56 replies to this topic

[AntharPrime]

I've been here since the Founders got let into closed beta and despite all the bugs and delays, the one thing that I suprisingly find myself enjoying is the single death feature of this game.

I've played plenty of other shooters and have fallen into the rut of spawn, rush, die and spawn again that every shooter out there encourages. I find that the single death with this game encourages players to really think about their actions in game and whether it will really give them any tangible results. I find myself actually getting an adrenaline rush when I've lost over 40% of my armor and find my self fighting 2 mechs after downing 3 others and winning. I have never had this with any other game out there. Oh, I have had a sense of accomplishment but never a physical rush. This game might become addicting for me.

Edited by AntharPrime, 01 May 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[Durant Carlyle]

Yep. Though I've been addicted for quite some time already.

I would not have spent the amount of money I have, if the default mode was unlimited respawn like other games. I do agree with a limited-respawn Dropship mode though, as it fits within the universe. I will play that occasionally for a change of pace when it's released, but I will continue to play the standard matches the vast majority of the time.

[Fut]

AntharPrime, on 01 May 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

I've been here since the Founders got let into closed beta and despite all the bugs and delays, the one thing that I suprisingly find myself enjoying is the single death feature of this game.

I've played plenty of other shooters and have fallen into the rut of spawn, rush, die and spawn again that every shooter out there encourages. I find that the single death with this game encourages players to really think about their actions in game and whether it will really give them any tangible results. I find myself actually getting an adrenaline rush when I've lost over 40% of my armor and find my self fighting 2 mechs after downing 3 others and winning. I have never had this with any other game out there. Oh, I have had a sense of accomplishment but never a physical rush. This game might become addicting for me.

ABSOLUTELY!!!
Respawns alter the value of your life. Without the ability to magically rejoin a match, your one life is precious!
It's what makes this game exciting for me. Either you have what it takes to fight smart and survive, or you don't.

There are so many people who already play this game like they're suicidal - charging into the open, rushing into hugging distance before engaging...etc.
If they added any sort of respawn to MWO, things would degenerate into a *********** of annoying Zerg-Rush type tactics - where people simply charge in and inflict as much damage as possible before getting downed, respawing and repeating.

Edited by Fut, 01 May 2014 - 11:45 AM.

[Khobai]

one death isnt more fun IMO. Because bad players that throw their one life away often decide the game. It turns the game into RNG rather than a skill based matchup.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 01 May 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

one death isnt more fun IMO. Because bad players that throw their one life away often decide the game. It turns the game into RNG rather than a skill based matchup.

cool so bad players throwing their lives away over and over again is soooooo much better?

[Khobai]

The reality is one death doesnt work in 12v12. It worked in 8v8 because one person could still carry the team. So even if you had a few bads die on your team you could still make a comeback. But in 12v12 its almost impossible to carry your team by yourself and the chance of comebacks is drastically reduced. So if were going to have one death gamemodes they should really be capped at 4v4 and 8v8 IMO.

12v12 is decided by RNG (team with most noobs loses). Its really stupid. Why even bother going through the motion of playing the game? The game can just predict with probably 90%+ accuracy which team will win... based on how many noobs are on each team and other derived stats. When you remove the ability for skilled players to carry their team and make a difference in the game theres little reason to play the game anymore.

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cool so bad players throwing their lives away over and over again is soooooo much better?

yes. and since respawn would be an OPTIONAL gamemode. theres no reason not to add it for players that want it.

Edited by Khobai, 01 May 2014 - 12:06 PM.

[ProfessorD]

Khobai, on 01 May 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

one death isnt more fun IMO. Because bad players that throw their one life away often decide the game. It turns the game into RNG rather than a skill based matchup.

It's risky because some of the things you're going to do aren't going to work. That's what "risk" means.

AntharPrime, on 01 May 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

... I find that the single death with this game encourages players to really think about their actions in game and whether it will really give them any tangible results. I find myself actually getting an adrenaline rush when I've lost over 40% of my armor and find my self fighting 2 mechs after downing 3 others and winning. ...

It encourages *some* of them to think. Some people really just refuse to think while playing games.

Also, for every one of the epic fights like the OP described, you get a couple inglorious deaths 500 meters away on the wrong end of a PPC you didn't see coming. The OP sounds like the kind of person that has the resilience to deal with that and still have fun, which is a good thing. Most of the people that play this game don't have that kind of resilience.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Khobai, on 01 May 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

yes. and since respawn would be an OPTIONAL gamemode. theres no reason not to add it for players that want it.

I'm all about more options.

I still think a fully fleshed out lobby system (which includes the ability to search for specific match parameters) would be great for this game.

If someone wants to create a 12vs12 lobby and enable respawns, more power to them.

If someone wants to create a 12vs12 lobby with stock mechs only, more power to them.

If someone wants to create a 12vs12 lobby with a 500 team/tonnage maximum, more power to them.

This give us a fun game to play while PGI hammers out CW, which will have it's own rule set and probably not include things like Respawn or Stock only.

And for reference, the new private match system, while a step in the right direction...is a VERY barebones and in my opinion poorly thought out version of what I'd expect from a game in 2014.

[WVAnonymous]

Fut, on 01 May 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

There are so many people who already play this game like they're suicidal - charging into the open, rushing into hugging distance before engaging...etc.
If they added any sort of respawn to MWO, things would degenerate into a *********** of annoying Zerg-Rush type tactics - where people simply charge in and inflict as much damage as possible before getting downed, respawing and repeating.

This would really alter the dynamics of speed though. Respawn in an Atlas on Alpine and the game is over before you reengage. Jenners and Ravens would rule the earth.

[Khobai]

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It's risky because some of the things you're going to do aren't going to work. That's what "risk" means.

You have luck and risk confused. 12v12 is effectively luck based. Because the team that gets the most idiots is more likely to lose than the team that gets the least idiots. Matchmaker now decides which team wins most of the time... and since one person cant really make a difference in 12v12, player skill factors in very little. Compare that to 8v8 where one good player could still win the game singlehandedly for their team. 12v12 just doesnt work with one death IMO, because the essence of skill is lost: 8v8 was superior.

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It encourages *some* of them to think. Some people really just refuse to think while playing games.

Yes but the players that dont think ruin the game for everyone else. All it takes is 1-2 bad players getting killed at a pivotal moment to allow the other team to win by avalanche. Or if you have disconnects or afks its the same problem.

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I'm all about more options.

me too. I want the option for a respawn gamemode (for 12v12) and the option to do 4v4 and 8v8 fights (for one death). The less players you have on your team, the more skill matters.

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If they added any sort of respawn to MWO, things would degenerate into a *********** of annoying Zerg-Rush type tactics - where people simply charge in and inflict as much damage as possible before getting downed, respawing and repeating.

It all depends on the gamemode and how respawn is handled. You can implement respawn so that dying is a penalty (ticket system/limited lives). You can also implement gamemodes that have objectives which directly discourage zerging (spread out objectives to split teams up).

Edited by Khobai, 01 May 2014 - 12:25 PM.

[Lostdragon]

I'm with Khobai on 8v8, I found it to be more fun because one bad player or one disconnect was something your team could still overcome. In 12v12 I typically find that the first team to get a kill will win the match, and if you have a disconnected player on your side your odds of winning are pretty slim. It is still possible to mount a comeback in 12v12 but it is way harder for a pug team to do so in my experience.

I wish we could queue for different sized matches played on appropriately sized maps, like 4v4 on small maps, 8v8 for medium maps and 12v12 on large maps.

[CeeKay Boques]

I love one life, its white knuckle!

I love Respawn, it allows things like retreats, and real flanking.


I would n't like untimed, unlimited respawn... usually. 30 minute game? Could be enticing.

LImited, Dropship based Respawn? Can't get here fast enough.

[Wolfways]

Depends on your playstyle really. Even in respawn games staying alive is always my no1 priority.
One of the things i dislike about MWO is the 10-15 minute matches. Rinse and repeat. I love long matches with the flow of combat changing constantly. One of my favourite things ever was the old AV in WoW and its 7hours+ matches

[Khobai]

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One of the things i dislike about MWO is the 10-15 minute matches.

10-15 minutes? more like 8-10 minutes in my experience.

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I love long matches with the flow of combat changing constantly

I agree. But for that you really need a ticket based gamemode.

Essentially:

Respawn gamemodes are more strategic because the overall goal is to either 1) complete the strategic objective, or 2) win by attrition and running the other team out of tickets.

One-death gamemodes tend to be more tactical because you have to think more and work as a team more to stay alive (at least that was the case in 8v8, before 12v12 took away skilled-based play).

Ideally BOTH game modes should exist in MWO. Players should simply get the option which one they want to play.

[Dracol]

So let me get this straight...8v8 was better because a single player could make the difference. On a 12v12, 1 player is not as relevant and it's all about the over all ability (or inability) of the team.

BUT... if 1 team has a disconnect, the 12v12 is hard pressed to overcome it while 8v8 it was easier to carry the team 1 person short.

So, I am just confused at this point. Does 1 player not matter at all in 12v12, or do they?

If they did not matter, 1 player DC would not have an effect on the match.

If they did matter, 1 player could over come weaknesses in the other players.

[Dracol]

Khobai, on 01 May 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

One-death gamemodes tend to be more tactical because you have to think more and work as a team more to stay alive (at least that was the case in 8v8, before 12v12 took away skilled-based play).

I would say 12v12 didn't take away skill based play, just made team work more effective. I see a lot of times a sniper mech finding his perch regardless of the rest of the team. In 8v8 this wasn't much of an issue because the spread of the enemy forces were smaller and they could contribute. With 12v12, the solo play style is less effective compared to one that works with lance mates/team mates no matter their ability.

Edit addition: More tactical, flow of games with flanking and retreats happen in MW:O often. Its done by players who understand the 1 life concept. When both teams have a majority with this mindset, it can get pretty intense.

Edited by Dracol, 01 May 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[Roland]

Khobai, on 01 May 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

I agree. But for that you really need a ticket based gamemode.

Not at all.

We used to have matches in MW4 which were no-respawn, and lasted an HOUR in league fights.

Generally, it was enabled by much larger maps, with a deeper radar system which didn't just have a magic red dorito that popped up over any mech in your field of view.

Back in the old planetary leagues, despite having matches that were only 6v6 or 8v8, we'd have extremely complex battles which often involved multiple engagements/disengagements throughout the match.

Respawn isn't really required for that at all.

[Khobai]

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I would say 12v12 didn't take away skill based play, just made team work more effective.

It definitely took individual skill out of the game. And yes it made teamwork matter more, but when you get idiots who dont want to play as a team, they ruin the game for everyone else. Game is now decided entirely by luck and how few of *those* idiots you get on your team.

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We used to have matches in MW4 which were no-respawn, and lasted an HOUR in league fights.

But MW4 still had the option to play with respawns. If you dont like respawns, thats fine, turn them off. Im just saying we should have the option like MW4 had.

[Roland]

Khobai, on 01 May 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

But MW4 still had the option to play with respawns. If you dont like respawns, thats fine, turn them off. Im just saying we should have the option like MW4 had.

BUT WE DIDN'T PLAY RESPAWN.

The Planetary leagues had hour long, NO RESPAWN fights, with 6v6.... thus demonstrating, conclusively, that you do not need respawn to enable long, complex games.

Quite frankly, the respawn matches in MW4 were trivially simple by comparison.... They had absolutely no tactical or strategic depth at all. They universally amounted to a single firing line down the center of the map, with people jumpsniping at each other with lasers.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Isn't it awesome TS? I love that aspect of FPSs. I had such a hard time getting into BF2 coming from Counter-Strike back in the day because of the respawn mechanic but since BF2 was such a great game I was able to over come not being used to that mechanic.

MWO gameplay is great and will keep me interested until we get the meat of this sandwich. I could totally get into a dropship mode where all players had 4 different mechs to use through out a match though, just saying *hint hint* PGI.