24 replies to this topic

[Vanrian]

Hello everyone!

My handle is Vanrian and I'm relatively new to MWO (about half a week now) so I was wondering if anyone had any advice on the 'Mech I've tried to build. I really liked how the trial hunchback worked and handled so I bought my first 'Mech, the Hunchback HBK-4P, and dumped almost all my money into it (besides a little extra to get rid of the olive drab).

HBK-4P

I used that site to recreate it on paper. But if it doesn't load here's the full loadout. (Side note all my armor is maxed so I won't bother to list it or the standard stuff such as actuators etc.)

Equipment:
Double Heat-Sink
Endosteel Armor
---------------------------
Head:
Med Pulse Laser
---------------------------
Center Torso:
Std 200 Engine
Gyro
2x Dynamic Slot
---------------------------
Right Torso:
6x Med Pulse Laser
2x Double Heat Sink
---------------------------
Left Torso:
3x Double Heat Sink
A.M.S
1000 A.M.S rounds
C.A.S.E
---------------------------
Right Arm:
Med Laser
Double Heat Sink
---------------------------
Left Arm:
Med Laser
Double Heat Sink
---------------------------
Left Leg:
Nothing
---------------------------
Right Leg:
Nothing

All advice is welcome. I only ask that you do your best to post with advice rather than just "it's good" or "it's bad"

Thank you all in advance, and see you on the battlefield xD

Edited by Vanrian, 30 April 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[Koniving]

Obscenely hot! O_O!
But wicked if you use it sparingly. Though if you trade the MPLs for SPLs and fill all the gaps with DHS, you'll have a really good starting build.
4P with ML and SPL. <-Smurfy If you chainfire the SPL they may remind you of an automatic weapon.

My current rig is found in this video, sporting twin PPCs + 6 ML and a Tag (for making sure I can hit my target; good for detecting invisible walls). It begins with me part-way rebuilding it.
Before this and the triple PPC build, I ran 7 SPL and 2 ML (arms).

Edited by Koniving, 29 April 2014 - 10:50 PM.

[Mahws]

Some comments:

CASE is rarely, if ever, worth taking. Ammo only has a 10% chance of exploding when crit and AMS doesn't deal a great deal of explosion damage. No point taking 0.5 tonnes of weight to prevent damage that will likely only happen once in every hundred matches. Really CASE is only worth taking if you're packing a Gauss Rifle (90%) chance of exploding.

MPL aren't really a good choice for a 4P. They're best used in arms as they're slightly better at hitting lights, but even then with the doubled weight, increased heat and lower range they're hard to recommend. For the same weight as your 7 MPL you could fit 2 LL + 4 ML which gives you better heat efficiency, slightly more damage and longer range. Damage per second isn't a big priority for an energy boat, you'll need to drop back out of combat to cool after the first shot or two anyway.

I wouldn't recommend running the 200 engine if you can avoid it. A 250-275 will give you more space (two more in engine heatsinks means 6 extra slots) and the speed and agility that a medium needs to survive. That being said if it's too expensive to buy a new engine (they do cost a tonne) you can make do with what you have. Maybe keep it in mind for your next mech and try to get one that you can swap the engine from.

You probably don't need leg armor, you can free up an extra tonne or so by dropping them down to around 31 a piece.

[Spheroid]

That is going to run too hot. You should not have upgraded to endo unless you were planning on running a 250 or larger so that you have room for more heatsinks.

I suggest twin mplas in arms, six mlas in the hunch with the following options:

( a ) BAP, head TAG

( b ) head mplas, CASE

( c ) head mlas, BAP

Ideally you will dump the 200 STD as soon as possible and use something like a 260 with endo.


You could also run 2x LLAS with 3x mlas or 7x slas(no endo, 200 STD).

Edited by Spheroid, 30 April 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[Wintersdark]

I'd do this:
HBK-4P

6 medium lasers (ghost heat max). Medium Lasers are far superior to Medium Pulse Lasers, as they are FAR cooler running per damage dealt, and more importantly do more damage in most situations - generally speaking, as soon as you fire a MPL beyond it's listed max range, you're doing less damage than you'd do with a Medium Laser in the same circumstance, except with much more heat. As MPL's listed max range (think more "optimal range") is very short, this is most of the time. I've got 5 in the hunch, one in the head, to maintain firepower when (not if) you lose the hunch.

Then, keep two MPL in the arms. The arms are more precise, better for nailing speedy little ******* lights. You've got arm lock off, right?

Then, STD 265 for speed and maneuverability.


Personally, I'd ditch the MPL's, move up to a STD275 w/ 9 ML's, fire them in a group of 6 and a group of three, to avoid ghost heat. But that's a little more advanced and not necessarily better - just a preference thing.

[Vanrian]

I'll play a few more matches and try to adjust my mech to what you've all suggested. I have to say though, I noticed a distinct step up using the MPL's as compared to just the regular ML's and I've kept the heat in check by chain firing them. Do you think there's any viability in what I've managed to build so far? I've been planning to replace the engine asap I'm just out of money.

Edited by Vanrian, 30 April 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[Aym]

Yes and no, it's a great start, but getting a bigger engine means ditching the pulse lasers to free up tonnage, and that's what everyone is recommending. We do not recommend XL engines in a Hunchback, the hunch/side torso gets destroyed too easily. So a 250+ standard engine is a great investment, you can put two of your Double Heat Sinks inside it to free up critical slots, but you will need to free up tonnage and that means no pulse lasers, which is fine because medium pulse lasers are worse than mediums, trust us! Such as this...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6871c053894ae0d

[Osric Lancaster]

Some people will tell you to not put an XL engine in a hunchback. I am not those people. But this will work -

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3268841afa51a0b

until you can build this -

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a4364bbbf084965

Aym, on 29 April 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

medium pulse lasers are worse than mediums.

This is very true. The only 'Mech I can think of where a MPL beats out the ML in utility is the machine-gun locust.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 30 April 2014 - 12:15 AM.

[Void Angel]

Vanrian, on 29 April 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

All advice is welcome. I only ask that you do your best to post with advice rather than just "it's good" or "it's bad"

Thank you all in advance, and see you on the battlefield xD

It's dangerous to go alone! Take this!

It's almost identical to Wintersdark's build - it downgrades the arm lasers to normal mediums (which I imagine he had for light hunting) and trades in AMS for a larger engine and more heat sinks. You could also trade down the engine a bit and ditch a heat sink for AMS, depending on how often you run into LRMs, and how annoying you find them.

Finally, and this is probably the most important advice - Bookmark This Website! The MechLab is invaluable in its own right, and you can look up the vital statistics of everything in the game right there - which chassis have nonstandard engine ratings, torso twist rates and twist ranges, how many of which weapons trigger heat scale penalties... It's all there, and it's pulled directly from the game files. He's also got a forum post in the guides section. It is such a superior resource that PGI has called their planned final version of the in-game MechLab a "Smurfy's Layout." This site is awesome, and by highlighting some text and hitting the link button up above when you're typing out a post, you can make a hotlink to your build instead of laboriously typing out all the vital statistics. =)

[PACoFist]

As others have already proposed, I would get a bigger engine. The bit of extra speed helps a lot. The build you have posted, is made for hit-and-run attacks, because it is too hot for prolonged duels.
Engines come with up to 10 free heatsinks. The 250 engine is the smallest engine that gives you 10 heatsinks.
I almost never use AMS, I think it is better to just get into cover quickly. And you can use the weight to get more Heatsinks instead. But it is a matter of opinion.

Here is what I am using:
HBK-4P

Edit:
Don´t use an XL engine in Hunchbacks. No other mech gets shot into the side torso more often.

Chain firing your weapons is not very effective in most cases. Better fire all your weapons at once (but just once!) and then hide until you have cooled down again. Hit-and-run!

Edited by PACoFist, 30 April 2014 - 12:24 AM.

[dragnier1]

Vanrian, on 29 April 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

I noticed a distance step up using the MPL's as compared to just the regular ML's

You can find this info in smurfy. It lists all weapons' effective range and maximum range.

[Void Angel]

A word on pulse lasers, which I forgot to mention - Pulse Lasers were buffed recently, and are in a much better place than they were before. However, Medium Lasers are almost always more effective than Medium Pulses, particularly on smaller chassis like the Hunchback. The reason is that while they do lots of damage and are more accurate (because of their shorter beam duration,) they do so at the cost of increased heat. So pulse lasers are good supplementary weapons, but not so hot (you should pardon the pun) as a primary armament. Hence Wintersdark's build up there, which has Medium Pulses in the arms to slap down harassing lights; they hate pulse lasers.

[ThatBum42]

I would have thought that medium pulse lasers would be a good weapon for lights, and indeed I've seen Spiders use them to great effect. For knife fighting range, the damage should be optimal. The shorter duration would reduce the damage spread while moving quickly. The shorter recycle time would increase DPS, and this is valuable since lights tend to harass and circle, having a relatively large exposure time as compared to other classes.

[Koniving]

Vanrian, on 29 April 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

I'll play a few more matches and try to adjust my mech to what you've all suggested. I have to say though, I noticed a distance step up using the MPL's as compared to just the regular ML's and I've kept the heat in check by chain firing them. Do you think there's any viability in what I've managed to build so far? I've been planning to replace the engine asap I'm just out of money.

Not sure what you mean by distance step up. There's a shorter beam time, faster firing rate and more damage, but the ML has 70 meters more optimum range range and 140 more maximum range.

Chain firing MPL has always been the best route, explains how you managed at all. I do a similar thing with the SPLs and even been doing it on my Banshee.

There's no denying the viable nature of your build, it'll decimate lights quickly and all at once devastate assault mechs. But the heat combined with the speed and lack of range are hefty drawbacks. If nothing else, channel a bit more armor to the front or make sure to do hit and runs instead of upfront fights; that little front armor might see you killed before you reach targets in some cases.

Personally I always fight around buildings in a Hunchback. Even on Sarna it says they were made for urban environments and I pulled the most amazing crap I've ever seen bobbing and weaving between buildings.

[Void Angel]

I think he means "distinct step up." =)

Also, I wholeheartedly agree about fighting around buildings, particularly in the 4P - also from behind/beside friendly heavies and assaults. Even with just medium lasers, it's difficult to avoid overheating in open combat; if I instead focus on shooting people who are trying to flank/fight my escorts, and stay under cover the rest of the time, I can plaster people with a 30-40 point laser alpha strike, and cool down without getting shot at.

Edited by Void Angel, 30 April 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Warblood]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b412c1282939a62
if you can avoid being noticed, wait till your assault mechs are in combat an flank their targets from the side while tryin to keep cover close by.. an I mean really close...once you've been noticed fall back an flank from a new supporting position.

[Koniving]

Void Angel, on 30 April 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

if I instead focus on shooting people who are trying to flank/fight my escorts, and stay under cover the rest of the time,

Escorts! Medium mechs make great escorts. Also escorting missions are great for newer players such as those two at the time (on the vid link).

Warblood, on 30 April 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b412c1282939a62
if you can avoid being noticed, wait till your assault mechs are in combat an flank their targets from the side while tryin to keep cover close by.. an I mean really close...once you've been noticed fall back an flank from a new supporting position.

That is evil.
*Makes it.*

[Wintersdark]

ThatBum42, on 30 April 2014 - 01:50 AM, said:

I would have thought that medium pulse lasers would be a good weapon for lights, and indeed I've seen Spiders use them to great effect. For knife fighting range, the damage should be optimal. The shorter duration would reduce the damage spread while moving quickly. The shorter recycle time would increase DPS, and this is valuable since lights tend to harass and circle, having a relatively large exposure time as compared to other classes.

Some light pilots love MPL's. Personally, I feel regular mediums are much better for lights, as tonnage and heat are concerns. What happens with most lights+MPL's is that they still end up firing at around 200-250m, where the ML would have done the same damage. What's more, you could have a ML *and* a DHS for each MPL.. Less heat, more range, better cooling, and better Dave unless you have the discipline to hold you're fire till you're inside 200m. Its important for lights to still be able to do effective damage at longer ranges, as in a light v. Light battle, you'll be at all sorts of ranges. The MPL light is as a distinct disadvantage there, as the ML light has the endurance due to lower heat generation, better cooling, and its easy to keep dancing slightly beyond the optimal range for MPL's.

I'm really not a fan of MPLs at all, which may show above, but I will note that I adore LPL's. They're more heat efficient than ML's, sport better range, and otherwise have great characteristics for mounting alongside ML's.

[Modo44]

Koniving, on 30 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

That is evil.
*Makes it.*

Please.

Edited by Modo44, 30 April 2014 - 12:05 PM.

[Koniving]

Modo44, on 30 April 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

Please.

Requires longer beam times. Yes more damaging at once, but not as 'quick and gone' in terms of actual damage. Definitely more efficient and so on though.