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Never Play Again - Lrms


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#181 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:59 AM

View PostEider, on 13 May 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

ignoring that it is an indirect weapon you can fire with no risks.

Right there you shot your argument in the foot buddy.

If you think those get fired without risks, you have not been fighting anyone competent when using them.

#182 Novakaine

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:19 PM

And herein lies the problem.
No one wants to actually use a neuron or two to learn the game.
Poor COD generation.

#183 Kjudoon

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:15 PM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 14 May 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I've found an easy way to at least temporarily stop a LRM boat from firing..

I carry streaks..lock on at any distance away and fire the streak..maters not if they have any chance of hitting..the "Warning: Incomng missile" warning being announced to the pilot of an LRM boat often puts the fear of God in them and they start scurrying around for cover....then you can close the distance and finish them off

Psychological warfare tactic is logical. :)

#184 The Dreaded Baron B Killer

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:46 PM

View PostNovakaine, on 14 May 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:


Poor COD generation.


COD? ADD? ADHD? DDC ABC 123?

lol

#185 Variant1

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:10 PM

View Postdbassa, on 03 May 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hey

i rly liked this game, as i liked all the MW games before this.

BUT

Im just askin me;

Why are Players, that have to make thoughts about engines, balanced loadouts, heatsinks etc not earned?

They got to aim, they are playin in the frontlines or at least in the forward 70% battlefield.

Instead, little noobs earn so much CBills, do so much DMG and all they got to do is to wait for a ******* red circle.

Just wanted to get rid of my frustration, because of LRMS i will never play this game again and i hope more ppl follow me and show the developers, that balance is a need for a good game,

This is NOT a good game.

Thx [redacted]


Look i don't like the way lrms are too, but don't stop playing the game. Simply play more passively and hug very tall cover.
go to this thread please http://mwomercs.com/...rms-suggestion/


View PostFlaming oblivion, on 03 May 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

LRM's are the most situational unreliable weapons in game with the most hard and soft counters. Not to mention the slowest moving, the warning you get when they're coming , The minimum range .


Yes because spaming large amounts of missiles over hills is totally unreliable i mean right? sticking behind the team and doing the most dmg? As for the projectile speed it won't matter because ill be raining lrms on you're face behind a hill while you can do nothing but watch. As for the min range, pfff what min range you'll be dead before you get to me. Yup not reliable at all.

Edited by Variant1, 19 May 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#186 White Bear 84

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:09 PM

View PostBaronBastardKiller, on 14 May 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:


COD? ADD? ADHD? DDC ABC 123?

lol


D-DC?

#187 wanderer

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:51 PM

View PostVariant1, on 19 May 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Yes because spaming large amounts of missiles over hills is totally unreliable i mean right? sticking behind the team and doing the most dmg? As for the projectile speed it won't matter because ill be raining lrms on you're face behind a hill while you can do nothing but watch. As for the min range, pfff what min range you'll be dead before you get to me. Yup not reliable at all.


As an LRM boater, I find it's the people like this that develop a false sense of safety that end up getting killed first. Take a recent battle on Caustic.

I had two other fellows with LRMs in a PUG with me. They indeed sat behind the hill and rained LRMs down willy-nilly. Some even hit.

Then the enemy lance who'd gone around to the hill behind US opened fire while I was circling to the side looking for better shots. The other two boats stopped supporting and over the course of three minutes exploded messily, having 1) Frozen in place, 2) No ability to return fire due to ECM, and 3) Decided to scream for help rather than move into the front or into cover from the people drilling them at 600 or so meters range.

Meanwhile, I was safely around the curve of the caldera and killing things from 200m closer than the aforementioned noob boats, we cleaned up while the LRM boats did their Hindenburg impressions, and then I ended up killing the ECM Raven with the lance that ganked the other two, because silly me, I learned to use more keys than R and the missile fire button, he thought I was as dumb as the other two, and waltzed right into the LOS of the two Jagermechs as I led him to meet my friends the Dakka brothers. A liberal application of my secondary ML/MG mounts and voila, burning birdie.

An LRM boat is only as easymode as the enemy lets it be. In this case, they recognized the threat, kept 120 tubes silent (and then dead, 2 LOL Stalkers), and if I'd been dull enough to fight like a noob boat, they'd have gotten my 30 gone as well on my Jagermech-A and 3 easy kills instead of 2, possibly the entire game as I managed to cripple 3 opponents with missile fire after they'd ganked the two Stalkers.

Later on, I was taking two Liao Catapult pilots out for a training run in PUGs- and they hadn't learned that an aggressive and mobile LRM user is a better one yet. I was putting up twice the damage they were at first in my Jager-A until they got some time in the spectator seat (being dead) watching me fight...and then they started catching up and carrying harder, because they stopped fighting like you described. Passively, unaggressively, and predictably. LRMs are a psychological weapon, a flinch-maker, a send-em-scurrying system that can herd and pin opponents that can't keep up with where and what you're doing. Likewise, it can be countered and if the opponent doesn't flinch...well, those tend to be unhealthy games if you don't know what to do with the OTHER guns in your 'Mech, assuming you're not dumb enough to lack them.

#188 William Warriors

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:15 PM

GAME KEEP CRASHING ALL THE TIME AND WEAPON CONFIG KEEP GETTING MESSED UP.. FIX YOUR GAME YOU WORTHLESS TWITS... DAMN PGI.

#189 Angry Kittens in a Mech

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:32 PM

Give the game a chance man.

"A thinking mans shooter" says it all.

I've only been playing a couple of months and I still kinda suck, but my KDA and L/W ratios have all improved for some simple reasons:

Learn the maps:
From game 1 you will feel lost. Guess why? You are.
Each map has multiple paths, hiding spots, sniping points, deployable team tactics etc. You will learn something new every match, over time you can exploit that knowledge.

Learn the Mechs:
IRL my money is on a commando kicking a banshees ass. Super ninja vs Ghosty thing? np, hoo-rah, and death from above!
In game this is not the case. There are no ninjas or ghosts - so learn the role and limits of weights and classes, then learn what those Mechs do. They all perform, chase, shoot, absorb damage(etc) differently. At first it seems subtle, and then it all starts to make sense.

The "Pew Pew Pew" of it all:
This isn't CoD or BF. Camping and getting headshots won't count for **** here, in fact your team might just shoot you instead.
The damage system here is fairly strange but the basics are the basics. Focus fire. The damage seems to be exponential, ie: your team can drop an Atlas in about 5 seconds. Solo? Good luck having a face.
Don't worry about "stealing kills" - you are all there to win. On that note: Don't be a ***** KS'r that only shoots at 30% targets.

As a new player I advise a very simple strategy: Follow your team. Always. Let them pick the fights and the targets, support them in the battle. Their is no harm or shame in staying with the pack to do what they need you to do: be a supportive team mate. Hands down win or loss thats all your team expects: people playing WITH the team.

And lastly: Ask.
Every game I have ever played in 20 years has trolls, {Richard Cameron}, ********, pervs and {Richard Cameron} and trolls.
Personally, I find a complete minority of them in MWO.
Not everyone will talk or give you tips. Plenty more will.
I like this community and how they play with and against each other. Trust me, they know you are new. And 90% are ok with that. And also trust me: We ALL hate that other 10%.
Stay in the death cam and ask quick questions in ALL CHAT or TEAM CHAT. 50/50 someone bites and now you know a little more. We all start somewhere, and we all have our own pace. Don't be discouraged - just return fire.

GL and by all means HF

#190 Koniving

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:03 PM

View PostAngry Kittens in a Mech, on 19 May 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

GL and by all means HF


Good first post. :(

I personally miss some of the thinking person's shooter elements that used to be in; like a reason to play the objective (it used to pay more to win assault by base capture; now it is not only harder to do but pays nothing at all and so people stopped playing to the objective). It's my hope some of these will come back in once PGI gets over this current hurdle with the Clan Mechs and Community Warfare.
-----------------------
And to others:

Many elements in the game do require some thought. However, People are upset about LRMs because recently LRMs got buffed to travel faster and the actual 'thought' required to run them before has completely departed from the game. It's not the fact that they sit behind the front lines firing that is a problem. In fact that's almost never been a problem. They make huge sacrifices to carry their weapons and their ammunition is nearly worthless. The problem is that LRMs are so worthless by themselves they have to be packed on in large amounts, and fired at insanely rapid speeds to have a hope that half of them might actually hit their target..partially, if at all.

This leads us to the real problem. This constant spam from multiple players firing about a dozen launchers annoys, immobilizes, blinds, and essentially stalemates the entire game. There's no time to move. The missiles are pathetically weak but the thought of the constant non-stop spam makes players too afraid to advance and fight.

In the long run, it stalls the game and makes players feel absolutely powerless.

The only things wrong with missiles? Too little damage when they hit; making LRMs feel worthless to the user so the player has to pack in lots more of them. They fire too frequently; making them a great weapon for endless spam to keep enemies away, while also making the target feel completely powerless and alienating the 'target' into wanting to just give up.

The latter part makes a new player who is the recipient of the missiles discouraged to the point of quitting due to the obvious imbalance caused by the frequency of LRM fire.

Truth be told, the DPS of LRMs is surprisingly effective despite being so pathetically weak compared to most weapons. It's the frequency that is the problem. Why is it a problem? The lack of time. Players need time to react, time to go from cover to cover, time to move, to engage, to flank.

In real life, when artillery comes down you have between 30 seconds to 2 minutes before it comes down again.
Even up against a heavy MG emplacement, the MG eventually stops firing due to overheat (doesn't happen much in MWO; lasts maybe 2 seconds) or reloading (...there's never a pause to reload when the users chain fire, because the time between reloads per individual launcher is much too short).

Maintaining the DPS by condensing two salvos into one solves the problem in the form of both a nerf and a buff that in reality does nothing but remove the spam. In removing the spam, we could even reduce the LRM count to 120 missiles per ton (as it's supposed to be in the first place), which combined with slower reload speeds will make boating LRMs less attractive in a tactical light. (Even with several LRM-15s chain fired, at 8.5 seconds to reload each launcher and the enemy fires 4 LRM-15s one at a time.. 0, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5.. there's exactly 7 seconds for you to reposition to new cover, to begin a flank, to rush the enemy, to sneak behind the enemy, to sharp shoot the enemy, to call for help, whatever you need to do to deal with the threat).

Double damage, double heat, double reload time, cut missiles per ton of ammunition 120 [having 'so many' will not be as needed since players will be more tactful with their firing patterns]. (LRMs weren't that much smaller than SRMs, it's 120 missiles for LRMs and 100 missiles for SRMs) o.O;

Edited by Koniving, 19 May 2014 - 09:04 PM.


#191 IraqiWalker

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:18 PM

View PostVariant1, on 19 May 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Yes because spaming large amounts of missiles over hills is totally unreliable i mean right? sticking behind the team and doing the most dmg? As for the projectile speed it won't matter because ill be raining lrms on you're face behind a hill while you can do nothing but watch. As for the min range, pfff what min range you'll be dead before you get to me. Yup not reliable at all.


I'm not exactly defending LRM boats here, but you clearly have not analyzed LRM boats properly. The only time LRM boats become even close to reliable, is when the enemy is packed full of reckless idiots who decide to charge open terrain (where ballistics and lasers do infinitely more damage, faster and more accurately, than LRMs). Or decide not to use ECM or proper cover. The maps don't consist of very tall cover everywhere, because that would turn the game into a rail shooter, however, there is ample cover to make sure you don't get hit easily, if at all. Unless you make a mistake.

LRMs are the most vulnerable and easy to shut down system BECAUSE they are indirect fire. LRM boats have to rely on other players being spotters (meaning they aren't using their firepower while spotting, to hide themselves). Then you have to worry about the flight path of the missiles and hope they don't get caught on an invisible wall, or a piece of terrain you didn't remember was there. They also force the mech fielding them to take large launchers, and use all available space, and tonnage for ammo. Which means that they almost always run XL engines, making them even easier to bring down. The aforementioned space, and ammo issues mean that LRM boats ususaly have little to no back up weapons to protect them if they encounter an enemy with ECM, or within minimum range.

Basically, LRMs are a gamble, you forsake serious direct firepower, and bet all your chips on your spotters getting good leads for you to kill enemies and weaken the opposing team while sustaining minimal losses. If the enemy team is smart, and uses ECM/Cover, and kills the first batch of spotters, that LRM boat just became a giant paperweight.

#192 Koniving

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:27 PM

The fates of Missile Boats up close.
Shortened version of 6 long minutes of complete helplessness back in the day. This is still a relatively standard design, short some missiles for a couple of medium lasers (which still would not have helped me much).


The more frequent fate of missile boats.


Even the almighty ROFLpult suffers. (At the time of this video, the LRM did 1.4 damage per missile. It currently does 1.1 but travels faster.)


Of course if you haven't seen how the Roflpult is built... you probably should. It has less armor than a Locust. Each "LRM-15" is 1 ton more than an AC/2, meaning this carries more weight than the 6 AC/2 Jagermech in just weapons, requiring huge sacrifices in speed and armor to carry ammunition and even then only manages to carry 6 tons of ammunition.

Edited by Koniving, 19 May 2014 - 08:34 PM.


#193 Flaming oblivion

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:02 PM

View Postwanderer, on 19 May 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:


As an LRM boater, I find it's the people like this that develop a false sense of safety that end up getting killed first. Take a recent battle on Caustic.

I had two other fellows with LRMs in a PUG with me. They indeed sat behind the hill and rained LRMs down willy-nilly. Some even hit.

Then the enemy lance who'd gone around to the hill behind US opened fire while I was circling to the side looking for better shots. The other two boats stopped supporting and over the course of three minutes exploded messily, having 1) Frozen in place, 2) No ability to return fire due to ECM, and 3) Decided to scream for help rather than move into the front or into cover from the people drilling them at 600 or so meters range.

Meanwhile, I was safely around the curve of the caldera and killing things from 200m closer than the aforementioned noob boats, we cleaned up while the LRM boats did their Hindenburg impressions, and then I ended up killing the ECM Raven with the lance that ganked the other two, because silly me, I learned to use more keys than R and the missile fire button, he thought I was as dumb as the other two, and waltzed right into the LOS of the two Jagermechs as I led him to meet my friends the Dakka brothers. A liberal application of my secondary ML/MG mounts and voila, burning birdie.

An LRM boat is only as easymode as the enemy lets it be. In this case, they recognized the threat, kept 120 tubes silent (and then dead, 2 LOL Stalkers), and if I'd been dull enough to fight like a noob boat, they'd have gotten my 30 gone as well on my Jagermech-A and 3 easy kills instead of 2, possibly the entire game as I managed to cripple 3 opponents with missile fire after they'd ganked the two Stalkers.

Later on, I was taking two Liao Catapult pilots out for a training run in PUGs- and they hadn't learned that an aggressive and mobile LRM user is a better one yet. I was putting up twice the damage they were at first in my Jager-A until they got some time in the spectator seat (being dead) watching me fight...and then they started catching up and carrying harder, because they stopped fighting like you described. Passively, unaggressively, and predictably. LRMs are a psychological weapon, a flinch-maker, a send-em-scurrying system that can herd and pin opponents that can't keep up with where and what you're doing. Likewise, it can be countered and if the opponent doesn't flinch...well, those tend to be unhealthy games if you don't know what to do with the OTHER guns in your 'Mech, assuming you're not dumb enough to lack them.

I kind of agree with the aggressive boat here , But you have to be extremely careful in los your massively out classed by snipers and brawlers on almost every front . The most effective way to play a lrm boat effectively is with a brawler or 2 infront of you , Which is all well and good until you enter pug land and quite often cant rely on anyone .

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 19 May 2014 - 09:04 PM.


#194 White Bear 84

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:05 PM

I wont go into your post in detail purely because I am at work, but you have pretty much nailed it..

On another note.....

View PostKoniving, on 19 May 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

It's my hope some of these will come back in once PGI gets over this current hurdle with the Clan Mechs and Community Warfare.


Posted Image

"The realisation that CW and Clan Mechs are not going to be as easy as we first thought..."

#195 Kjudoon

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:22 PM

View PostWhite Bear 84, on 19 May 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:


D-DC?



#196 Koniving

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:41 AM

Someone in the perfect screenshot thread got the perfect image related here..

Posted Image

Missile spam. o.O; (I know the 'motion blur' anti-aliasing knockoff is being shown here making it look worse, but that's how it feels. Fire thousands of missiles, and maybe 600 of them will hurt the enemy and possibly 100 of them will have killed an enemy or two).

#197 KoshiManiac

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:30 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 03 May 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

LRMs are too easy to avoid and defeat!'


Agreed before I got AMS on my mech (first was a Locust) I only had to run for cover to avoid them and now I don't mind since I'm too inexperienced to do much good for now and at least I could knock down some missles.

My advice based on all the different games I played is this either adapt to how the game goes and get better every time or just uninstall since it isn't for you.





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