpoints. Used the K2 because it was such an obvious choice and I never thought of doing it myself until I read about it.)

Black Fool, on 19 June 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

It (obviously) won't become a new variant and if you want to maximize your skill in the Catapult chassis you'll have to buy at least some of the variants and gain some experience in them but in so far as the base models are useful to you at whatever point in the game, so will the founder mechs.

I was hoping we could "upgrade" the base chasis into the variants. In my mind it would simplify things to look under Catapult (as an example), then select the K2 variant, then proceed to mod it.

Battlecruiser, on 19 June 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

energy catapult is inefficient anyway.. I'm somewhat of an able body when it comes to working tactics and survival strategy out in my head and from what I've seen and read on the subject, being in the enemy's effective weapons range, and in a direct fire situation is a very, very bad place to be in a catapult.

How I would play a catapult on my field (keep in mind this is assuming locking down the enemy team is improbable) is have him skirt the fights from maximum effective missile range with a medium escort, providing indirect weapons fire support, with the escort playing interdiction and combined fire roles on approaching threats, while all of this is happening, at the same time the catapult and escort will be trying to fulfil a second objective of counter support, finding and knocking out any fire support the enemy has

but that's just me and i'm a noob so whatever.

Noob or not, that's very insightful, Battle. Thanks to you I will reconsider if I ever choose a Catapult for myself.

Appreciate the replies, ladies and/or gents.

Edited by ThunderHorse, 19 June 2012 - 09:06 PM.

[FrigateLT]

From my readings of the posts, I get the impression that the mechs and their load outs will follow a similar archetype as World of Tanks. While I'm not saying that the loadouts will be fixed according to a linear tech tree like WoT, but the option of changing loadouts may be similar as to how tankers change gun barrels, turrets, or the engine components of the tanks they get. Maybe it will be drastically different, and I'm wrong, but know it works pretty well in that game, and lets be honest, arent all mechs just walking tanks .

[SyberSmoke]

Saintphoenix, on 19 June 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Pretty sure they said dropship is ONLY 3 not as many as you have

Actually I believe he says you "Drop in with your first mech and when that is all used up you can drop in with your remaining three mechs". So that is four mechs total. Since a Legendary will have access to 4 elites and a freebee...plus any more they buy for the other three slots, they do have a tactical advantage in Dropship game mode.

FrigateLT, on 19 June 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

From my readings of the posts, I get the impression that the mechs and their load outs will follow a similar archetype as World of Tanks. While I'm not saying that the loadouts will be fixed according to a linear tech tree like WoT, but the option of changing loadouts may be similar as to how tankers change gun barrels, turrets, or the engine components of the tanks they get. Maybe it will be drastically different, and I'm wrong, but know it works pretty well in that game, and lets be honest, arent all mechs just walking tanks .

Except for the fact that in WoT there are definite and clear "This gun is better". While in Battletech it is far more "All the guns are good, put what you want on".

Edited by SyberSmoke, 19 June 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[Shadowscythe]

ThunderHorse, on 19 June 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Kinda got that part already, but would they be two separate mechs taking up two mech bay slots? (Appreciate the hard point rehash for the newbs, but I know my hardpoints. Used the K2 because it was such an obvious choice and I never thought of doing it myself until I read about it.)


I was hoping we could "upgrade" the base chasis into the variants. In my mind it would simplify things to look under Catapult (as an example), then select the K2 variant, then proceed to mod it.

Yes, different varients take up different mech slots
can't Literaly change one varient into another.....even if you refit it to be the exact same thing (example jenner D and F) they would still be varient D and varient F

You can probably have two mechs of the same varient, and it would still take up 2 slots


BUT, your founder mechs don't take up any slots

Most of this is covered in Russ' big founder Q&A, but I understand if you don't want to read through that much

Edited by Shadowscythe, 19 June 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[FrigateLT]

SyberSmoke, on 19 June 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Except for the fact that in WoT there are definite and clear "This gun is better". While in Battletech it is far more "All the guns are good, put what you want on".

Yeah, I agree, and I tried to refer to this with the "linear tech tree" line in my previous post, but maybe I wasn't clear about it. If anyone hasn't played WoT, the game follows tank tech trees for each of the different nations in the game, and is further broken down by tank types (artillery, tanks, tank destroyers, etc.). Additionally each tank has its own tech tree for its upgrades which is also very linear.

While MWO couldnt follow the same system in its tech design as WoT without incuring flames from Battletech fans (by saying an AC5 is better than a Large Laser, or something like that), but some similarities could be ported over. One example could be a tree that increases the capabilities for a single weapon system, like an SRM2 upgraded to a SRM4 in the same hardpoint. Now fans know that this has weight, heat and ammo ramifications, but research in the tree would just unlock the option to players so they could configure their mechs as they choose.

[ThunderHorse]

Thanks for your explanation, FrigateLT, though I agree MWO couldn't & wouldn't follow much of the progression system in WOT.