15 replies to this topic

[PaintedWolf]

So to be honest, when I think of Clans I think of Compeitition, and that makes me think a lot of the United States. Basically, we may not emphasize Native American Totem Animals, and Genetics, and Warrior Culture/Militarism as much (though we most certainly do) but we are very about compeitition. In the US, Competition is King. About as important as Capitalism, Democracy and Freedom. (Even Determinists in the US believe in Freedom. )

But the Clans are based on competition. For some reason this reminds me of the US- technologically ahead, meritocratic, competitive, divided into various States. We are more centralized perhaps, but somewhat Draconian in our compeition I feel.

I know many will note the Free Worlds League, which got taken by Blake. And those Davion ********, I call them Freddies. The Federated Kruegers who murder children in their sleep with claws. (Obviously British, with First Prince, Davion Loyalty Knights, Camelot, the Crown, the Proper Way, and all the other British crap.**)

So I actually saw the Clans as a whole as kind of the United States, and the Inner Sphere as Europe/Mid East/Asia.

We have Superior Tech and Competition, but they have older cultures and probably and larger list of dirty tricks. I guess the difference is- in real life/geopolitics- Clans won. We even beat Comstar/USSR/Communism. (I also see Word of Blake as fanatical Communists in a way, and the Post-Reaving Homeclans as kind of Fascistic. )

**Two things I will say about the British. First-

The Irish have a saying. "The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire because God would Never Trust the English, in the Dark."

Second is a British saying "It is an Equal Fault to Trust Eeveryone and No one. "

Discuss: Do the Clans represent American Culture/Ideas in a way?


Does the Inner Sphere represent the older River Valley Civilization Nexus? I.E. Mesapotamia, China, Egypt i.e. the really old civs?


I don't think the writers planned that consciously, but I think subconsciously some of these ideas were in the back of their minds. I mean America is certainly the super-technocratic, super-meritocratic culture based on competition.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 02 May 2014 - 09:13 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

In a way yes - in a lot more I would say definitely not.

[Lukoi Banacek]

More no than yes.

Davions are closer to American and Commonwealth culture tbh.

[MayGay]

FedSuns is definitely more Commonwealth and French than American. And I can see some logic to the train of thought. Republicans are the Crusader clans and Democrats are the Warden Clans.
Draconis combine is Slavic and Japanese.
Lyrans are the rest of northern Europe, though mainly German.
Liao are Chinese.
Marik I think are Greek.
ComStar could be USA too, that would make the stereotypical nukem till they glow then shoot em in the dark Americans WoB.
Outworlds Alliance is Canada.

[Vyviel]

Sorry to burst your bubble but Clans = Russia =P

http://www.sarna.net...ksandr_Kerensky

[Alaskan Nobody]

James Griffin, on 02 May 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

Republicans are the Crusader clans and Democrats are the Warden Clans.

I would flip those around - but whatever.

[Edward Mattlov]

Fed Suns are England. Marik and Clans are more like USA. Clan Coyote is based off of Native American lore.

[MayGay]

Shar Wolf, on 02 May 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

I would flip those around - but whatever.

I'm not American so if I got the two confused, I apologize.

Rephrase time
Bush = Crusader
Clinton = Warden

[Noesis]

I think someone has seen too many Star Wars movies and taken the message that the Brits must be the baddies since "Hollywood" told them so. But if you feel safer in your generalisations with negative views of modern cultures then so be it. But this says more about you personally as an individual than applying any real understanding about social and political morality. I guess its eaisier to understand us and them for economic or social concerns than recognising things in a more deeper context. I call it ignorance personally.

[Craig Steele]

PaintedWolf, on 02 May 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

So to be honest, when I think of Clans I think of Compeitition, and that makes me think a lot of the United States. Basically, we may not emphasize Native American Totem Animals, and Genetics, and Warrior Culture/Militarism as much (though we most certainly do) but we are very about compeitition. In the US, Competition is King. About as important as Capitalism, Democracy and Freedom. (Even Determinists in the US believe in Freedom. )

But the Clans are based on competition. For some reason this reminds me of the US- technologically ahead, meritocratic, competitive, divided into various States. We are more centralized perhaps, but somewhat Draconian in our compeition I feel.

I know many will note the Free Worlds League, which got taken by Blake. And those Davion ********, I call them Freddies. The Federated Kruegers who murder children in their sleep with claws. (Obviously British, with First Prince, Davion Loyalty Knights, Camelot, the Crown, the Proper Way, and all the other British crap.**)

So I actually saw the Clans as a whole as kind of the United States, and the Inner Sphere as Europe/Mid East/Asia.

We have Superior Tech and Competition, but they have older cultures and probably and larger list of dirty tricks. I guess the difference is- in real life/geopolitics- Clans won. We even beat Comstar/USSR/Communism. (I also see Word of Blake as fanatical Communists in a way, and the Post-Reaving Homeclans as kind of Fascistic. )

**Two things I will say about the British. First-

The Irish have a saying. "The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire because God would Never Trust the English, in the Dark."

Second is a British saying "It is an Equal Fault to Trust Eeveryone and No one. "

Discuss: Do the Clans represent American Culture/Ideas in a way?


Does the Inner Sphere represent the older River Valley Civilization Nexus? I.E. Mesapotamia, China, Egypt i.e. the really old civs?


I don't think the writers planned that consciously, but I think subconsciously some of these ideas were in the back of their minds. I mean America is certainly the super-technocratic, super-meritocratic culture based on competition.

I think it depends alot on which aspect of the culture you want to compare to.

For example, The Clans democratically elect their leader from a certain leadership body which is not dis similar to the model for many modern nations today. The IS States on the other hand are all feudal autocratic overlord styles and have zero comparison to modern democracies (I always wonder why people say Davion is so much freedom loving, peace makers etc, they couldn't be any further from the truth in canon)

The Clans however are also a lot like the mid 19th Centuary European States like Prussia. Basically everything is about supporting the military and the Military drives the governance of the State. Very strong Nationalism is a key part of this with pride in the armed forces (and their acheivements) driving much of the states sense of well being.

In the Clans, technology advancements are pursued where it has a benefit to the military. So they are not really driving competition across the board as a cultural thing, they just want to be the best warriors that ever existed. Their competitive aspect is reasonably narrow. For the average Clan civilan, life is fairly plain, with living quarters being the big item in their day that might vary. Health, Education and food is all Clan provided in exchange for work quota's.

From a nomenclature point of view, much of their titles are driven from Mongol / Steppe tribes yet the Clans could never be described as nomadic (with maybe the Goliath Scorpians having the closest affiliation with any sort of Nomadic mindset).

So the Clans do draw on a lot of inspiration for different aspects of their culture, and even within different Clans there can be distinct differences.

I would not compare them to America per se, if you had to compare to a current nation they are more of a modern Chinese State than anything with a different internal economy.

[Alaskan Nobody]

James Griffin, on 02 May 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Rephrase time
Bush = Crusader
Clinton = Warden

Bush went to war yes - but Clinton stood for more open and drastic change.

Having said that - depending on how you view the political parties (and the clans) that could very easily be disputed.
One tip though - political statements (even one as harmless as these) can very easily start flame wars - so that would be one of those topics it might be better to leave to a PM.

[Edward Mattlov]

Shar Wolf, on 02 May 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

Bush went to war yes - but Clinton stood for more open and drastic change.

Having said that - depending on how you view the political parties (and the clans) that could very easily be disputed.
One tip though - political statements (even one as harmless as these) can very easily start flame wars - so that would be one of those topics it might be better to leave to a PM.

Clinton used federal paramilitary forces against American citizens in the interior of america (Branch Davidian), bosnia herzegovina = Clinton too. There is no parallel between Crusaders and Wardens in the USA except for philosophical differences.

James Griffin, on 02 May 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

I'm not American so if I got the two confused, I apologize.

Rephrase time
Bush = Crusader
Clinton = Warden

You are woefully ignorant, but I excuse that, because I would not claim to know everything about your country either.

[NocturnalBeast]

Noesis, on 02 May 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

I think someone has seen too many Star Wars movies and taken the message that the Brits must be the baddies since "Hollywood" told them so. But if you feel safer in your generalisations with negative views of modern cultures then so be it. But this says more about you personally as an individual than applying any real understanding about social and political morality. I guess its eaisier to understand us and them for economic or social concerns than recognising things in a more deeper context. I call it ignorance personally.

Noesis, although I have been away for a short time, I feel as though I must interject. Only the most ignorant of Americans would believe that all British are "baddies". Although many of my ancestors were legitimately wronged by the British, I have no ill will towards modern Brits. In fact, Americans and British have more in common than not. Let us please just leave this fictional universe as fictional.

[I am myLoves_Discarded]

Liao= Chinese/Russian influences

Kurita= Japanese w/Swedish influence in the Rasalhague facing Prefectures (slight Arab influence near Terran Corridor)

Davion= Anglo-Saxon/French

Steiner= Germanic/Swiss (money acumen)
Isle of Skye- Welsh/Gaelic?
Marik- Eastern European (Hungary/Czech/Albania/Romania/...India)

Terran Hegemony= America. We got the closest, earliest-colonized life-capable planets. The most advanced, everyone else had to go farther out. But the Camerons wanted ppl loyal to the WHOLE Hegemony, not to a former nation-state so they, over 200 years, carrot and sticked them into closer relations with fancy tech and weapons. When Amaris Christmas-couped Terra, his troops were attacking other TH planets as well. The planets colonized by Americans were the hardest nuts to crack due to pig-headedness and those fancier-than-others-have mechs. S'okay tho. Terra was the prize and anything destroyed can be rebuilt after the war. Let the nukes FALL.
That was the end of any concentrated American-centric colonies. And many highly advanced planets.

Star League= League of Nations/ United Nations/ E.U./ that bully you knew in elementary school

Comstar = AT&T You hate them and wish they would just disappear, painfully. However, they serve a purpose. When they aren't serving their own diabolical long term interests. 'till 3052 when WOB takes all that with them, and Comstar still gets judged by the actions of the original entity after turning a new leaf.

Word of Blake= Shinko Gouken AT&T + NSA. What you didn't think AT&T or the NSA could get worse? Well mebbe Comstar is better than AT&T but WOB is definitely EVIL AT&T.


Rasalhague=Sweden/Japanese
St. Ives Compact= Taiwan. After 3062 that would be post '99 Hong Kong tho.
Free Tikonov Republic= Russian/Slav/Cossack

Marian Hegemony= Toga! ARR! Toga! ARR! TOGA! (Just cross Blackbeard with Julius Caesar)

Lothian League= Something non-Swedish Scandinavian

Jarnfolk= Scandinavian/Germanic

The Clans are more a collection of closely-related, commonly derived, but ultimately diverging Might is Right cultures; purposely living on marginal or barely hospitable planets. A much closer comparison, and probably a contributory role-model, would be the Mongol horde. They had a tech advantage against plague-riddled Europe. They were a violent culture where your martial abilities earned your place. And they were closely related but separate peoples whose finest hour was achieved after a leader arose from one and led all.
If any Clans came close-
The Wolves are the most egalitarian- if you have skill and brains you will have a place regardless of true/free-birth status.
Diamond Sharks (Sea Foxes)- Swiss banking meets Gypsy wandering at BUD/S (mebbe most closest to American ideals with an equal emphasis on military, monetary, and personal advancement but only after present Khan Hawker offs himself)

Nova Cats- Mystics like Native American Shamanism, or mebbe a little Shinto/ancestor veneration?

Smoke Jaguars- STOOPID SPARTANS: YOU BAD, ME MAD, ME CRUSH, "I'm gunna kill you, Hodor". And yet, FIDELIS.

Jade Falcon- China's governmental policies without any ethnicity leanings.

Goliath Scorpions- Its Woodstock at the Shooting Range during a Society for Creative Anachronisms reenactment, and afterwards I'm going on walkaboot with my 'mech, my familiar, and my trophies... errrrr, bondsppl so fill my spot in the Trinary, plz. Yes, I secretly like them. Don't tell no one.

Coyotes- Fallen stars not realizing that their glory days are behind, their foes have always, and will always outnumber their friends; their arrogance exceeds their abilities; And the best they have ahead is being the red-headed stepchild-outcast residing amongst the resentful survivors of a betrayal a small portion of Coyotes perpetrated on the rest of Clan society. I like them as well. Oh yeah, they mystical sumwhat, too.

More later, unless you say uncle.

:-P

Vyviel, on 02 May 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but Clans = Russia =P

http://www.sarna.net...ksandr_Kerensky

no He was born in Moscow, but You were Loyal to the TH. His ancestry might have influenced his actions but not because he was loyal to a former nation-state.

[Harper Steel]

sounds like Craig Steele has it right..

[Egomane]

I'm afraid, the OP goes a little to much into a political and national/racial debate.

Please be more respectful to the nations and nationality of other players and try not to depict them in a way that might be insulting to them.

I'm therefore closing this thread.

Edited by Egomane, 02 May 2014 - 11:31 PM.