60 replies to this topic

[Aim-Bot]

We cant configure Clan Mech Engine,structure,amor and heatsinks.

Who else is pissed about it? Clan mechs will be totally underpowered. When it stays how it is i am out.

Edited by Egomane, 11 May 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[Whaler]

You know nothing of the clans. Just stay a freeborn scum.

Edited by Whaler, 11 May 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

MetalGandalph, on 11 May 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

We cant configure Clan Mech Engine,structure,amor and heatsinks.

Who else is pissed about it? Clan mechs will be totally underpowered. When it stays how it is i am out.

Actually, PGI indicated that one could modify per-location armor values... but not change armor types (e.g. change from Standard Armor and Ferro-Fibrous, or vice versa) or (in the case of FF Armor) move armor criticals from one location to another.

Additionally, additional Heat Sinks could be placed on the 'Mech... but, one could not change Heat Sink type (e.g. change from Standard/Single Heat Sinks to Double Heat Sinks, or vice versa) or relocate/remove any of the Heat Sinks that come "hardwired" into the base 'Mech (including "hardwired" Heat Sinks beyond the base 10 that come with the Engine).

The limitations that you're complaining about are, for the most part, actually how OmniMechs were always supposed to work, according to the rules found in BattleTech; the lack of customizability of the base chassis is the trade-off for the far-less-limited customizability of the remaining pod space, relative to "normal" non-OmniTech BattleMechs.
It was the other MW games (particularly MW2 & MW3) that "got it wrong".

[Abisha]

not sure what to say.

trial mechs are very good designed, i expect that clan mechs are great designed.

[RedDragon]

Strum Wealh, on 11 May 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

The limitations that you're complaining about are, for the most part, actually how OmniMechs were always supposed to work, according to the rules found in BattleTech; the lack of customizability of the base chassis is the trade-off for the far-less-limited customizability of the remaining pod space, relative to "normal" non-OmniTech BattleMechs.
It was the other MW games (particularly MW2 & MW3) that "got it wrong".

*sigh* No, Omnimechs are as customizable as Battlemechs. that means they aren't at all if you don't want to basically make a new chassis out of them. The rule that PGI took out of context and that many people like you are misquoting is meant to tell you that hardwired equipment can't be swapped out by pod space without actually changing the whole mech - exactly as it is with Battlemechs.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

It is a little annoying but considering how OP clan tech was in the TT game keeping this aspect of their design in place goes a long way towards balancing them.

[SgtMagor]

I always thought of clan mechs being superior to IS mechs because you are able to change and add anything on the mech, do field repairs and or equipment replacement on the fly!. but I hadn't ran a clan mech in years, so my memory is a little foggy

[Aim-Bot]

they also nerf the clan weapon systems. the costumiaztion limits plus the weapon nerf will make clan mechs totally underpowered.

[FupDup]

Not being able to change heatsink types is not a weakness for the most part, because the vast majority of them already come with DHS by default. You'd have no reason to ever switch to SHS.

However, the few rare Omnis that do start with SHS, like the Owens and Strider, are pretty much DOA as a result. They simply will not be able to pack anywhere near the firepower of other Inner Sphere mechs of similar or even lesser weight (well, at least not if they hope to be able to have above 1.0 heat efficiency).

Edited by FupDup, 11 May 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Zieten]

Strum Wealh, on 11 May 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

The limitations that you're complaining about are, for the most part, actually how OmniMechs were always supposed to work, according to the rules found in BattleTech; the lack of customizability of the base chassis is the trade-off for the far-less-limited customizability of the remaining pod space, relative to "normal" non-OmniTech BattleMechs.
It was the other MW games (particularly MW2 & MW3) that "got it wrong".

No. Clan mechs were called "Omnimechs" because you could change their layout, whereas regular IS battlemechs (later the IS invented Omni Mechs too) were actually not really moddable.
Clan mechs were outright superior in any aspect to their inner sphere counterparts (one of the reason their tore through them like a hot knife through butter at first). PGI just can't add them like they were for it would render IS mechs pointless

[Aim-Bot]

No question they have to balance the clan mechs but this is absolutely the wrong way

[Gyrok]

MetalGandalph, on 11 May 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

they also nerf the clan weapon systems. the costumiaztion limits plus the weapon nerf will make clan mechs totally underpowered.

They can only go so far in limiting them...stock weapon values for damage should remain the same, just the mechanics behind them will be different.

[Strum Wealh]

RedDragon, on 11 May 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

*sigh* No, Omnimechs are as customizable as Battlemechs. that means they aren't at all if you don't want to basically make a new chassis out of them. The rule that PGI took out of context and that many people like you are misquoting is meant to tell you that hardwired equipment can't be swapped out by pod space without actually changing the whole mech - exactly as it is with Battlemechs.

No, it's not taken out of context.

"The engine type, rating and placement of its critical slots must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in that OmniMech’s completed primary or alternate configurations."
(TechManual, pg. 48)

"The type of internal structure and placement of any critical slots required must be determined upon the design of the base configuration. All complete primary and alternate configurations thereafter must use the same arrangement of internal structure critical slots."
(TechManual, pg. 47)

"The type, weight, number of points and critical slots (if any) required for an OmniMech’s armor must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in the completed primary or alternate configurations."
(TechManual, pg. 55)

Each of those is the complete text of each related rule; they are not taken out of context and "...may not be altered in that OmniMech’s completed primary or alternate configurations..." means exactly what it says: those aspects of the OmniMech may not be altered between configurations.

However, the armor allocations for OmniMechs are supposed to be fixed (and were originally announced as such by PGI), but PGI then opted to allow modification of the armor allocations (but not armor type) as a concession to the players.

----------

Zieten, on 11 May 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

No. Clan mechs were called "Omnimechs" because you could change their layout, whereas regular IS battlemechs (later the IS invented Omni Mechs too) were actually not really moddable.
Clan mechs were outright superior in any aspect to their inner sphere counterparts (one of the reason their tore through them like a hot knife through butter at first). PGI just can't add them like they were for it would render IS mechs pointless

OmniMechs were designated as such die to the flexibility within their allotted pod space.

As noted above, many of the core elements of the base OmniMech (including internal structure, Engine, armor, the presence of MASC or TSM, certain fixed weapons & equipment, and so on) were NOT end-user-modifiable.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 11 May 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[Flyby215]

Everyone seems to have different expectations and different opinions about the clan arrival.

If anyone thinks that MWO will stick closely to the lore, and the Clan mechs will be vastly superior such that a player can load up a clan mech with their saved up c-bills and roflstomp anyone foolish enough to still be running IS mechs, then said person will be sorely disappointed.

PGI won't introduce anything that obsoletes every other mech released to date (though one would wonder since the Awesome, Trebuchet, Locust among others are effectively obsolete...).

[Bobzilla]

IS is more customisable than Clan with the HP system. I think the whole non-pinpoint clan weapons is going to make them bad more than their inflexibility.

[Mcgral18]

Bobzilla, on 11 May 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

IS is more customisable than Clan with the HP system. I think the whole non-pinpoint clan weapons is going to make them bad more than their inflexibility.

I just hope I get the Nova U side torsi. 8 MGs and 12 ERSLs. Awful range...but all dem weapons.

20 hardpoints on a 50 ton mech.

The lack of omni slots might be annoying for some mechs, since the nova might not even get a missile HP if we just get the A+B.

Edited by Mcgral18, 11 May 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[Abisha]

Flyby215, on 11 May 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Everyone seems to have different expectations and different opinions about the clan arrival.

If anyone thinks that MWO will stick closely to the lore, and the Clan mechs will be vastly superior such that a player can load up a clan mech with their saved up c-bills and roflstomp anyone foolish enough to still be running IS mechs, then said person will be sorely disappointed.

PGI won't introduce anything that obsoletes every other mech released to date (though one would wonder since the Awesome, Trebuchet, Locust among others are effectively obsolete...).

finally someone with some critical thinking.

[Strum Wealh]

Mcgral18, on 11 May 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

I just hope I get the Nova S side torsi. 8 MGs and 12 ERSLs. Awful range...but all dem weapons.

20 hardpoints on a 50 ton mech.

The lack of omni slots might be annoying for some mechs, since the nova might not even get a missile HP if we just get the A+B.

Well, PGI did mention that "OmniPods can exist for configurations that [they] do not sell as complete 'Mechs in the store", mand even used the Black Hawk as a specific example.

"E.g. The Black Hawk D only has 2 hardpoints, and could be hard to justify making as a 'Mech on its own, but the hardpoints are unique compared to other configurations. So the OmniPod of the Black Hawk D’s right arm OmniPod could be made available to place on other configurations."

So, it is possible that you could still get your missile-armed Black Hawk even if the Black Hawk D is not released as a separate configuration...

[RedDragon]

Strum Wealh, on 11 May 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

No, it's not taken out of context.

"The engine type, rating and placement of its critical slots must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in that OmniMech’s completed primary or alternate configurations."
(TechManual, pg. 48)

"The type of internal structure and placement of any critical slots required must be determined upon the design of the base configuration. All complete primary and alternate configurations thereafter must use the same arrangement of internal structure critical slots."
(TechManual, pg. 47)

"The type, weight, number of points and critical slots (if any) required for an OmniMech’s armor must be established when designing an OmniMech’s base configuration, and may not be altered in the completed primary or alternate configurations."
(TechManual, pg. 55)

Each of those is the complete text of each related rule; they are not taken out of context and "...may not be altered in that OmniMech’s completed primary or alternate configurations..." means exactly what it says: those aspects of the OmniMech may not be altered between configurations.

Yes, exactly. But PGI takes it out of context and claims that those rules are special for Omnimechs. They make it sound as if you could make these changes on Battlemechs and use it as tool to nerf Omnimechs when in fact the rules are only there to clarify that Omnimechs are not special in that regard and are to be treated as Battlemechs. So the "weakness" PGI uses to nerf the Omnis should in fact be applied to Battlemechs as well.

[Hellcat420]

the thing that pisses me off the most is that clan mechs cant use pods to mount jumpjets like they should be able to