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Am I A Bad Person?

Gameplay General Balance

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#1 Koniving

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:36 AM

I ask because in a new player thread about hanging in there for the May 6th patch which will bring back "balance" on the new player levels... I gave this response, which I did with both the great fun I've been having and memories of how much better Closed Beta felt both in terms of in-game community, cooperation, pug team unity, in player willingness to try new things, and finally in "never knowing what the enemy has."

View PostKoniving, on 04 May 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

While I admit things will be more balanced on the 6th, I've had both some of my best games playing solo and some of the most fun I've had in ages in this past week.

The risk of a 12 player organized premade group dropping against you means a highly organized and challenging force; it's made pug players much more cooperative when a commander steps up to the plate and throws down some orders. Instead of "Beep you" or "screw yourself noob," I'm seeing "Yes sir!" "Omw (On my way)." "Roger that."

I've seen much more of the maps being used. Instead of the default strategies, players are willing to go to new locations. You know the fight at I9 that always happens on Alpine; Snipers Hill? The enemy took it after we wiped out an entire lance at the most southern part of the map that no one has played in for 1.5 years! It was thrilling. Instead of trying to climb the mountain, I gave orders to take the J/K9 mountain across from it and we had the high ground that overlooked the meta highground, and blasted them to crap! But, their base could LRM us, so I and another player or so went and made our assault on the enemy base to take out the turrets.

I wiped out 5 of them in my Ember (firestarter hero mech), but got attacked by some Muromets hiding out there. After having fought 1 medium, 1 light and 2 heavies head to head with only the help of a Centurion (I was scouting, the Centurion followed me, and I gave orders to cut off enemy retreats whenever I found something; they usually showed up at the last second) in a 97 kph standard engine Ember (35 ton light mech; no speedster here!) armed with 1 MPL, 2 SL and 4 MGs, + five turrets mostly by myself (as their main target) I wasn't in the best shape anymore and so the AC/20 + 2 AC/10 combination instantly obliterated me after two misses. (No wonder he was hiding in the base; there's no way you'd have enough ammo to take on much with that build!)

My team wiped out the entire force except for the Muromets when the time ran out. The funniest thing, the entire enemy force had Steiner tags -- that almost never happens unless it is a 12-player premade force. In other words, a clusterduck of pugs obeying orders of an experienced player virtually beat an entire 12 man premade.

The low number of assaults but the high number of heavies per match is making it very easy to win against them with a counter insurgency of a large number of lights and mediums. Weight matching altogether seems to be gone and that, too, has been extremely joyous for me because my Lights have had a chance for the first time in ages.

But, that's an old player living some of the best times the game has had since closed beta.

Edit: play changed to plate. (I just woke up).


It seems as if I might be the only one who had fun. Though that may be for the new players. What about the more experienced players who have been playing solo? What has been your experience?

#2 Roughneck45

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:40 AM

The only thing I've noticed are way more atlas pilots on the field, and a lot more assaults in general.

Taking advantage of our last week without 3/3/3/3 I suppose.

Edited by Roughneck45, 04 May 2014 - 09:40 AM.


#3 ShinVector

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:41 AM

Honestly... I am one of those who do not mine fighting 12 mans in pug...
It is a challenge that can be reasonably defeated unless your facing top tier 12 mans.

This 12 Man mixed with PUG balanced with ELO was something PGI promised in the past when they implemented 12 mans.

Edited by ShinVector, 04 May 2014 - 09:43 AM.


#4 Bartholomew bartholomew

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:44 AM

Been having a grand ol' time.

Have not run up against a 12man yet. But had a match on HPG where somebody was trolling the command button. So I took it and said "take the high ground and watch the hotel" A newer player asked what that was. So it told him it was the underneath side. They split in two. A lance and a half hid in the hotel while we ploughed the rest from above. Then a few trickled out. And finally we killed the last two in the hotel.

#5 Bulletsponge0

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:45 AM

Clearly you are a bad person..with all the tips, advice, words of encouragement, training videos etc that you post.....you're worse than {Godwin's Law} :)

#6 Koniving

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:46 AM

View PostRoughneck45, on 04 May 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

The only thing I've noticed are way more atlas pilots on the field, and a lot more assaults in general.

Taking advantage of our last week without 3/3/3/3 I suppose.


I experienced a lot more heavies (as kinda mentioned above). And my teams usually had a lot of lights and more mediums than heavies or assaults. So it's been an interesting experience. The most I've seen is 4 assaults and the least I've seen is zero, with 1 and 2 being typical numbers and they're quickly wiped out by the large numbers of heavies I've been facing.

But, at different ELOs or even when using different mechs we're often seeing very different things. I tend to play at night, when matchmaker is usually at its worse and it typically can't match 'weights' too well (which is why I love it!)

With more assaults in the field, what do you do to counter them? Are you also running an assault? If not, what are you in? What strategies have you tried? I know the AC/20 + 3 SRM-6 builds are really easy to take care of. Have you seen many meta builds or non-meta builds?

Edited by Koniving, 04 May 2014 - 10:00 AM.


#7 Koniving

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:04 AM

For those having trouble with assaults, this video by Lordred may help lights that have to face them. At one point he's up against an Atlas + a Victor at the same time.


#8 Roughneck45

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:09 AM

View PostKoniving, on 04 May 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

With more assaults in the field, what do you do to counter them? Are you also running an assault? If not, what are you in? What strategies have you tried? I know the AC/20 + 3 SRM-6 builds are really easy to take care of. Have you seen many meta builds or non-meta builds?

Lost a lot of the matches, that was with a group too. We were mixed, I was in a heavy.

Usually a meta lance I recognize on the other side, then a 4 man of DDC's with them too. Most of the matches I was busy sniping the known threats and then got flanked by an Atlas wall lol.

#9 Koniving

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:20 AM

View PostRoughneck45, on 04 May 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Usually a meta lance I recognize on the other side, then a 4 man of DDC's with them too. Most of the matches I was busy sniping the known threats and then got flanked by an Atlas wall lol.


A good meta lance of D-DCs would have two AC/20 + 3 SRM-6 + LL brawlers mixed with 2 PPC + LRM and duo AC5 fighters. Hard to fight. First stage is to take out the LRMs on the LRM-using Atlases. After that it'll be significantly easier to fight them at range. If you don't have range, well then things hit the fan and its time to come up with another plan or stop playing Skirmish. :)

If its just the brawler sort then keeping your eyes open helps. What's your FOV? In the user.cfg I use "CL_Fov = 90" no quotes. Gives me a great field of view. Though if you have a Banshee.. Here's two ideas. One; this was just for something different. Two; group play the night 3/3/3/3 was disabled, this one butchered a brawler D-DC in seconds and made him back off, and made the Muromets next to him run!

Now in a group, I've seen BOATloads of Atlases. But not when by myself.

skip to 5:59 as the first half is crashes and other things the night of matchmaker's patch.

#10 Trauglodyte

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:22 AM

I've seen most of your videos so, yes, you are a bad person. :) (I kid)

#11 Wolfways

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:27 AM

Mechs are not balanced by weight and imo 3/3/3/3 will not bring the balance that many expect. I will be happy to see less lights though :)
And closed beta was much more fun because we weren't all using T2 equipment and mechs were, in general, not running around at Mach1 :ph34r:

Edited by Wolfways, 04 May 2014 - 10:29 AM.


#12 Koniving

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:29 AM

View PostTrauglodyte, on 04 May 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

I've seen most of your videos so, yes, you are a bad person. :ph34r: (I kid)

I know. :) The question is more bait. But on the topic of the May 6th patch bringing more balance, I find myself not looking forward to it. I am, in fact, having lots more fun and a stronger feeling of community inside the game itself with what seems like all of PGI's matchmaker balancing almost completely removed from the game. On a serious note, does that make me a bad person? o.O;

Does anyone else not look forward to the fix? If so, why? If not, why not?

#13 Dago Red

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:31 AM

Eh a drops a drop win or lose as long as I get to hurt some people is all good. And if you get rolled you relaunch an move on. Nothing to kick up a fuss about.

So I'm indifferent to the fix but I'm not looking forward to 3/3/3/3. I like things loose and wild and that ratio is far too rigid.

I'm honestly not sure why the cross team weight class matching we used to have wasn't good enough.

Edited by Dago Red, 04 May 2014 - 10:44 AM.


#14 Koniving

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:43 AM

I'll go first. Here's why I'm not looking forward to the fix, as removing the restrictions of weight entirely and mixing the 12 player premades into the regular stream have produced these results at my ELO level. These results may not be the same for you, which is why I would like everyone's input.
  • As mentioned in the original post, I'm finding that the pugs are much more willing to cooperate with a commander than I've ever seen since closed beta.
  • I have found the use of basic tactics and strategies to be more prevalent with more cooperative players; to the point that through some basic commands from a player in a 97 kph firestarter, defeated a 12 man premade even when a large enemy force took the meta position that normally would always leads to victory for the team who took it.
  • I am finding that many unusual areas of the maps are being used.
    • Outskirts of Terra Therma. Other Volcanos as sniping points.
    • On Alpine, the South, West, and high North ends are in use even when they are not starting points. I discovered for the first time that there are open garages on some bases that I never have seen before; because we had a fight there instead of the I9 hill! High mountains on the edges have been used even!
    • On River city I've seen enemies on cranes and hiding in garages or behind frigates.
    • On Tourmaline Desert I actually found 2 enemies inside of a crashed dropship, leaping out of it to ambush me!
    • On Frozen City I saw a 6 player brawl occur at the docks.
  • Without the "enemy has exactly what we have" tidbit, I've found scouts eager to scout and report back. I've found players reporting positions and compositions of enemies. I've seen huge light and medium mech lances with one or two heavies/assaults face off against mediums, heavies and assaults and win triumphantly.
  • I've had enemies smart enough to outwit me when I thought I was outwitting them.
  • I've seen the thought-extinct role warfare actually start to resurface with players offering to not just scout or LRM, but asking for high ridges to provide direct fire support from.
  • But most of all, I've had fun. The most fun I've had since Closed Beta.
Those are my reasons for not looking forward to the May 6th patch.

#15 Fang01

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:45 AM

Honestly I don't know what happened in the roll back patch but whatever it did has worked great for me. Havent been as active since the patch (new relationship and booty > battlemechs) but the couple good nights I've had to drop have been fantastic. Mostly been taking my flame and have managed to knock my deficit to 2.0 from 36 to 19 :)

#16 Koniving

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:47 AM

View PostDago Red, on 04 May 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

I'm honestly not sure why the cross team weight class matching we used to have wasn't good enough.

"Too many assaults" is the largest complaint. Simple Repair & Rearm would fix that (but it needs a massive overhaul that PGI can't do before Community Warfare). I personally wanted tonnage-based matchmaking where both teams had a tonnage limit. Say 660 tons for example. Very little room for assaults, plenty of room for lights and mediums though, and some room for heavies. Mediums were supposed to be the mainstay of forces but that hasn't happened since R&R died. 800 tons per team for a bit more flexbility if needed.

#17 Levi Porphyrogenitus

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:54 AM

View PostKoniving, on 04 May 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

"Too many assaults" is the largest complaint. Simple Repair & Rearm would fix that (but it needs a massive overhaul that PGI can't do before Community Warfare). I personally wanted tonnage-based matchmaking where both teams had a tonnage limit. Say 660 tons for example. Very little room for assaults, plenty of room for lights and mediums though, and some room for heavies. Mediums were supposed to be the mainstay of forces but that hasn't happened since R&R died. 800 tons per team for a bit more flexbility if needed.


I'd love a MechCommander-style drop weight limit, where the whole team gets bonus c-bills for dropping under weight, and where you can drop with fewer than 12 pilots if you run too heavy.

#18 Dago Red

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:54 AM

Maybe 780? Room for an even 65 tonner for everyone and plenty of wiggle room for assaults with a few lights and smaller mediums on your team. Always seemed like a more elegant solution than what they're going with now.

Plus when Clans come in if they're still overpowered you could give them a lower team weight limit to simulate battle value a bit.

At the end of the day I exclusively pilot Hunchbacks so I'm not much effected by the whole thing.

Edited by Dago Red, 04 May 2014 - 10:59 AM.


#19 Hammerhai

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:54 AM

Also had a huge amount of fun in my Flame with 4 LL. Nice making an Atlas miss an AC20 shot as I breeze by his hiding place because I was doing 103 kph. Not so nice having him tell the boomjag 2 blocks down to intercept me, which he did.

And a whole series of matches where everybody agreed it was gg close.

#20 Koniving

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:58 AM

View PostLevi Porphyrogenitus, on 04 May 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'd love a MechCommander-style drop weight limit, where the whole team gets bonus c-bills for dropping under weight, and where you can drop with fewer than 12 pilots if you run too heavy.

Only way that (bonuses for being under weight and fewer than 12 pilots) is gonna happen is through Dropships and logistics on the Merc versus Merc system of CW. (Signature link on the left "What 3/3/3/3 cost us" if interested as it describes a scenario just like that...) Trust me it's something I'd love too. Where if you are under weight, you could also have reinforcement mechs in the match too. You'll love that read. :)

While I'd love to see that for all matches, it wouldn't be practical or fair to random players to be under weight as it isn't something they can choose to do. But I'd like to see matchmaker try to keep the tonnage differences within 5 tons for random public drops.

Edited by Koniving, 04 May 2014 - 11:19 AM.






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