669 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Wieland, on 20 May 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Looks like missiles are bugged now. Doing only a fraction of their damage.

Is that true? I've only been in 3 games, but my damage has been crap...even when I thought I'd been landing shots.

[Tesunie]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 May 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Is that true? I've only been in 3 games, but my damage has been crap...even when I thought I'd been landing shots.

In another thread where Bishop Steiner is testing the LRMs in the testing grounds. He's finding hat the closer he is to a target, the less damage LRMs seem to be doing. It took about 300 damage to kill a single commando in the testing grounds. A cicada took 24 volleys of LRM fire, and a full ton of SSRM ammo and was still alive (on testing grounds).

It seems like damage (at least for SSRMs and LRMs) are not applying correctly at the moment. More testing is probably needed.

[Kaldor]

Tesunie, on 20 May 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

Here is where I will disagree with you, but I agree with everything else. Of course, I also want to say that there is a strength to boating I am not denying. However, I find that LRMs can be very effective even when not boated, depending upon how one uses them and has them planed within their builds. I also feel that boating them can increase their strength on the mech, But it opens all sorts of weaknesses that can easily be exploited. Just as with boating almost any other weapon in the game as well.

Any boated weapon emphasizes and works into the strength of the weapon, but also increases the inherent flaws and weaknesses of said weapon. Inside their strength, a boat is very powerful. Caught outside their strength, they can be either ineffective to completely useless.

If I was at home on my home computer, I'd place a nice link to my "Guide to a balanced concept on mech design", where I go far more in depth into the subject of boating and finding that "perfect balance for you". (That balance point will be different from person to person.)

My feedback has also been posted in several places all over the forums. If people want my full opinion on LRMs, their use, and the skills needed to make them really work, you can click on the link in my signature. There should be additional links from there to "LRMs do require skill to use"... (I even have the two mentioned guides linked into a moderator derived "guide grouping" kinda list that should be pinned in either New Player Help forum, or the Guides and Strategy forum...)

We agree to disagree!

I dont consider any config of LRMs with less than 20-30 tubes to be effective. Can you keep someone's head down with a couple of LRM5s? Yeah probably. Will you fool an experienced player with it? Nope. Will you kill anything with 10-15 LRM tubes? Sure, if they are beat up. Can you outright kill someone with 10-15 tubes? Nope. Will you kill bads that run out in the open with LRMs? Yes. Will you kill experienced players that know how to shut down LRM carriers? Once in awhile. Would that same mech running 10-15 LRM tubes, be more effective running 2-3 SRM 4s or 6s? Yes, if SRMs were not Nerf Darts right now.

Ive had this discussion with guys in my unit back when everyone was new, and some people thought mixed loadouts were good. I proved to them, over and over, boating or being a specialist and playing tot he builds strengths is better than trying to be a generalist and doing everything halfass.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

LRMs are so OP that you can slap on a lowly LRM5 with 1t (2t if you're feeling especially vicious) and use it on PUGs. It'll get them to hide behind each other, huddling together for that perfect arty bomb.

Best part is, you can do it with a Commando. As long as they don't actually see you and just get the missile incoming warning, it's a win/win. Once they see you though, they'll all chase the squirrel. With a little bit of pre planning, that can be used to your advantage too.

Hopefully they won't nerf the extremely OP LRM5 Commando. I'd die inside if they did that.

[Tesunie]

Kaldor, on 20 May 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

We agree to disagree!

I dont consider any config of LRMs with less than 20-30 tubes to be effective. Can you keep someone's head down with a couple of LRM5s? Yeah probably. Will you fool an experienced player with it? Nope. Will you kill anything with 10-15 LRM tubes? Sure, if they are beat up. Can you outright kill someone with 10-15 tubes? Nope. Will you kill bads that run out in the open with LRMs? Yes. Will you kill experienced players that know how to shut down LRM carriers? Once in awhile. Would that same mech running 10-15 LRM tubes, be more effective running 2-3 SRM 4s or 6s? Yes, if SRMs were not Nerf Darts right now.

Ive had this discussion with guys in my unit back when everyone was new, and some people thought mixed loadouts were good. I proved to them, over and over, boating or being a specialist and playing tot he builds strengths is better than trying to be a generalist and doing everything halfass.

Thing is, I agree that boating has it's strength. In a planed team, it is a lot easier to use boats, which open up more options. As a PUG player personally, I find that Boating (LRMs in particular) can be a death sentence.

Most of my LRM based builds do still have 15 tubes or more. (If I was home, I'd post up some builds to better demonstrate what I mean. No saved Smurfy links on my lap top.) However, I also bring a good helping for close range weapons to complement my LRMs. I try to find weapons that synergies with other weapon systems (similar in manner to AC5/PPCs right now, just with a lot of different weapons. Like the TAG and LL or AC5 all complement each other well, in range and (for the most part) firing mechanics).

Sometimes, it depends upon how one plays a build, and not always what makes it up. My Stalker has 2x ALRM15s for it's LRM payload, with 8 tons of ammo (I believe). Then I complement that with 2x SSRMs and 4x med lasers with 1 ton SSRM ammo and BAP for a good close range punch. Most people on the forums have plainly told me how bad that build is. Yet, I claim an average damage per match with it of over 600 damage (when I crunch my stats). I (on last count) had a 21 K/D rate on it to, and I don't just sit back and use my LRMs. All within PUG only matches. To most, this build might not work, but the concept is to approach people in a manner that benefits myself, and hinders them. The fine balance I have found with this mech is what plays into it's success, for me at least. (It's been so successful of a design, I've based my Thunderbolts after it, as well as bought a Griffin 3M that mimics it, as well as many other mechs.)

The concept of balance loadouts vs boated loadouts depends upon what one expects to get out of their mechs, how they use it, and what the conditions are in the match. Boated designs have their own strengths over balanced designs, and same goes in reverse as well.

When I refer to balanced designs, I'm actually talking about a design that has a high focus in one area (almost a boat in most cases) with some additional "back up plan" built in. I actually find my Stalker example is strongly focused for close range combat, with a good strength in ranged LRM abilities. It's strongest within 270-180m, but can handle a lot of things that might happen outside that little bubble. If a light mech comes to seek out the LRM mech, they will find me waiting for them. If people think they can stay outside my close combat abilities, they tend to find my LRMs are still enough. (The Stalker design I have is almost an LRM escort design. It's got LRMs to add into the other LRM mechs, but it has enough close range weapons to handle most threats that come towards the group, as well as armor to try and shield my allies.)

As I said, I have a thread where I go far more in depth than this explaining my opinion between boated and balanced builds. (And I don't say boated builds are bad. They have a purpose and a strength I would be foolish to try and deny!)

So, in part, I agree with you. In the other hand, I disagree with you. (Does that even make sense!?)

[Tesunie]

Correction, I had 3 poor matches in my Stalker 3F (I got killed, I was on a no death streak for a while there) and now claim 25 kills to 4 deaths, a 6.25 K/D rate... And now have a 568 average damage per match, which is 6.7 damage per match per ton. I do 340 damage per kill (too bad they don't keep track of assists...). If it matters, it's got a 2.0 W/L rate too... (I tend to use my lasers a lot for pin point damage...)

Edit: New stats only... I could pull out the archived stats for more numbers.

Edited by Tesunie, 20 May 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

The threads need to load way more comments at a time. Nobody is going to read 34 pages, this is just a contentious topic.

This thread is horrible, baseless and doesn't even have an original post to go with it nor has the OP decided to add one.

MODS PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD

[Kaldor]

<--- Boats LRMs in PUG matches!! Brings out my inner troll...

Im just a glutton for punishment, but the shear joy of killing some noob with death by 1000 papercuts and then listening them complain about how OP LRMs are, about how what a bad player I am, etc, in chat makes my evening even after they stand in the open and eat 200+ Artemis LRMs while TAGged.

Tesunie, on 20 May 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

So, in part, I agree with you. In the other hand, I disagree with you. (Does that even make sense!?)

Makes perfect sense, and in all reality were not that far apart on how we are thinking.

[Kjudoon]

Wolfways, on 20 May 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

So you just want to remove indirect fire?

Or hills. That'd be good too. No cover whatsoever. Just charge and button match screaming "MECH SMASH"!!11!!!

[wanderer]

OP gets his wish by accident, all missiles currently bugged:

http://mwomercs.com/...totally-bugged/