5 replies to this topic

[Javenri]

I have been wondering about the combination of Artemis gudiance system and Short Range missiles. I am puzzled by the fact that Artemis actually affects SRM. I know it is in the lore, but it doesn't seem right. Artemis is a guidance system based on an infrared laser designator (http://www.sarna.net.../Artemis_IV_FCS) and SRM are unguided missiles (directly fired, no lock on required). Is there any plausible reason why they should benefit from Artemis (apart balancing or lore issues)?

Edited by Javenri, 25 November 2014 - 10:54 PM.

[Danghen Woolf]

In lore both LRMs and SRMs had guidance systems. This led to the development of the semi-guided munitions that were used with TAG systems. In amlost all of the MW games SRM's have been dumbfire weapons more like the MRM's http://www.sarna.net...m_Range_Missile or Rocket Launcers http://www.sarna.net...Rocket_Launcher. One of the things that is different is that in lore you could have an Artemis IV on an LRM launcher but not on an SRM launcher on the same mech.

[Javenri]

So semi-guided would be something that doesn't need lock on but actually follows a target by the help of the designator? That makes some sense, but as you said in MWO games SRM's are dumb fired so the Artemis should be short of ireelevant.

Edited by Javenri, 26 November 2014 - 10:38 PM.

[Nebfer]

Effectively as stated LRMs & SRMS both have built in guidance packages, Artemis is an add on that enhances missile accuracy.

AFAIK standard launchers simply align the launch tubes and give prelaunch target info, once fired the missiles are on their own, having to acquire the target, home in on it till impact all the while fighting hostile ECM, as a result many missiles never make it.

Artemis is at lest per Techmanual a Laser designator that locks on to a target, providing better pre launch info, and once the missiles have been launched provides a data link that allows for mid course updates, allowing for more missiles to find the target (area at lest), they still have to acquire the target themselves and fight hostile ECM. The system provides a ~35% increase in accuracy on successful strikes in the number of munitions that hit.

Streaks is a system that uses a more advanced guidance packages and smarter electronics on the missiles, as well as better target acquisition and locking on the launcher end, effectively the launcher locks on to the target, once it's happy with the lock it sends the pre launch data, also making sure that the missiles are themselves locked on to their target, once done it sends the little ones to go have fun, like Artemis it also sends core correction data, however unlike Artemis, Streaks also include better built in guidance systems and more ECM resistant electronics, as they are already locked on they do not have to acquire the target, so they are free to home on in, their also largely impervious to the built in ECM & GECM systems, but Angel affects them

Semi Guided rounds are an optional guidance package that allows a missile so equipped to use the illumination of a TAG laser, effectively making them Laser guided.

[Javenri]

Nebfer, on 02 December 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Effectively as stated LRMs & SRMS both have built in guidance packages, Artemis is an add on that enhances missile accuracy.

AFAIK standard launchers simply align the launch tubes and give prelaunch target info, once fired the missiles are on their own, having to acquire the target, home in on it till impact all the while fighting hostile ECM, as a result many missiles never make it.

Artemis is at lest per Techmanual a Laser designator that locks on to a target, providing better pre launch info, and once the missiles have been launched provides a data link that allows for mid course updates, allowing for more missiles to find the target (area at lest), they still have to acquire the target themselves and fight hostile ECM. The system provides a ~35% increase in accuracy on successful strikes in the number of munitions that hit.

Streaks is a system that uses a more advanced guidance packages and smarter electronics on the missiles, as well as better target acquisition and locking on the launcher end, effectively the launcher locks on to the target, once it's happy with the lock it sends the pre launch data, also making sure that the missiles are themselves locked on to their target, once done it sends the little ones to go have fun, like Artemis it also sends core correction data, however unlike Artemis, Streaks also include better built in guidance systems and more ECM resistant electronics, as they are already locked on they do not have to acquire the target, so they are free to home on in, their also largely impervious to the built in ECM & GECM systems, but Angel affects them

Semi Guided rounds are an optional guidance package that allows a missile so equipped to use the illumination of a TAG laser, effectively making them Laser guided.

I was about to argue that unguided munition can't be affected by any guiding system after leaving the tube, but then I remembered reading some years ago that some unguided munition can be slightly guided during the final path to the target (I think the article was about mortar shells guided by laser TAG). This was done by slightly turning some tail fins making it more accurate. It didn't actually follow a target but it did increase the accuracy. If this technology exists today, I think it is safe to amuse that it can be somewhat improved in 3050

[Nebfer]

Javenri, on 05 December 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

I was about to argue that unguided munition can't be affected by any guiding system after leaving the tube, but then I remembered reading some years ago that some unguided munition can be slightly guided during the final path to the target (I think the article was about mortar shells guided by laser TAG). This was done by slightly turning some tail fins making it more accurate. It didn't actually follow a target but it did increase the accuracy. If this technology exists today, I think it is safe to amuse that it can be somewhat improved in 3050

Spin stabilization is indeed a thing and is quite often used in Rocket "artillery". I would suspect that this is used on Rockets and MRMs, in addition to having the launcher actually being able to aim the rounds independently of the mechs own orientation at lest in some fashion, this is referenced with the "Apollo" FCS for the MRM.
Though It also can be used with guided rounds to provide directional stability as well, this however is not required.

However Only MRMs and Rockets are unguided, well and the Short lived Dead Fire rounds (replaced by MRMs).

Battletech uses the following guidance packages
---Unguided--- No on board guidance system what so ever,
Rockets
MRMs (Replaced Dead Fire rounds, which where LRM or SRMs with guidance packages removed for larger warheads)

---"Basic" Guided---
As I mentioned before, launcher provides limited info at launch, leaving the missile to largely acquire and home in on the target by it self, type of guidance is unknown, optical, IR or even a simple radar system is a possibility
-LRM
-SRM
-ATM
-Thunderbolt

---"Advanced" Guided---
Artemis IV
Artemis V
Streak
Heat Seeking
Semi Guided
Follow the Leader
Swarm
Improved Swarm
Radiation Homing
Listen kill
NARC
I-NARC

Basically in addition to what I mentioned already I would assume that a Standard launcher only gets a "Soft" lock, in so much that it sees the target and is getting info on it but is not a solid lock, it sends the missiles in the general direction of the target, the missiles them selves have a terminal homing ability. As for the Terminal guidance I would assume that a optical system is a likely candidate.

Artemis gets a hard(er) lock on the target, the missiles still only have the terminal acquire and homing, though they are helped in this by in flight course corrections.

Streaks, gets a Hard lock with both the launcher and missiles making sure with a high degree of confidence that they are locked on the the real target before the missiles are fired.

Heat Seeking, Missiles are given a heat seeker, the hotter the target the better it homes, though how the rules work would seem to indicate that mechs that are not producing any heat are almost invisible to them. indicating that A; B-tech IR sensors suck, B; their ECM is that good, C; that mechs are surprisingly stealthy or D; perhaps a bit of all of the above...

Semi Guided, the missile is given a laser seeker, allowing it to home off the TAG laser, which per Era report 2750 is not a simple laser system. As a unit can detect that laser and try to fool the incoming round(s) by making copys of the laser signature that it's homing in on, and said system will try to match the attempts of the designator to switch frequency's.

Follow the Leader, is more or less a slightly upgraded standard round(s) that adds a data linking system, once the flight of missiles detects that a missile has a lock on the rest try to home in on that missile, unfortunately the missiles can still follow a false target, if the leader is following a false target the rest are likely to as well...

Swarm; rounds also are slightly improved regular rounds that add the ability that if a missile missed the target or fails to find it, it can try to acquire a new one though the basic system dose not differentiate friend from foe, the improved system adds a basic IFF system, though both systems are susceptible to ECM (Swarm functions are regular missiles, while Improved Swarm functions as regular swarm).

Listen kill, rounds swap out the basic guidance for a EM homing system, that homed in on the electronics of the targeting and tracking suits of combat units, this was introduced in the war of 3039, but by 3040 it was effectively countered by a simple upgrade that most had by 3050.

Radiation Homing, or ARAD rounds also home in on EM systems, but unlike Listen kill rounds that it superseded, it's a bit more focused, it only homes in on the advanced electronic gear (like BAP or GECM), however they are not very effective on units that do not mount said systems.

NARC rounds are simple systems that home in on a wide spectrum beacon launched by the NARC launcher, Many a player prefer NARC over Artemis, due to the fact that any launcher can fire NARC homing rounds, but only launchers equipped with Artemis can benefit from Artemis.