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Building A Real Blackjack


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#1 Denolven

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 03:52 PM

Hello fellow robot nerds :D

I'm trying to figure out what is needed to actually build a real Blackjack. Target time is the 2070s, and the whole thing is purely hypothetical of course. What I need is the communities knowledge on BT lore and corresponding real world technology that is available already or likely to be in 60 years. So if you know BT stuff, feel free to contribute.

Background:
Spoiler


Based on answers, I'll sum up everything here, just in case anyone else wants to use the results. I'll start with a breakdown into modules (divide an conquer strategy). Once we have a module overview, we'll take a closer look to each one. Unfortunately I'm a total noob to the BT lore, so I'll start with what little I know, or rather guess.
The whole build is based on double AC/2 and 2-4 medium lasers


Modules
I'm a total noob here - I mean there are obvious ones like engine and weapons, but honestly I don't know anything about BT background. So from an engineering point of view, what modules is a mech made of?
  • engine
  • skeleton (actuators, "bones", suspension(Gyro I guess?), sizes?)
  • cooling system
  • armor
  • ammo storage, ammo transportation
  • cockpit/main computer (so it can handle automated routines like aim assist, patrol, friend/foe recognition and other simple trasks)
  • weapons and weapon mounts (cooling, reloading, recoil compensation, aiming and sensors)
Engine:


Spoiler


Skeleton:
Spoiler


Cooling system:
???


Armor:
???

Ammo storage and transportation:
???


Weaponry:

Spoiler


Cockpit:
Spoiler



Craving for the knowledge/ideas of you BT gurus B)
Hm, I'll probably need a few spider drones for internal repairs...

Edited by Denolven, 28 March 2014 - 06:49 AM.


#2 Strum Wealh

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 05:42 PM

How close to BT do you want it to be?
For example, does the power source necessarily need to be fusion-based, or will a normal internal combustion engine be sufficient?

If you want realistic mecha, you'd probably do well to look at projects like the Kuratas. :D


#3 101011

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:00 PM

Well, the problem with BT is that most of the required technology is fictional. There's a category on Sarna called technology; it should be helpful. (I'd link it, but MWO hates IE)

#4 Pacifist

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:15 PM

First off artificial muscles are becoming cheaper so that's good. http://arstechnica.c...h-fishing-line/

2nd as far as manufacture you'll be looking at Krupp who've proven they can handle high end jobs. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Bagger_288

Edited by DarwinsDisciple, 15 March 2014 - 07:34 PM.


#5 Strum Wealh

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:04 PM

View Post101011, on 15 March 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

Well, the problem with BT is that most of the required technology is fictional. There's a category on Sarna called technology; it should be helpful. (I'd link it, but MWO hates IE)

Actually, the basics behind most of the tech does exist in reality... Give these & some other key technologies a few centuries to mature, and the BattleMech is good to go... :D

#6 9erRed

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:16 PM

Greetings all,

Your understanding of the "link" between the pilot and the Mech is incorrect. The Pilot does not "become the Mech", this is a falsehood that has been festering for some years from the public not understanding the actual background Tech's of this BattleTech Universe.

- The BattleMech is not a large "strap-on" suit that follows the pilots movements. (like seen in "Pacific Rim")
- The Mech drives itself in the direction the Pilot instructs it to go, taking directions from the cockpit controls, and the Pilots feedback, with the use of the DI network. (Digital Interpretation Computer)

Ref:
1. While the neurohelmet can help translate the MechWarriors basic intentions to the BattleMech and give a small amount of feedback to the MechWarrior, they aren't capable of real-time "mind reading" that would be necessary in order to directly control a BattleMechs movements, nor can they input enough data to a MechWarrior to replace the cockpit information systems.
The first Star League could not make helmets capable of this and neither can the Clans.

2. The neurohelmet's main job is to enable the MechWarrior to control the balance of the BattleMech. The MechWarrior uses the neurohelmet to tell a 'Mech when and in what direction it should be off balance, and also to help the 'Mech regain its bearings when its balance systems cannot compensate enough for the 'Mechs conditions. The neurohelmet is also used as a part of the security system of a 'Mech.

3. ** Ref on Movement: **
Moving is yet another task that the BattleMech does a lot of work at. Though a BattleMech may have proportionately large feet, it still must choose every footstep with care in order to compensate for outside forces or in anticipation of environmental features. Again, it is the DI that handles this, via a 'Mechs many sensors. Hand actuators are also tools that the BattleMech will handle via the DI network, especially more modern 'Mechs, which are programmed with very capable and complex actuator routines. BattleMechs will actually move their limbs and torso to avoid collisions. The agile movements of a light BattleMech threading its way through a forest is not only the result of a talented MechWarrior, but the 'Mechs own DI computer avoiding the trees.
However, BattleMechs do sometimes simply crash their way through forests, clip buildings, or trip down into ravines. This is because BattleMechs are programmed to obey their pilots, regardless of the "common sense" programmed into the 'Mech. For instance, a 'Mech will swing its arms through the side of a building if that is what's required to bring weapons to bear on a target. BattleMechs will give collision warnings, but they don't override their pilots. Ironically, this is one of the reasons why it takes a long time to train good MechWarriors. MechWarriors actually have to learn how to think for their 'Mech and exploit the machine's "intelligence" in order to get the results they want.

4. When a MechWarrior pushes the throttle forward, it is the DI that controls the engine power, the gyro, and coordinates the actuators.

Just clearing that bit if information up. So the most difficult object in having a functional Mech will be the "sensor" system that must have all the capabilities of nearly full autonomous movement. The Idea of the machine "Knowing" where it's limbs and body are in relation to the environment. The understanding of what is around the Mech and how it needs to move in order to "obey" what the pilot wants.
I haven't mentioned the "Lore" about the BattleMech being able to understand that there are "friendly" elements moving around it's feet or legs and operate safely to not injure/step-on these elements. (unless directed to by the Pilot) The Mech from this BattleTech universe is all about sensors and many redundant systems or methods to "maintain" info.

- Funny about that "Google" company buying up 10 robotic and sensors companies in the last year?
(including "Boston Dynamics" who do quite a bit of DARPA's research.)

Just saying,
9erRed

#7 Denolven

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:55 AM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 15 March 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

How close to BT do you want it to be?
For example, does the power source necessarily need to be fusion-based, or will a normal internal combustion engine be sufficient?

It doesn't need to be that close, but it needs to work. Engine for example needs to produce enough energy to fire lasers, which are extremely inefficient I was told, so a fusion reactor is probably not that far off.
It's more like "ok it's 2075 and we have lots of cool toys - let's see if we can make a working Blackjack out of that"

View PostDarwinsDisciple, on 15 March 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

First off artificial muscles are becoming cheaper so that's good. http://arstechnica.c...h-fishing-line/

2nd as far as manufacture you'll be looking at Krupp who've proven they can handle high end jobs. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Bagger_288

Whoa that's great - in fact now that you mention it, artificial muscles can be bought as implants in Shadowrun, so there's no reason why I can't use that at a bigger scale. Ok, muscles are not a problem to get, check.
As for heavy machinery, I know there is Saeder-Krupp. But it will be far too expensive, I'll need to build it myself. Also as a techie I WANT to build it myself B)
Wouldn't hurt to look into some of their details though, but I'm not sure how much that would piss them off. You don't want to mess with a Dragon in Shadowrun, and SK is THE largest corporation, led by the Great Dragon Lofwyr...
(in case you didn't guess already: magic came back in Shadowrun, together with some mutations and magical creatures, the Dragons being the most powerfull of them. Lofwyr is one of the top notch dragons. He basically elected himself into the leading position of SK and made it the largest triple A corporation worldwide.)

View Post9erRed, on 15 March 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Your understanding of the "link" between the pilot and the Mech is incorrect. The Pilot does not "become the Mech", this is a falsehood that has been festering for some years from the public not understanding the actual background Tech's of this BattleTech Universe.

Yeah I know, I mean it can be seen in the game that a Mech is controlled manually, so I never thought anything else.
But in Shadowrun, you would be stupid to do it that way, because the brain-computer-interfaces have advanced so far that you can really become the machine. In fact, if you remove the security filters that block bio feedback, you can actually die when the machine gets damaged (the filters can be removed to increase performance). Also while being in a machine body, you are not in your real body, so you need to make sure that one is safe because someone could stand right next to it with a gun on your head and you wouldn't notice.
But it can still be "remote controlled" of course. That's when you stay in your own body and tell the machine what to do. Or even manually, like in the game where you use the machine's input devices instead of a network interface. And yes, a large part of the movement details needs to be done by AI. But that's common stuff in 2075, easy to get.

I updated the first entry. Thanks for your input so far :D
open points:
  • engine: check conventional options, check status on fusion engines in 2075
  • skeleton: mech stabilization (gyro details) and part sizes
  • cooling: everything
  • ammo: everything
  • weapons: cooling and ammo usage (I'll probably reduce rate of fire to about 150-200 rounds per minute and increase calliber to 50mm, using single fire / burst / full auto modes just like common assault rifles nowadays)


#8 Denolven

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:16 AM

Wait a second, is there any magic to that "Gyro" in BT, or is it just a competent computer managing all limbs together according to sensor input? Because if it's the latter one, that problem is basically solved (Software, time consuming if I do it myself, but easy to get).

Edited by Denolven, 16 March 2014 - 08:25 AM.


#9 Skylarr

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:29 PM

View PostDenolven, on 16 March 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Wait a second, is there any magic to that "Gyro" in BT, or is it just a competent computer managing all limbs together according to sensor input? Because if it's the latter one, that problem is basically solved (Software, time consuming if I do it myself, but easy to get).



Quote

Gyro

The Gyro is an internal component of all BattleMechs, IndustrialMechs and OmniMechs. The gyro is required to help establish balance and, in times of imbalance, prevent the 'Mech from falling.


Balance
The gyro helps establish center-of-mass equilibrium for the BattleMech in a variety of environments. In normal or high gravity, at least one full set of accelerometers is used. Since accelerometers experience little acceleration in low-G environments, gyros should also possess a traditional gyroscope for direction sense, as piloting in zero-G is not inherently more difficult than in normal or high gravity (see Notes). Neither accelerometers nor rudimentary gyroscopes require extensive space or mass within the BattleMech.

However, gyroscopic orientation-sensing and accelerometer feedback is insufficient to maintain control of the 'Mech. Accelerometers and gyroscopes can not distinguish between intentional and hazardous changes in acceleration or direction, for instance the jerk felt when accelerating from standing to running or the sudden change of mass due to a lost limb, respectively. To distinguish between intent and peril, the MechWarrior's own equilibrium is monitored by a Neurohelmet connected to the gyro's computer. If both the MechWarrior's equilibrium and the balance-sensing mechanisms of the BattleMech agree, the gyro attempts to stabilize the machine.

Angular Acceleration
The BattleMech gyro is able to assist with correcting falls through interactions with massive, rotating wheels, likened to "reaction wheels". Multiple wheels spin continuously within the active 'Mech, with 1 or more stabilizing each axis, x, y, or z. In the event both the gyro and the pilot's neurohelmet interface detect an imbalance, the gyro will attempt to correct the imbalance by gripping one or more wheels, feeding off their immense angular momentum by pulling or pushing against their spin. The resulting torque is often sufficient to stabilize the 'Mech.

However, utilizing angular momentum in this fashion is inherently fraught. In order to counteract undesired gyroscopic effects and allow the 'Mech to operate normally, the constant motion of the gyro's "reaction wheels" requires the gyro is constructed in one of two ways. Gyros can be housed in a freely moving concentric spheres. The sphere(s) itself is immobilized only in moments of imbalance. Alternatively, each axis can be stabilized by multiple wheels spinning in opposite directions. If the net angular momentum about each axis equals 0, the 'Mech will be able to move properly.

While the wheels within the gyro have been likened to Reaction wheels, this analogy is false. Traditional reaction wheels are set in motion in order to fix an orientation on an axis by conservation of angular momentum. In contrast, torquing against the gyro's "reaction wheels" rectifies the 'Mech's imbalance by adding angular acceleration.

Size
Standard gyros were developed for IndustrialMechs and have changed little since the Mackie was introduced. All standard gyros take up ~1/3 of the center torso's space. A one-ton gyro taking one-third of the center torso is sufficient to correct imbalances in a BattleMech massing up to 100 tons and moving up to ~22 kph. However, higher-velocity maneuvers often require more torque, because MechWarriors or pilots will often add to the imbalance with their own maneuvers. The same 100-ton BattleMech would require an equally bulky four-ton gyro to oppose an imbalance at a velocity of ~65 kph (see Notes). Maximum momentum of a 'Mech also determines engine output, so gyros are frequently proportional to the engine-rating.

Gyros utilizing newer construction materials and/or design philosophies became available in the late 3060s. These differ in mass, bulk, and armor of the components, but are equally effective at re-establishing equilibrium. Compact gyros are condensed, but require more mass for corrections due to their shorter moments of inertia. Heavy-duty gyros provide redundancy and provide more protection. Extra-light gyros trade mass for bulk in their "reaction wheels". The improved materials of an XL gyro are much lighter and can manage stresses better than standard gyros, allowing them to increase their moments of inertia and angular velocity in order to provide equal torque.


Notes




Here is an example of a gyro in a Motorcycle. circa 1993
http://youtu.be/xKcWfD6kT1w

Edited by Skylarr, 16 March 2014 - 08:37 PM.


#10 Denolven

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 06:38 AM

Ok guys, quick update:
According to Shadowrun lore, the corporation "Shiawase" patented their fusion reactor design in 2027 and practically took over the energy market. That means fusion reactors have been available for about 5 decades.
However, I couldn't find out whether smaller/mobile versions exist. So I still have to make an own prototype, meaning no matter how I look at it, I'll draw more attention than I want and have to think about protecting both the prototype from being stolen and myself from being "recruited" into being a wageslave.
Although... being a high rank in a corp certainly has advantages, and my character probably doesn't care as long as he is allowed to spend most of his time fiddling around with tech. All I need is a way to make them need me, so they can't just dispose me.

Either way, it means I need to mess with the big guys. Not ideal. The game master can really screw me up if he wants to ^_^

#11 9erRed

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 06:23 PM

Greetings,

Take your design and development in parts and run the "patent" route with each separate item. Don't combine the separate tech as a group until it's secured. Recruit loyal engineers and scientists that truly want the tech "out there", never have any one group working on the complete design. Because "Big Brother" is always watching the top tier of tech personnel to see what they are doing, so it can be either bought, stolen, "disappeared".

Follow a real life success story of secrecy and media black out like the ex NASA Mars scientist that just released the household power station that fits in the palm of your hand. The Bloom Box. (true story and real.)
- And I'm sure that the oil and power companies would have liked to "just have him go away".
- But everything was kept hush, hush till a full public release. And securing 38 big backers like Google, Microsoft, Walmart, Honda, Fed-Ex as just some.

For your story, just assembling the materials needed for testing and prototype construction will attract attention. You'll need quite a bit of private backing and a "Really" secure, private, Lab. [An isolated location would not be a good idea, at all.]

Reference: [Bloom Box]
http://www.bloomener...ll/solid-oxide/
http://www.bloomener...cell-animation/

Just some idea's,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 27 March 2014 - 06:31 PM.


#12 SethAbercromby

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:17 AM

The BT lore about cooling is surprisingly simple. The entire system runs using heat sinks and heat pumps to move heat out of the chassis. The coolant is often simply water because it can absorb a lot of heat and is easy to get by (contrary to popular belief, liquid nitrogen is not optimal for this task because it has a low heat absorption). Because your 'Mech will likely remain on our Earth and if don't plan to get into a desert anytime soon, a solid number external heat sinks should be enough to keep your 'Mech cooled without needing to worry about heat pumps. The internal Heat sinks in the engine are a slightly different matter. They use a regenerative cooling process that can turn waste heat into additional energy. As far as I know, the lore have never gone much into detail which methods are used to accomplish that though.

Armor uses a interesting system that intends the armor to "peel" off in layers as it gets damaged. Each layer is as effective as the one below it, that's why its unlikely for internal components to be damaged before the full armor has been removed. I don't think that technology has been touched on much in recent years so you'll likely have to find a substitute method to create an armor that can take some serious pounding by explosives and ballistic impacts. You might be able to piece something out of spaced and reactive armor plating used in modern tanks.

I'm not 100% sure on that but ammo storage in a 'Mech is often depicted as ammo cases connected to the weapon with an ammunition belt. The most simple method of course is to store the ammo cases in the same component as the weapon. This makes designing the ammunition belt easy and you can design a structural layout that keeps the whole package save more easily. Regarding, caliber, I recommend looking at modern tanks which often use a 120 mm smoothbore gun (the current generation Leopard 2 uses a 120mm L55, since you mentioned your character living in Germany) and you can always expect them to always pick something along the minimum requirement to penetrate a hostile main battle tank of the same generation. You'll likely be able to find a tank gun in you game but getting your hands on it without causing suspicion will be difficult. Also, reloading a Tank gun is a pain so your rate of fire would be impaired. If you want a high rate of fire, you might be able to use a 76mm design with an advanced autoloader. You will have to improvise a lot though.

If you want a good deal of information about the technology behind a BattleMech, I recommend this Essay that serves as a collection of all information gathered around the topic of BattleMech design.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 11 April 2014 - 01:55 AM.


#13 Nathan Foxbane

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:44 PM

On the weapons systems side. A Blackjack uses light autocannons, so something like a Bofors 40 mm would not be out of place. If you need heavy anti-tank work done using 120 mm or possibly larger is ideal. The problem for the 120 is, as mentioned, reloading. I recommend looking into the Type 90 Kyū-maru MBT (not to be confused with the Chinese built Type 90 MBT), AMX Leclerc MBT, and STRV 103 S-Tank for autoloading heavy cannons developed near Germany or using German designed systems. The Type 90 Kyū-maru is a Japanese built MBT uses a licenced Rheinmetall L44 suppled by a Mitsubishi built mechanical bustle (conveyor belt) autoloader. A French tank produced by GIAT mounting a GAIT (Nexter) CN120-26 120mm smoothbore fed an autoloader, the AMX Leclerc is right up there with the Challenger II, M1A1 Abrams, and Leopard II as a state of the art Western MBT. Bofors built the S-Tank which uses a Bofors 105mm L/62 supplied by magazine style autoloader (the gun itself is very similar to the British 105mm L7 and uses the same ammo).

I would have to say that other than the Bofors 40mm which has been around in various incarnations since WWII (and is still a very popular naval and anti-aircraft weapons system) heavier weapons systems will have been replaced with newer and better models by 2075. Light cannons are definitely the way to go. Modern 30mm come in a variety of flavors, from the 30mm Hughes M230 Chain Gun on the AH-64D Apache, to the 30mm GIAT 30M 781 revolver cannon mounted on then Frech variant of the Eurocopter Tiger, the HAP (a Rheinmetall RMK30 recoiless revolver cannon has been proposed for mounting on German UHT variants which currently lack a permanent cannon), to the curious and potent 23mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 Gast gun mounted on the Mil Mi-24VP Hind, to the massive and ever hungry 30mm General Electric GAU/8A Avenger rotary cannon found on the A-10 Thunderbolt II, to the latest incarnation of the classic Bofors 40mm L/70 single barreled autocannon mounted on the CV 90 IFV. All of which have one thing in common, they use a feed system that uses either linked or linkless ammunition carried in a drum or magazine. They may use caseless ammo like the RMK30. Actual feed in BT is either magnetic or mechanical.

Routing the feed can be accomplished by running through a hollow actuator where the shoulder and upper arm actuators have a hollow center and work around feeds and power conduits allowing those parts to be less flexible. The feed links can also be housed outside the actuator in either armored or...

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 12 April 2014 - 11:06 AM.


#14 Ryan Champion

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:06 AM

Here's what your myomer will be, when it's usable. http://www.gizmag.co...romuscle/30217/
That stuff kinda outclasses canon myomer, BTW; it's a good deal more durable, I think(vanadium and it's alloys are used
to make jet engine blades and stuff, VERY tough stuff).

#15 Nathan Foxbane

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 06:57 PM

View PostRyan Champion, on 12 April 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Here's what your myomer will be, when it's usable. http://www.gizmag.co...romuscle/30217/
That stuff kinda outclasses canon myomer, BTW; it's a good deal more durable, I think(vanadium and it's alloys are used
to make jet engine blades and stuff, VERY tough stuff).

Read the article thoroughly. It says it has a great potential application on a miniature scale. 'Mechs are a macro scale heavy military application. Vanadium is also a metal, not a polymer and if it does work on a macro scale would be far more expensive than polymer myomers. The numbers concerning how strong vanadium dioxide is are deceptive by scale. Materials often increase in strength as the scale gets smaller. Boeing would not build a 747 out of balsa wood, but the same material is more than strong enough for Estes to build hand thrown gliders. Note the micro object in the video is only fifty micrometers, 50 x 10−6 m, or 0.00005 meters and requires a microscope to see. A Blackjack is about 10 meters tall or 200,000 times larger than the thrown object and many orders of magnitude greater in mass. Add this to the fact that vanadium dioxide's operating temperature is 67 Celsius forcing the 'Mech to run hot just to move. A preheat sequence is the last thing a combat machine needs for its motive systems.

Scaling eats and spits out a great many current technologies.

At the OP. Cockpit potential: With a rigger cacoon the normal space requirements of a Battlemech cockpit go out the window. The head can remain right where it is, but the armor restrictions are gone and BT build rules no longer apply. Since the character is linked into the system and does not move the cocoon is basically a protomech cockpit using an enhanced imaging system. For the same reason, even with safety buffers the character might get feedback and the 'Mech interfaces with the brain is more directly so there is no need for a gyro. Still a good redundant system, safety buffer against feedback (continue to function even if a pilot is disoriented), and if put on autopilot so the character can change remote locations, necessary. The cacoon can be given an armor value slightly less than the arms. Why stick with the head? Because the cacoon can be set up for something a protomech cockpit cannot, a full-head ejection system. Depending on how rabid a fanboy the character is he actually might insist on a normal cockpit.

More on ammo feed systems. There are currently three modern options for disposal of spent casings, not having them with caseless ammo, external ejection, or a return feed. The last is mostly used in high speed aircraft where ejecting spent shell casings is hazardous. Ammo can be loaded through a special feed system into drums or magazines which never disconnect from the autocannon feed systems except for maintenance. The drums or magazines can be externally loaded and then attached to the feed systems. The latter method is faster, but the former method requires less heavy machinery.
Ammo usage, autocannons are hungry beasts, even at lower rates of fire. 1 ton of 40mm Bofors 3P (programable ammunition) is 400 rounds or 80 seconds of sustained fire from an L/70. Weights per round (shell and casing) for other ammo are proving more difficult to track down.

Weapon systems: Current manufacture autocannons have interesting caliber jumps: 20mm to 23mm to 25mm to 27 mm to 30mm to 35mm to 40mm to 57 mm. The Bofors 57mm is a naval system that masses 14 tons complete with 1000 rounds of ammo. Counterbalancing that monster would be hell. 20mm and 30mm are the most popular with 30mm getting the more exotic variations like caseless ammo, gast gun operation, and recoilless firing. 20 to 40 in increments of 5 are popular vehicle mounts. Aircraft weapons should not be ruled out as space and weight are premiums.

'Mech cooling systems come in three basic varieties: standard, double-strength, and laser.
Standard heat sinks have been discussed, but it should be noted their coolant fluid is lethal (in a "kill me now" painful way) if ingested or splashed into open wounds. The coolant found in Clan built heat sinks is nontoxic. Double heat sinks are enhanced versions of standards, but bulkier and with an enhanced coolant. These are likely hybrid systems combining liquid cooling, heat pumps (thermalelectric cooling), heat pipes, and radiators.
Double-strength heat sinks are functionally identical to double heat sinks, but use corrosive liquid metals move by electromagnetic pumps. Expensive and maintenance intensive systems, but equal in size to clan double heat sinks and are a very defined current technology.
Even more expensive are Clan Jade Falcon developed laser heat sinks which use lasers to cause an anti-Stokes shift in the materials covered in a special pigment it strikes, forcing them to convert thermal energy to light energy. This energy is then directed out of the 'Mech via mirrors and highly polished surfaces. The main advantage of this method is also a disadvantage, it is not affected by environmental conditions, negatively or positively. So taking a dip in a nearby river or pond will not cool the 'Mech down. The other disadvantage of this system is as long as a 'Mech generates heat it emits light. As laser heat sinks dissipate more heat, the 'Mech puts on a more spectacular light show. They dissipate the same amount of heat as double heat sinks and in BT are considered a dead end technology.

Gyros are a substitute for a natural sense of balance as they are self orienting to true vertical as long as they spin. The torque applied by forcing them out of true vertical is the stabilizing mechanism. For Shadowrun they would be used as described in the cockpit section since all changes using the DIN would be actuator based shifts to the center of gravity.

I am at a loss on current materials for skeletal structure.

If Shadowrun is anything like what I have read in a day's worth of research, your character will be drawing a lot of attention. More than a few of which will be smart enough to wait until he is almost finished with the first prototype before they move in. Working for a corp guarantees more than just funding and materials if he can convince them to foot the bill. By succeeding he proves he can make something out of it and they will want more. Success is longevity in a project like this unless the GM is short sighted. Getting the play with the new toy once it is complete is a different problem.

#16 Sennin

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 06:26 AM

http://www.sarna.net...o-Fibrous_Armor

This will help you get a better understanding of armor in the Battletech universe and help you find a similar real world application. I find what you are trying to accomplish very interesting. I would like to hear about the end results.

#17 SethAbercromby

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 06:54 AM

View PostSennin, on 13 April 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...o-Fibrous_Armor

This will help you get a better understanding of armor in the Battletech universe and help you find a similar real world application. I find what you are trying to accomplish very interesting. I would like to hear about the end results.

The description doesn't really explain how the Armor operates in a basic level. http://www.sarna.net...hs_%26_Vehicles will likely be much more informative in that regard and the materials for this kind of application do exist in real life. It'd just be difficult to actually recreate because as far as I am aware, there are no modern armor designs of this nature.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 13 April 2014 - 06:55 AM.


#18 Sennin

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 07:24 AM

View PostSethAbercromby, on 13 April 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

The description doesn't really explain how the Armor operates in a basic level. http://www.sarna.net...hs_%26_Vehicles will likely be much more informative in that regard and the materials for this kind of application do exist in real life. It'd just be difficult to actually recreate because as far as I am aware, there are no modern armor designs of this nature.



You are right but regardless, both links provide more information than he had before. Though I just found this...http://en.wikipedia..../Chobham_armour. It's worth reading all but pay attention to the materials section as well for alternatives if this isn't what you need.

#19 Tylerchu

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 06:41 PM

Have you ever played the xBox 360 game 'Chromehounds'? Amazing game. You can custom make any chassis.
Legpieces are hovercraft, wheeled, standard human-type bipedal (knees face forward), reverse-bipedal (knees are backwards like the Mad Cat), quadruped, and treaded (like a tank).
Cockpits are various shapes. For example, jet-fighter shaped with low profile, low armor, or large and rectangular with buttloads of armor.

They have a 360 degree (infinite) range of twist movement and a very nice range of vertical movement because the cockpit moves independantly of the chassis as well as the guns having their own joints, like modern tanks where there's the turret with the gun, but also the barrel itself moves up and down for more target angles.

Like many have said, having legs is very impractical because of the low speed and difficulties with balance. Tanks can go crapfast and roll through anything, so why put the best of both worlds together?
Tank treads reduce the vertical profile allowing for more stealth as well as faster and more stable movement. The mech-type body allows for a huge assortment of weapons.

Oh, and did I also mention that the chromehounds' weapons are usually fitted in hexagonal cases? They're modular, just like Clan tech!

Another great thing is that the shapes can be outfitted for different missions.

I don't know how to post pictures, but just google image 'chromehounds', 'chromehound garage', and 'chromehound weapon' to see pictures of the 'hounds and the hexagon weapon mounts.

Edited by Tylerchu, 05 May 2014 - 06:39 PM.


#20 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:45 AM

View PostTylerchu, on 29 April 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

..........quadruped like the King Crab............

King Crab Battlemech?
It is not quadruped.... :)





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