15 replies to this topic

[darkezero]

I hear there's this thing called "cover" that is a decent counter to LRMs. The question I have is: what exactly defines cover from LRMs (excluding ECM)? is it:
A] just preventing line of sight to the person who is shooting but doesn't stop the missile from impacting your face if he's still got a lock for X reasoning (lots of these)?
B] that one or two really tall objects that actually stop the missiles, but either limits where you're going to go for the rest of the match and/or take an absurdly long time relative to missile flight time to travel from one to the next (not as many of these)?
C] some type of cover that I'm missing/not seeing, and I'm just blind and ******** and not realizing it (I think is most likely)?

Edited by darkezero, 04 May 2014 - 11:14 PM.

[Mordynak]

No thats pretty much it. ECM or get behind a tall object.

[Modo44]

If your mech is small enough, "cover" also means other, bigger mechs. Preferably enemies.

[crossflip]

If the enemy has tag or target retention then breaking line of sight is mostly pointless. I'd say the maps with good cover are HPGM, the Strait, Frozen City, Forest Colony and River City. The only decently located cover on caustic is the caldera itself, and on Alpine you have to walk around or over an entire mountain to avoid LRMs. TT suffers similarly but it has more steep mountains and hence I wouldn't really say it's hard to hide on.

If this game stays the way it is, reduced to players hiding and picking away at each other from absurd distances, I honestly don't see myself enjoying it anymore. Nobody wants to take even the slightest bit of damage because unless you're an assault you'll evaporate in a matter of seconds, a la Hawken. Cover is important and all, but with TTK as it is hiding is the only way to live, and consequently dealing damage while hidden is the only safe way to fight. Hence LRMs.

Edited by crossflip, 05 May 2014 - 04:59 AM.

[YueFei]

crossflip, on 05 May 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

If the enemy has tag or target retention then breaking line of sight is mostly pointless. I'd say the maps with good cover are HPGM, the Strait, Frozen City, Forest Colony and River City. The only decently located cover on caustic is the caldera itself, and on Alpine you have to walk around or over an entire mountain to avoid LRMs. TT suffers similarly but it has more steep mountains and hence I wouldn't really say it's hard to hide on.

If this game stays the way it is, reduced to players hiding and picking away at each other from absurd distances, I honestly don't see myself enjoying it anymore. Nobody wants to take even the slightest bit of damage because unless you're an assault you'll evaporate in a matter of seconds, a la Hawken. Cover is important and all, but with TTK as it is hiding is the only way to live, and consequently dealing damage while hidden is the only safe way to fight. Hence LRMs.

One thing I've found useful is to pull back and swing wide. Crossing laterally in full view of the enemy is dangerous, bordering on suicidal, but if you can pull backward 200 meters or so, you can often find a route to cross left or right while in cover from the enemy.

That lets you move about a bit more safely and makes the game less stale.

[Greyboots]

crossflip, on 05 May 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

If the enemy has tag or target retention then breaking line of sight is mostly pointless.

If you break LoS then tag automatically has no LoS and therefore no benefit.

Are you sure that's what you meant?

[ThatBum42]

You need to find the spotter and get out of range of their line of sight. Pretty hard because of them usually being lights, often with ECM. If they use TAG then it's easier, but smart pilots will use it only when the battle chaos would make it unlikely that they'd be noticed.

If it's unavoidable (if you get NARC'd, for instance) getting to the tallest cover you can find is a good idea, because the LRMs have a steep angle of descent. As a last ditch, you can shut down to break the lock, but only do that when in cover already.

Often the cover doesn't need to be absurdly tall to stop LRMs if you're right next to it. The snowed-in buildings of Frozen City work well.

Edited by ThatBum42, 09 May 2014 - 02:38 AM.

[Greyboots]

darkezero, on 04 May 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

I hear there's this thing called "cover" that is a decent counter to LRMs. The question I have is: what exactly defines cover from LRMs (excluding ECM)? is it:
A] just preventing line of sight to the person who is shooting but doesn't stop the missile from impacting your face if he's still got a lock for X reasoning (lots of these)?
B] that one or two really tall objects that actually stop the missiles, but either limits where you're going to go for the rest of the match and/or take an absurdly long time relative to missile flight time to travel from one to the next (not as many of these)?
C] some type of cover that I'm missing/not seeing, and I'm just blind and ******** and not realizing it (I think is most likely)?

Cover will EITHER break LoS to all enemies who have you targeted (can't get or maintain a lock) OR have something in the path of the incoming missiles for them to hit before you. One or the other is good, BOTH is better.

Contrary to popular belief each and every map has these locations. More of them for smaller mechs than larger ones. EXPLORE. You'll find them.

[crossflip]

Greyboots, on 09 May 2014 - 02:34 AM, said:

If you break LoS then tag automatically has no LoS and therefore no benefit.

Are you sure that's what you meant?

I may be wrong, but from what I've seen, the tag sign next to the target's name lingers for a second. I was under the assumption that the bonus stays in effect during this time. If I'm wrong, then that part of my statement is invalid, but there's still the rest of what I said.

Greyboots, on 09 May 2014 - 02:43 AM, said:

Cover will EITHER break LoS to all enemies who have you targeted (can't get or maintain a lock) OR have something in the path of the incoming missiles for them to hit before you. One or the other is good, BOTH is better.

Contrary to popular belief each and every map has these locations. More of them for smaller mechs than larger ones. EXPLORE. You'll find them.

Exploring in such cases normally means leaving the team, which is even more of a death sentence. A light might be able to maneuver into and back out of these obscure sources of cover, but for anything heavier than 40 tons, that is rarely an option.

Edited by crossflip, 09 May 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[Old Mechdonald]

The AMS has to be more powerful.... it barely helps at all as it is now.

[Buckminster]

Another thing to remember with the "incoming missiles" warning - move side to side, not just front to back. The missile flight pattern levels off after it clears terrain, which means you'll still take a large chunk of missiles if you only try and back away. Even if you break target lock, those missiles will still come.

crossflip, on 09 May 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

I may be wrong, but from what I've seen, the tag sign next to the target's name lingers for a second. I was under the assumption that the bonus stays in effect during this time. If I'm wrong, then that part of my statement is invalid, but there's still the rest of what I said.

That might be ab artifact of differing pings. My assumption would be that if the target still says "TAG", then they are tagged.

[Koniving]

darkezero, on 04 May 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

I hear there's this thing called "cover" that is a decent counter to LRMs. The question I have is: what exactly defines cover from LRMs (excluding ECM)? is it:

D) Putting a very large enemy mech between yourself and the enemy LRMs and/or enemy streaks in such a way that the large enemy mech you are hugging is detrimentally affected by incoming fire until such time as the incoming fire stops or until the 'living cover' has ceased to exist.

[Bulletsponge0]

crossflip, on 05 May 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

If the enemy has tag or target retention then breaking line of sight is mostly pointless. I'd say the maps with good cover are HPGM, the Strait, Frozen City, Forest Colony and River City. The only decently located cover on caustic is the caldera itself, and on Alpine you have to walk around or over an entire mountain to avoid LRMs. TT suffers similarly but it has more steep mountains and hence I wouldn't really say it's hard to hide on.

If this game stays the way it is, reduced to players hiding and picking away at each other from absurd distances, I honestly don't see myself enjoying it anymore. Nobody wants to take even the slightest bit of damage because unless you're an assault you'll evaporate in a matter of seconds, a la Hawken. Cover is important and all, but with TTK as it is hiding is the only way to live, and consequently dealing damage while hidden is the only safe way to fight. Hence LRMs.

add terra therma and Tourmaline to maps with good cover

[Kjudoon]

Old Mechdonald, on 09 May 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

The AMS has to be more powerful.... it barely helps at all as it is now.

A single AMS takes down 4 missiles per salvo. that's pretty impressive since that takes care of most SRM launchers, Streaks, potentially a NARC and the LRM 5 and SRM6 is reduced to 1 or 2 missiles able to hit.

AMS is not a force field meant to stop barrages of 20+ missiles, but to reduce the damage. If you think it's supposed to stop all missiles, you did not read the label on the tin. This goes for dual AMS too no matter how many tons of ammo it's got backing it up.

Every map has cover. Some is better than others. Even steep ridge lines work. Also at long range, you can, with a moderately speedy mech 70kph+, you can dodge... usually when lock is broken... a volley of missiles if you know how to maneouver. I do it fairly frequently in a large mech.

Defending against LRMs is a neccessary skill. It's possibly a skill set that most people don't even realize they need to have because somehow they got it in their heads that this is a brawling FPS where you can drink a health potion and charge some more, continuing to button mash their way to victory if the health potions just don't run out. I really hope they never implement respawn. MWO will not benefit from more brawltardery.

Edited by Kjudoon, 10 May 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Cover and Concealment, two words that most people interchange, but mean different things.

Concealment is hiding and hoping no one see you, either from camo patterns or through the vegetation.

Cover is where you have something hard to stop shots from impacting you.


When LRMs are fired and you are behind a hill or tall building, there is a way to drop LRMs on your head. The lucky part is not many people know how to do that. Since they are reading the newspaper while firing LRMs and not thinking.

Now if I see 4 or 5 AMS start to fire as the LRMs are descending, well I stop firing and wait for the other team to scatter more. In other words, I pick my targets that are the weakest against me.

[Kjudoon]

That's what separates the men from the boys when it comes to running LRMs. Kinda like reading Mark Twain's "Life on the Mississippi". You have to learn to read the map and events going on there.

That pyramid of AMS? tells you there's a reef of enemy mechs there ready for LRMs. See that flurry of PPCs streaking from beneath the stargate? You have long range snipers or a big PPCboat. The smokey rainbows from behind a ridge of crystal that impact on the rocks above? That tells you where their LRM pilots are and that they aren't paying attention to the terrain at what they fire, aren't good or are maneouvering for position while keeping the enemy down.

Edited by Kjudoon, 10 May 2014 - 09:27 AM.