56 replies to this topic

[Asmudius Heng]

Vlad Ward, on 01 May 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

It's not a matter of experience. It's not a matter of tactics. It's a matter of numbers. Missing armor or not, once your team is down a couple of Mechs, it's 12 guys with guns against 10. Can a team occasionally pull up from that sort of disadvantage? Sure. If they're a better team than the other guys.

Assuming a perfectly balanced matchmaker, the first team to lose a Mech will always lose.

That is a bit simplistic, the matchmaker even if perfectly balanced does not take into account the variables on the battleground and individual choices.

This is like a physics problem that explains the concept of phsyics but the the challenges faced by an engineer that work in an environment that has many more variables to consider.

Assuming we all line up in a row and shoot each other and all are the same tonnage etc and the rate of attrition remains constant the first teamto lose a mech will indeed lose because the weight of firepower against them is now more and an exponential increase in damage starts to occur as more mechs go down faster.

However in practice losing a mech first is damaging certainly but not insurmountable even if both teams are equally as good as each other because of the multitude of variables.

You are not wrong exactly but its a bit too black and white for the reality.

If you manage to core 3 mechs and lose one for instance it might quickly swing back the other way if you can down those 3 cored mechs quickly which can happen etc etc

[AntharPrime]

The horror of unlimited respawns that I envision is a 6 PPC Stalker with an XL engine, spawn kill 1 or 2 mechs, die, spawn kill 1 or 2 mech, die, repeat ad nauseum. Essentially with the level of customization that we have in the game would make this a very bad move for the game.

[Corwin Vickers]

Real Death please.

Lose your cockpit and you have to change your name and you lose all your mechs.

See how many people overheat in front of an enemy then....

You don't know an adrenaline rush until you have everything riding in every match you play.

[Khobai]

Quote

The horror of unlimited respawns that I envision is a 6 PPC Stalker with an XL engine, spawn kill 1 or 2 mechs, die, spawn kill 1 or 2 mech, die, repeat ad nauseum. Essentially with the level of customization that we have in the game would make this a very bad move for the game.

The respawn mode that PGI had planned made you pick a different mech each time you respawned. And you could only respawn 3 times. I see nothing wrong with that.

[Vlad Ward]

Asmudius Heng, on 01 May 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

That is a bit simplistic, the matchmaker even if perfectly balanced does not take into account the variables on the battleground and individual choices.

This is like a physics problem that explains the concept of phsyics but the the challenges faced by an engineer that work in an environment that has many more variables to consider.

Assuming we all line up in a row and shoot each other and all are the same tonnage etc and the rate of attrition remains constant the first teamto lose a mech will indeed lose because the weight of firepower against them is now more and an exponential increase in damage starts to occur as more mechs go down faster.

However in practice losing a mech first is damaging certainly but not insurmountable even if both teams are equally as good as each other because of the multitude of variables.

You are not wrong exactly but its a bit too black and white for the reality.

If you manage to core 3 mechs and lose one for instance it might quickly swing back the other way if you can down those 3 cored mechs quickly which can happen etc etc

Seeing as I'm an actual physicist I'll tell you the same thing I tell engineers: Yo variables be trivial, bro. (no, I don't actually say that to engineers. Their job sucks and I would never want it).

"Environmental effects" and other "battlefield circumstances" can be equally applied to both sides of a match over a large number of games. What happens to one team on one match may happen to another team on another match. The net effect on anyone is zero.

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 01 May 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

The respawn mode that PGI had planned made you pick a different mech each time you respawned. And you could only respawn 3 times. I see nothing wrong with that.

Depends on what "different mech" means.
If it's four different weight classes then i'd never play it.

[Vlad Ward]

Wolfways, on 01 May 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

Depends on what "different mech" means.
If it's four different weight classes then i'd never play it.

Considering we're (supposed to be) locked into 3/3/3/3, it's probably 3 mechs of the same weight class as your original pick.

[Wolfways]

Vlad Ward, on 01 May 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

Considering we're (supposed to be) locked into 3/3/3/3, it's probably 3 mechs of the same weight class as your original pick.

But PGI were talking about Dropship mode well before they came up with 3/3/3/3, and with PGI you never know what they'll do

[Roland]

Khobai, on 01 May 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

The respawn mode that PGI had planned made you pick a different mech each time you respawned. And you could only respawn 3 times. I see nothing wrong with that.

A big part of it would be where they decided to spawn the mechs.

I'm not necessarily opposed to a limited system like the originally proposed dropship mode though. It could be very cool, if the spawning was done well.

[Zaggeron]

I've always preferred the no respawns game modes in various games I've played. With many of the games I've played with respawns I find I do well until my first death and then poorly aftewards because at that point I'm respawned in some random place and I've lost the sense of the battle front. Many games with respawns tend to devolve into random pockets of battle because once the first wave of people die, the actual battle line is lost.

Now some games have handled respawns well. Games where you respawn only at your base and you have a bit of a trudge to get back to the front work well provided the game has enough players that the notion of the front is preserved. But I don't know if 12 v.12 is a large enough pool of players to support the playstyle of a persistent front where respawned players hike back towards the battle.

Edited by Zaggeron, 01 May 2014 - 07:43 PM.

[Tezcatli]

I agree with the sentiment that one death matches forces people to use their brains and not just twitch reflexes.

But I wouldn't be against something like. Picking 3 mechs from my garage and being able to re-drop. But as it's own game mode. So as preserve the current gameplay.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if this is going to be implemented regardless of what we think. Since they want to get a bigger audience. And the biggest audience is the twitch based extortion that is the current FPS industry.

Edited by Tezcatli, 01 May 2014 - 08:44 PM.

[Mycrus]

I've changed my mind... I want re spawns...

I already fall asleep waiting for the drop to start...

Let's just treat this game like the arena shooter it is...

[Joseph Mallan]

Vlad Ward, on 01 May 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

One death equals more 12-0 games.

Force Multiplier. Normal occurrence when killing your enemy.

[AntharPrime]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 02 May 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Thanks for the awesome review. I'm really glad you get that same thrill I do!

Just glad that I started a post that promoted a polite back and forth between players with different opinions. I just hope my ticker can take the excitement that I get when fighting a battle, I can't wait for CW.

[GreyGriffin]

I think there's room for respawn in MWO if it is handled well. No just running willy nilly out of the gate, but measured reinforcements will allow bigger maps and more diverse game modes to flourish, especially if the TTK stays so low.

[3rdworld]

Mycrus, on 01 May 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

I've changed my mind... I want re spawns...

I already fall asleep waiting for the drop to start...

Let's just treat this game like the arena shooter it is...

Ding Ding Ding.

People pretend this game is some special snowflake. It isn't. It could be called Call of Mechs, considering how it plays.

[CatintheHat]

I enjoyed an earlier online incarnation of MW where the maps went for up to an hour. It meant you got to play with the same people and learn your team mates and enemy tactics.

It was rarely a spawn die spawn die scenario because it took you a few mins to get back to the battle front so you were not careless with your life.