37 replies to this topic

[Naduk]

i agree with the make them like machine guns concept
making them short range ppc's is no good
snub nose ppc and its other flavors will have no use if pulse become what they are supposed to be
not that we have that tech yet, but if pulse lasers are mini ppc then we will never see new ppc tech

a pulse laser should be a laser machine gun
at the moment they are close enough, a reduction to their heat is all they really need to be amazing as is

[Kmieciu]

No. You don't fix pinpoint instant damage by adding more pinpoint instant damage.

In my opinion, pulse lasers need shorter cooldown. Medium pulse lasers should produce double the DPS (and HPS) of a normal medium laser, since they are twice as heavy. Large pulse laser should have a shorter cooldown than the ER Large Laser.

That would actually discourage boating, because for most builds 1 LPL or 2x MPL would be enough.

Edited by Kmieciu, 18 May 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[Grimmrog]

Jun Watarase, on 18 May 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

Like i explained in the OP, their short range would prevent them from being uber PPCs.

Why are PPCs OPed? Because they are 540 meters of near instant 10 pt damage and the 90 meter range is largely irrelevant in realtime when you can keep moving to keep enemies at a distance.

A large pulse laser has a range of 300 meters by default. That is in no way good for a 7 ton weapon that is barely better than 2 medium lasers. So what if they can do instant damage at short range....they are in brawling range, just shoot back! They cant pop in and out of cover to do long range alphas like PPCs can.

And like i said, if it turns out to be OP (highly unlikely as they wouldnt hold a candle to PPC/AC boats anyway), tweak the values. Its not hard.

No mech can mount more than 4 MPL or 2 LPL without running into massive overheating problems so you cant boat them (this is with 22 DHS), and their short range means you cant just hide behind cover to cool down since the enemy is going to be in your face.

Really do not know why people are so scared about pulse lasers being useful. They need a niche, and unfortunately "makes you overheat" doesnt qualify.

because people are strange, thats it. rarely do they objectively compare the facts.
even IF Pulse lasers would be instant AND having Large Laser range, compare the LPL with the PPC.

They would weight the same, the PPC needs one more slot.
PPC still has more effective range
PPC can interrupt ECM (which is not to underestimate as ecm counter)
Ok, PPC does have min range and traveltime.

seems like a pretty decent balance where no one steals someone elses show.
Possible Problem: 2x LPL 2x PPC as "sniperbuild" since PPC's do not ghostheat with LPL's

tbh, I would now, after thinking about it a bit more say:
Pulselasers should have more tonnage,

SPL: 1t
MPL: 1,5t
LPL: 7t

Same stats (dmg, range, recycle) as the "normal" laser version except heat, which should be 15% higher than the regular Laser.
They should have 0,2s beamduration

It would make them "nearly" instant and still the LPL would not steal a PPC's show or utility.

[Livewyr]

Reduced significantly, yes. Hitscan FLD... no. Absolutely not.

Light mechs would see a whole new day in dying instantly.

[Bobzilla]

It would definately change the meta, but I think it would reduce TTK by a large margin. I think MPLs are better than MLs, and also think LPLs are really good.

Heat and range are their drawbacks, range I get, tho I feel they could use a reduction in heat. And/or maybe a ton or two shaved off the LPL.

[Livewyr]

Bobzilla, on 20 May 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

It would definately change the meta, but I think it would reduce TTK by a large margin. I think MPLs are better than MLs, and also think LPLs are really good.

Heat and range are their drawbacks, range I get, tho I feel they could use a reduction in heat. And/or maybe a ton or two shaved off the LPL.

I think PL's should be reduced to .3 burn time, and the large/ERLL should have their RoF decreased.

-----------------------------

Can't mess with size/tonnage. Breaks stock mechs.

[Warge]

2 pulses for pulse lasers and reduce burn time: 0.2 for SPL, 0.3 for MPL, 0.4 sec for LPL. imho

[Khobai]

How bout no. The last thing we need are more PPC type weapons.

[Wildstreak]

I am beginning to consider a Dynamic Change to how Pulse and PPC should work but am waiting for the tourney to end before mentioning it.

[Aym]

Either reduce the CD to a VERY short period, like .5 seconds, or reduce the burn time a little at a time, you know, some of that good old "aggressive weapon balance" we've heard so much about.
I'd like it either way, but probably not both, they'd be a bit op at hitscan as well.
Of course I'm of the belief that to enhance the Mechwarrior feel of this game we should be looking at nerfing the good weapons, not buffing the bad ones, time to kill is short enough already.

[Magna Canus]

WonderSparks, on 10 May 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

I, for one, think the pulse lasers are lacking somewhat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in TT weren't they supposed to have some kind of accuracy boost? I'm not 100% sure how (and if) that translates to any of its behavior in MWO. I'm not saying we should make them OP, just maybe a little tweak to help them fit in just a little better. ...Not that any meta or what have you is going to stop me from using them when I have the chance (like my 5xMPL AWS-8T)

The tracking bonus equates well to the lower burn time they have in MWO and makes some form of sense. You get a bonus to hit in a dice game and increase the chance to apply your damage. In MWO you can do "partial damage" during your burn time and the reduction in burn time means that you are more likely to apply more of your damage. A fair approximation IMHO.

[Magna Canus]

Jun Watarase, on 18 May 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

Like i explained in the OP, their short range would prevent them from being uber PPCs. Why are PPCs OPed? Because they are 540 meters of near instant 10 pt damage and the 90 meter range is largely irrelevant in realtime when you can keep moving to keep enemies at a distance. A large pulse laser has a range of 300 meters by default. That is in no way good for a 7 ton weapon that is barely better than 2 medium lasers. So what if they can do instant damage at short range....they are in brawling range, just shoot back! They cant pop in and out of cover to do long range alphas like PPCs can. And like i said, if it turns out to be OP (highly unlikely as they wouldnt hold a candle to PPC/AC boats anyway), tweak the values. Its not hard. No mech can mount more than 4 MPL or 2 LPL without running into massive overheating problems so you cant boat them (this is with 22 DHS), and their short range means you cant just hide behind cover to cool down since the enemy is going to be in your face. Really do not know why people are so scared about pulse lasers being useful. They need a niche, and unfortunately "makes you overheat" doesnt qualify.

It would bring a new Boom-jager alternate on the field at least. Instead of 2xAC20 with ghost heat it would be 2xAC5+6xMPL. Greatly increased speed (XL325 engine) and some extra range (2xAC5), but still all the benefits of 40 FLD. Even better, the boom-jager does 40 every 4 seconds, this one would do 40 every 3 seconds. Granted, the heat would be higher (32 vs 23,52), but you would still get 2x6 MPL + 4xAC5 in, then activate a cool shot and repeat. 120 damage before you have to go take a cold shower. =)

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...02628df23ed2fe4[/smurfy]

[Bigbacon]

i like the current duration time, i think they need a drop in cool down and/or weight. I'm ok leaving the damage and heat where it is.

i currently try to us PL when I can because that faster burn time means I can get more damage where I need it but as a light player only, the weight is problematic.

I also like the noise they make.

[Magna Canus]

Bigbacon, on 23 May 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

i like the current duration time, i think they need a drop in cool down and/or weight. I'm ok leaving the damage and heat where it is.

i currently try to us PL when I can because that faster burn time means I can get more damage where I need it but as a light player only, the weight is problematic.

I also like the noise they make.

Wub wub wub. Love that thing. Had fun trolling with a 4xLPL BLR on chain fire. Cammo for that mech would have been hot rod to blend in with the smoke from the heat sinks.

[GunnyKintaro 01]

agreed i want less burn time... will i get it no.... life is ruff.... lol

[Wildstreak]

Well, I will just come out and say it.
I recently looked up some MW2 data to see how they did things partly because the MW2 Meta was Lasers, Pulse, LRMs and sometimes MGs.
One interesting feature is how Pulse were handled.
MW2 treated every weapon except Missiles as Projectile, even Lasers.
For Pulse Lasers, they designed them to fire 2 projectiles each doing full damage to simulate the hit bonus of TT. Here is the quote from this site that has very comprehensive data on weapons and more.

Quote

Pulse lasers fire lasers in machine-gun like bursts for more damage.

And from this walkthrough.

Quote

PULSE LASERS: Pulse Lasers fire two Laser beams, each one capable of dealing amounts of damage equal to the ER Lasers' ones. However, if the first beam hits, the second won't allocate damage (this represents the to-hit bonus of the board game). They weight and take more space than the ER Lasers, have a faster rite of fire but they can produce great amounts of heat if overused.

Took me some time to understand but this firing method may be better at improving Pulse Lasers and would simulate the hit bonus from TT. I want it.

Edited by Merchant, 23 May 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Warge]

Khobai, on 20 May 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

How bout no. The last thing we need are more PPC type weapons.

PPC has 1 "pulse". I suggest 2. Also pulse lasers have much shorter range.

[Harathan]

Durant Carlyle, on 10 May 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

Lasers should never be FLD weapons.

Why not? Serious question.