58 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

Good summary.
As one of the so called fans - i have to admit that I have made several "breaks" the first happened during the ongoing PPC Meta in March and did last till July 2013. And yes i did hibernate in the forums....because i know that ignoring MWO would mean leaving. So I bought the Overlord - and shortly after the Saber Package - after they introduced Ghost Heat and Gauss Charge (during the first weeks - it was a rich game play - but shortly after - and the disappointing launch event and hardly any ETA for the CW - i went back to hibernation...till March....

That gives me a really interesting perspective about MWO... i have mastered almost all Mechs during the Closed Beta - several times. I also have a good idea - about the enrichments of long gone features - and i still know about the time when i hit the Launch button and only seconds later i found my self in my Mech.
The time where i raged against the vocal majority in this forum to buff the PPC or to nerf the Gauss....
The time where it was possible to command with chat function alone a pure PUG Game.

But for all that drawbacks - MWO is still a basically good game. If you are able to see behind Meta and Loadouts the very principles of discipline and tactics work in your favor - while i liked 8vs8 as a Solo Dropper much more - the 12 on 12 que is much better to reduce the efficiency of premades... often i there is the problem that two preamades in the same team is a good formula for defeat - if they don't talk to each other.

The current Meta - double AC 5 and double PPC on a JumpCapable chassis is not imbalanced - if you take them alone:
the JumpJets are bad
the double AC 5 and double PPC on a not jump capable chassis - is not a good weapon load. Double Gauss will win at long range - double AC 20 will kill you at short range.
So in Random Public Matches there is hardly a good reason to use Meta Builds.

[Aresye]

Quote

But for all that drawbacks - MWO is still a basically good game.

So often do we find ourselves focusing on the negatives (like in my earlier post) that we forget about the positives.

I DO enjoy MWO, and I am very thankful that there was a company willing to take up the challenge. The graphics are very nice, the animation is smooth, and if I gotta give PGI props on one thing they excelled at, it's the immersion factor. I don't think there's been any other MW game that's truly made it feel like you're in a gigantic war machine than MWO, so in that aspect, they completely nailed it.

On the other hand, what makes things so frustrating is seeing how much potential is overlooked by the developers.

There's such a phenomenal base when it comes to the eye candy in the game, but very little meaningful gameplay.

[arkani]

SharpTooth Steiner, on 05 May 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

That wasn't tldr lol

They have so little to do, just to cover their asses, just a little bs map to say there. We did it. Thats the community warfare we promised. Unfortunatly judging from the slideshow at launch, they are going to do just that. Release some garbage JUST to cover their ass and say WE DID IT!

Now why sharptooth, why would it take so long to make if they are just releasing a minimumly viable CW map to meet their legal obligations?

BEAUSE THEY HAVE ONE MORE PACKAGE TO SELL! THAT IS WHY IT IS COMING AFTER CLAN INVASION!

If they show us their hand right now, show us how crappy CW will actually be. Show us that they are just creating some dumb map with a few dumbass bonuses at the end of the match... NO ONE WILL BUY NO $500 DOLLAR CLAN MECH PACKAGES!

Just wait. After that last clan pack is delivered, CW will come out the doors 90 days later. Then a year later. The servers go dark and shut down.

This is my final prophecy.

Youve been warned.

Now enjoy your %500 dollar gold skin mech you suckers.

Still laughing out loud 3 years laeter.... bye for now

The writing is on the wall.

[Doakes]

Well said Aresye....they absolutely dominated the modernization of the mechs, the feel of being in the cockpit, etc. I stated in OP and will reiterate that there are many things I do love. I want to make this game what it could be....its niche and always will be. That is the whole reason I support with my wallet. I can't code, I can't mod, but i certainly can provide my financial backing; however statistically small it may be. I just feel that we are not being respected for supporting this from the beginning or even those who support it now.

Again I ask...what can WE do to make it better? It is so easy to complain but let us get some comprehensive solutions running. this thread is for the most part very respectful so far and I hope to keep it that way. I would love to see it evolve to something that truly helps.

[Karl Streiger]

Doakes, on 06 May 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

I just feel that we are not being respected for supporting this from the beginning or even those who support it now.

Well you got may can get a Coffee Cup... when you order a clan package.
I'm locked with MWO - and i will stay till the last server goes off line - reason is simple - i have payed much money (not as much as for BattleTech as a whole - MWO is still cheaper as the price i have payed for the miniatures).

The best you can do is to stay constructive and fair. There are several posters in the void that will cry BS - no matter what decision PGI or IPG will do. Good example the buggy MM - at 29.April - it would have been wrong not to patch it into the game - as it is wrong to patch a buggy MM.

What can you do as veteran - don't stomp. There are several units that used the 12er premade drops vs random player for C-Bill farming. This is really really bad morale - and I'm lucky not to serve in such a unit.
I also try to find "newbies" in spectator mode and ask them in chat after the game if i can help them - some are afraid of using Voip - but that is no problem - not when you are a veteran. You can guide this newb - and assist him.
There are so many ways you can improve a new players experience.

[Lyoto Machida]

Kyle Wright, on 05 May 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

What makes it worse, is how worthless most of the chassis are. Aside form the Shadow Hawk, the Battlemaster, the majority of thunderbolts, and griffin have now been turned into 2nd line mechs with lrms that ill rarely use. Wolverine I am still trying to find a purpose for, and the Locust...umm yeah... I use its blood to grease my actuators on my Atlas, Ilya, and Wang lol

I know I sure wouldn't want blood on my Wang...

[Doakes]

Karl: Definitely agree that we need to take care of the new guys. I get on ComStar sometimes but last few months have been strictly PUG in order to keep as close to the new guy experience as possible.

Off topic - yes it is definitely cheaper and you make me want to go to the storage building outside....i remember buying multiples of the SAME mini for $10-$15 just so I could have different paint schemes.....good times sir, good times. I was close to buying the Clan package and it will break my hoped for streak of having them all but I cannot at this point. I WANT to.....but I want to know what in the world is going on with this stuff more.

Keeping it constructive...perhaps we should advertise ComStar like I said earlier. Maybe even tell guys that they dont need mics....just need to be able to hear directions and info. What do you think?

Hey what about being able to group during a match? That way PUGs can develop a temporary team with guys they see doing well/enjoy playing with. Even without speaking, general tactics and loyalty develop quickly if able to drop together. Adding mid match would greatly increase this don't you think?

Edited by Doakes, 06 May 2014 - 01:14 AM.

[Rasc4l]

Doakes, on 05 May 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Community Warfare: This is BY FAR my biggest complaint for so many reasons. I certainly understand delays. I am willing to
...
to fully understand what goes on under the hood. What I find completely unacceptable is being outright lied to or misled in
...
If things were this bad, why did we not know until a few weeks ago? We find out that IGP had forced reallocation of PGI assets

Let me first congratulate you for being able to utter the L-word in your post and at the same time being apparently constructive enough to not get heavily moderated/banned. It also helps that PGI dropped their "gestapo crap" attitude, like Neo might say. :P

Doakes, on 05 May 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

I bought the Phoenix Package solely to benefit from the faction LP gains. Launch event and the above referenced article stated CW should be here by now. It's not. It's not even really delayed because they have not even actually started on it as

Same here.

Doakes, on 05 May 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Communication:Communication is limited, often vague, and sometimes incredibly disrespectful to the core community. Look at what ###, ###, and many other companies do. ### has CSM, quarterly reports, a great section on F&I's and constant dev

Yes their communication failures are great but I find them making great strides in the area (go Karl!). Well all except the top floor of the twittery tower, who I guess were traumatized enough by death threats or something that they have basically washed their hands off the community.

Hehe, just got off saying they've improved on their censorship and then I get ####. Aww well, baby steps. "Oh but it's different, because rules of advert..." - oh come on, get real. :)

Doakes, on 05 May 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Gameplay: While I do have criticisms, I honestly do not feel that I am technically qualified to understand the inner workings of the coding stuff. I would like to say that knockdown still hasn't been fixed, netcode is ok I guess, and SRM's still aren't fixed (hopefully tomorrow). Again, I don't know enough here to properly criticize so I will hold back, but these things should have been fixed long ago. What I do know is that we should have had integrated voice comms long ago and still no word on this? Any official reason why?

Yes, SRMs should've been fixed long time ago but just the fact that it's finally happening now is making me thrilled! Regarding gameplay in general, I am not blessed with your humility and actually think I know certain things better than PGI. ;) Well not really I don't, it's just that they've left such completely unfinished things like ECM in the game that even a moron like me can come up with a reasonable suggestions to improve things (see signature).

Doakes, on 05 May 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Meta: Many of us would love to play stock mechs only, many would love to play <insert variable> only. My OPINION is basically this.....the game is at such a state that not many people play it. New guys leave, old vets hibernate, etc. If they implemented this then the queue times would be forever long due to the exclusive options. Private matches are a step in the right direction I suppose. I honestly do not know how to fix the meta as all games suffer from it. I would love to hear your opinions on the matter.

Have you tried the launch module? It's great! It allows the community to do so much stuff among themselves. We (www.aseveljet.net) just had our first scrimmage vs. Black Spikes yesterday. Boy did we get our asses handed to us but damn it was fun!

And LM also allows things like this to happen very easily:
http://mwomercs.com/...k-mech-mondays/

[Doakes]

Rasc4l, on 06 May 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

Let me first congratulate you for being able to utter the L-word in your post and at the same time being apparently constructive enough to not get heavily moderated/banned. It also helps that PGI dropped their "gestapo crap" attitude, like Neo might say.



Same here.


Yes their communication failures are great but I find them making great strides in the area (go Karl!). Well all except the top floor of the twittery tower, who I guess were traumatized enough by death threats or something that they have basically washed their hands off the community.

Hehe, just got off saying they've improved on their censorship and then I get ####. Aww well, baby steps. "Oh but it's different, because rules of advert..." - oh come on, get real.



Yes, SRMs should've been fixed long time ago but just the fact that it's finally happening now is making me thrilled! Regarding gameplay in general, I am not blessed with your humility and actually think I know certain things better than PGI. Well not really I don't, it's just that they've left such completely unfinished things like ECM in the game that even a moron like me can come up with a reasonable suggestions to improve things (see signature).




Have you tried the launch module? It's great! It allows the community to do so much stuff among themselves. We (www.aseveljet.net) just had our first scrimmage vs. Black Spikes yesterday. Boy did we get our asses handed to us but damn it was fun!

And LM also allows things like this to happen very easily:
http://mwomercs.com/...k-mech-mondays/

The ### was my doing completely...I make every attempt to see things from their perspective. I understand their rules. They actually kept it up, but I wanted Niko especially to know that I am making every effort possible.

It took my ignorant self a few minutes to realize what the L-word is. That is my opinion. I came to that conclusion from a logical perspective using the information supplied to me by PGI/IGP. I would be more than happy to redact that statement if they can provide evidence that there was no intention prior to 30 September 2013 to reallocate resources and then properly explain why it took so long to inform us....especially given there is an extremely high probability that IGP forced PGI to do this against their suggestions.

I totally agree the communication failure is from the top....not the guys that have boots on the ground.

As far as LM goes......I am excited and worried. Karl made a good point that we need to mentor and assist new guys. While I am in no way diminishing the positives of the LM; don't we need to make sure not to get isolated from the new guys? I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, just playing devils advocate for a minute.

[Rasc4l]

Doakes, on 06 May 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

The ### was my doing completely...I make every attempt to see things from their perspective. I understand their rules. They actually kept it up, but I wanted Niko especially to know that I am making every effort possible.

Ok.

Doakes, on 06 May 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

It took my ignorant self a few minutes to realize what the L-word is. That is my opinion. I came to that conclusion from a logical perspective using the information supplied to me by PGI/IGP. I would be more than happy to redact that statement if they can provide evidence that there was no intention prior to 30 September 2013 to reallocate resources and then properly explain

Hehe, I think it is entirely fair to say the community was lied to. Well shit happens and whatever, I'm certainly not getting hung up on the past and am willing to let things slide. PGI just has to deliver and re-condition me into trusting them. What I find a bit amazing is the level of deniel exhibited by top level of PGI (our position at the time etc. :) and even people on these forums have gone to other games forums and with a straight face redefined what the word lying means in order to make the universe look like PGI never lied.

Aw well, we all have our coping mechanisms when faced with stress stimulus. If denial works for you, then GG.

Doakes, on 06 May 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

why it took so long to inform us....especially given there is an extremely high probability that IGP forced PGI to do this against their suggestions.

I'm not sure that we have any proper sources for information, that could be used to assess probabilities on the internal happenings between PGI and IGP. I.e. it's all just speculation.

Doakes, on 06 May 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

As far as LM goes......I am excited and worried. Karl made a good point that we need to mentor and assist new guys. While I am in no way diminishing the positives of the LM; don't we need to make sure not to get isolated from the new guys? I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, just playing devils advocate for a minute.

I am quite confident Launch Module will be a big boost to the community in general. As mentioned, it allows people to do their own stuff. Regarding the possible isolation of n00bs i.e. the fear that LM is just an elitist tool: it is completely in PGI's hands to make the LM reality what they want.

- If they want LM to be a tool for only the competitive scene, they will keep the current settings where it takes 2 people with premium time to make any match.

- If they want LM to be a tool for everyone, they will make it so that it will be possible to launch a private 1 vs. 1 or 2 vs. 2 match with only 1 account. This would help people to introduce the game to their n00b friends. "Let's go make a private duel, I have premium time, I'll show you around the map and then kick your ass". If PGI's argument that putting up underpopulated games take much resources, they could put a timelimit of 5 minutes to these little duels of up to 4 players.

[Doakes]

Good points on the LM. All of which I agree. Key thing here is that it REQUIRES someone with premium time. That could be a bottleneck to new groups that would potentially develop their own identities. Perhaps they could implement a limited practice area for F2P teams? Just a thought.

That is just something off the top of my head to get the creative thoughts going. It may not be economically feasible due to servers being used to host, but I can't see it being much different than each of these new guys being in the training areas separately.

The speculation comment I agree with...I am just speculating. However, given the publisher/dev business model, it is statistically more likely that what happened was called for from IGP. I most certainly welcome official comments on the matter and will happily redact any false speculation upon receiving a statement.

Edited by Doakes, 06 May 2014 - 02:02 AM.

[Zolaz]

I waiting for PGI to try and convince me that they arent a bunch of liars and thieves.

[Karl Streiger]

Zolaz, on 06 May 2014 - 04:23 AM, said:

I waiting for PGI to try and convince me that they arent a bunch of liars and thieves.

Well what you describe sound like a every salesman in the world.
They want your money - if or if you don't feel like this is up to you. (I always have that feeling when I have to go to a garage and the auto mechanic tells me what he has to do)

[Zolaz]

ssm, on 06 May 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

It would be extremely hilarious, because playerbase is so divided on certain issues (what should replace ghost heat as balancing tool of same weapon alphas, for example) that they could make some extremely fun drawing of not simply island, but whole archipelago of tiny angry islands.

No, what is hilarious is the wheel being reinvented over and over again by PGI. Well, maybe not hilarious as it is a comedic tragedy. A lot of band-**** and patchwork solutions were implemented because PGI cant program its way out of a wet paper bag.

Edit: lol it filtered out the back end of band-aid.

Edited by Zolaz, 06 May 2014 - 05:21 AM.

[ssm]

Zolaz, on 06 May 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

No, what is hilarious is the wheel being reinvented over and over again by PGI. Well, maybe not hilarious as it is a comedic tragedy. A lot of band **** and patchwork solutions were implemented because PGI cant program its way out of a wet paper bag.

Well, If the "wheel" you're referring to is TT/other MW games, they've had their own share of imbalances/weird designs/patchwork solutions.

And we always should consider one, base hipothesis - that because of core MW game features (TT-derived weapons, customisation, mechs being sets of different destructible components, technical limitations in term of stability and performance in online environment, among others) we're dealing with so many variables (and too many of them entirely beyond devs control) that MW game is simply impossible to properly balance.

And every proposed "ultimate solution" and "simple xml edititng" will create multiple, different problems and imbalances in other, at first glance unrelated, areas.

Edited by ssm, 06 May 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

ssm, on 06 May 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

And every proposed "ultimate solution" and "simple xml edititng" will create multiple, different problems and imbalances in other, at first glance unrelated, areas.

QFT

[Rasc4l]

ssm, on 06 May 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

And every proposed "ultimate solution" and "simple xml edititng" will create multiple, different problems and imbalances in other, at first glance unrelated, areas.

Something very simple might get us far. Doubling PPC charging time or similar small to tip the scale enough to make them possibly more balanced and lessen the pinpoint-meta. Public test server should be used for testing things like this.

EDIT: And to make something similar to autocannons, maybe their shots could also be divided into smaller rounds like has been said about clan autocannons. AC10: 2x5p damage, AC5: 5x1p damage AC2: 1x2p damage.

Edited by Rasc4l, 06 May 2014 - 05:48 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Rasc4l, on 06 May 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

Something very simple might get us far. Doubling PPC charging time or similar small to tip the scale enough to make them possibly more balanced and lessen the pinpoint-meta. Public test server should be used for testing things like this.

Thats a perfect example - why things are ugly.
My guess what will happen if you double the charge time

So PopTarter or sniper will show every 8 seconds...maybe they will even over exceed ghost heat penalty - because they have 8-10seconds for cool down.

The mid range trooper / allrounder Mechs (SHD-2K, Grand Dragon (Flame), Wolverine ...Thunderbolt) will be at the reciving end. with virtually halved firepower.

If you increase the damage to accumulate the reduced RoF you only increase the usage as a sniper weapon.

Alternative could be to reduce the damage and increase the RoF (but currently i don't have thought about it - so i can't tell about the negative side effects)

[Egomane]

I removed the "form" posts.

Any post that is calling for developers to get fired is not acceptable. It's a form of harrasment.

As one of the posts mentioned that this should be send to support in mass and/or regularly...
No, that is also not acceptable. That is also not feedback but harrasment. You are not doing yourself a favor with it!

Edited by Egomane, 06 May 2014 - 06:06 AM.

[Tombstoner]

Karl Streiger, on 06 May 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

Thats a perfect example - why things are ugly.
My guess what will happen if you double the charge time

So PopTarter or sniper will show every 8 seconds...maybe they will even over exceed ghost heat penalty - because they have 8-10seconds for cool down.

The mid range trooper / allrounder Mechs (SHD-2K, Grand Dragon (Flame), Wolverine ...Thunderbolt) will be at the reciving end. with virtually halved firepower.

If you increase the damage to accumulate the reduced RoF you only increase the usage as a sniper weapon.

Alternative could be to reduce the damage and increase the RoF (but currently i don't have thought about it - so i can't tell about the negative side effects)

all excellent reasons showing the interactions between currently implemented factors. its also exactly why the game needs a new factor called dynamic precision where player choices effect accuracy. thus creating a player controlled COF.