28 replies to this topic

[Blood Rose]

I was in my settings the other day, removing the music as I like to listen to my own when I a little tick box that said "activate C3 VOIP". So, ive ticked it, believing it to be the in game verbal chat but nothing seems to have happened. What does it do?

Edited by Egomane, 14 May 2014 - 06:15 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Short answer: nothing, sorry.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Yeah its dead. According to recent posts in game Voip is coming. I am waiting patiently for it. Then I will join a team as I won't be taking advantage of others and the gameplay will be fair.

[Blood Rose]

Thank guys. I guess ill keep it active, and one day when im old and gray ill hear the voices of other Mechwarriors, speaking and communicating.... One day in the far future.....

[SweetJackal]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 14 May 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

The original implementation of C3 did not turn out to be as popular as other third-party VOIP options.

We are currently investigating alternate solutions we can build into the game.

To further expand on this. The original implementation of the C3 VoIP software only opened up a channel when you started to create a group. That is, it was created in the pregame group invites and only with your group, not with the 12 players on your side when you dropped into a game. This design was only offering functionality to the Group Players, which was the demographic that was already using TS and Mumble.

So lack of incentive to use and the software had stability problems as well which impacted the ability for players to even try to use it over TS and Mumble for convenience sake.

[Pygar]

http://teamspeak.com/

....just sayin'.



(Sorry, I am in the "No, PGI should not make VoIP, people should just download TS instead and let PGI work on other content" camp. The reality of PGI doing VoIP is this: they will spend a ton of time on it, only to have X amount of the player base shut it off instantly because they don't like talking to people or something, X amount of the player base will be perfect examples of why the people who don't like to talk to people don't like to talk to people, and X amount of us will insist on using teamspeak anyways because that's what we are used to doing, that's what our clan/house/guild is using, and it's a really good program with lots of nice features that "C3 VoIP" is never going to have.)

[SweetJackal]

Pygar, on 14 May 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

http://teamspeak.com/

....just sayin'.



(Sorry, I am in the "No, PGI should not make VoIP, people should just download TS instead and let PGI work on other content" camp. The reality of PGI doing VoIP is this: they will spend a ton of time on it, only to have X amount of the player base shut it off instantly because they don't like talking to people or something, X amount of the player base will be perfect examples of why the people who don't like to talk to people don't like to talk to people, and X amount of us will insist on using teamspeak anyways because that's what we are used to doing, that's what our clan/house/guild is using, and it's a really good program with lots of nice features that "C3 VoIP" is never going to have.)

The problem with your opinion 'camp' is that there is little to no means for PUG players to communicate in a reasonable manner. The chat system is very limited in being able to communicate in a responsive fashion and it leaves your awareness very much limited to your own ability rather than teamwork.

The camp of "Use Teamspeak" means that small private groups aren't communicating with the whole. It is very unreasonable to expect a teamspeak server ip to be provided by one person in the match and then every random on your side to connect to it, sound check and balance their audio to each other.

There is no reason for VOIP to be held from the masses in the game as doing so only limits possible teamplay and promotes a worse environment for the average player. DOTA2 and Planetside2 provide perfect examples of how to do blanket VOIP systems in game, how to limit and prevent abuse while putting control and choice in the hands of the players themselves.

Something to remember is that the progression of the average player goes from being a brand new lone wolf introduced to the game to slowly being a faction player or grouping with the Merc Company after a time. If communication is never introduced to the average player until they reach the Merc Company level then you're putting an extra gate for them and hiding a bit of the drive to find them as you are limiting teamplay from the average player.

Rose-wheel and VOIP are needed in the game and can be done very well to the point of making TS unnecessary but should be designed to offer functionality to Solos, Lone Wolves and PUG Players first and expand that option to make it tempting to Group Players. Doing so also means that an 11+1vs12 or other mixed groups in a queue becomes feasible as all players are given the tools to connect with each other in a reasonable fashion. Doing so promotes teamwork and further promotes groups like Companies, Mercs and Loyalty Units.

Edited by SuckyJack, 14 May 2014 - 10:31 AM.

[Boris The Spider]

SuckyJack, on 14 May 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Something to remember is that the progression of the average player goes from being a brand new lone wolf introduced to the game to slowly being a faction player or grouping with the Merc Company after a time. If communication is never introduced to the average player until they reach the Merc Company level then you're putting an extra gate for them and hiding a bit of the drive to find them as you are limiting teamplay from the average player.

I do wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. There are public team-speak servers available for unaffiliated pick up groups and have been since closed beta. You do not need to join a unit to use VOIP and there is no minimum level of experience expected (I have seen players on there so new they are asking for help on installing the game!) all you need to do is accept that it will slow your game play down slightly as you have to wait for the other group members to complete a round before you can drop again. And as for the argument that you can only talk to a small section of your team, in Battlefield 2 you could only speak to 5 out of the 31 other players on your team. Inter-squad communication needed to be typed, indicated with map icons and in rare occurrences could be relayed by a commander.

OP, until PGI implement an in-game VOIP system, check out :

http://mwomercs.com/...then-look-here/

[Raggedyman]

Boris The Spider, on 14 May 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

I do wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. There are public team-speak servers available for unaffiliated pick up groups and have been since closed beta. You do not need to join a unit to use VOIP and there is no minimum level of experience expected

Having public team-speak servers available and them being lovely places for people to join is one thing, having them presented and endorsed is another. The "gate" factor comes in as soon as you don't have something built into the game, and they include things like

• People not knowing they exist (because they aren't exactly publicised along with the rest of the game)
  
• People not knowing which one to join (and being worried they will pick "the wrong one", including which software to get)
  
• People not knowing which ones are 'allowed' to join (including such things as 'is it safe?', 'will I be skilled enough to join?' & 'am I in the right group?'
  
• People not knowing if other people will be on there and in their game (because why spend time and effort and bandwidth setting up something if you think it won't have a game value to it)

And a whole bunch of other gates (small, medium and large, actual and psychological) which they have to get through before being VOIPed up.

Which is not to say that the public servers aren't lovely places (they are!), just that the gates exist and not having something official (even just a 'we endorse this server, join it!' from the devs) cuts down how many will use something that doesn't come with the game itself.

[SweetJackal]

Boris The Spider, on 14 May 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

I do wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. There are public team-speak servers available for unaffiliated pick up groups and have been since closed beta. You do not need to join a unit to use VOIP and there is no minimum level of experience expected (I have seen players on there so new they are asking for help on installing the game!) all you need to do is accept that it will slow your game play down slightly as you have to wait for the other group members to complete a round before you can drop again. And as for the argument that you can only talk to a small section of your team, in Battlefield 2 you could only speak to 5 out of the 31 other players on your team. Inter-squad communication needed to be typed, indicated with map icons and in rare occurrences could be relayed by a commander.

OP, until PGI implement an in-game VOIP system, check out :

http://mwomercs.com/...then-look-here/

Public team speak servers aren't a solution. Why? Because you're expecting every player in the match to have teamspeak running, get on the correct teamspeak server and organize themselves to the channel themselves. Now how many players don't even know that exists?

So how does that debunk the statement of "Team Wide VOIP doesn't exist until you reached Unit level of organization and promotion of Exclusively TS VOIP Solutions creates small pockets of independent groups which excludes communication with the rest of the team?"

The myth isn't that Public Teamspeak servers don't exist or that people don't use them. The Myth is that it is reasonable to expect every player to Alt-Tab out of the game, join the correct TS Server/Channel and sound off to being on the proper team.

Remove the extra hurdles to be able to communicate with your own team. That's what this is about. Complete access to tools to work with your team at the most basic level. Communication tools need to be provided by the game itself, not outside influences in order for it to be reasonably accessible to the entire community. There is no excuse for the lack of them as again, DOTA2 and Planetside2 provide fantastic designs as to how to do it.

As for your point of it not being needed due to BF2 only having 6 man channels for your average player: Those were 6 man channels managed and tiered by the game itself and supplemented with a Rose-Wheel and Team Wide Commander Chat with a designated Commander to issue orders and provide benefits. Even then that is an old game that provides better communication skills and is still limited by the standards set today, not even matching up to Natural Selection 2.

The average player in the game right now does not have the means to communicate with their teammates in a reasonable fashion. They are not aware of the Public TS servers, do not read the forums, their teammates aren't on the TS server and even if all 12 players proved to be false to those statements they would still have to be on the same TS server and organized into the same channel. PUG players, that's a reasonable expectation?

The entire point of making VOIP part of the basic toolset provided by the game is that you promote the use of VOIP and Teamwork by doing so. You promote awareness through communication and that progresses to tactics and strategy. Which means that more players are exposed to that environment and can become driven to the group play setting. Meaning they experience the drive to join Units and get more involved in the game than just clicking "Play Now" and improve the most basic experience the game offers.

Can VOIP be abused by toxic elements? Yes. Though there are fantastic designs that put the control of who they hear into the hands of the player that is listening. PS2 has a robust and simple to use in game sound board to alter the volume or mute any channel or any player in those tiered channels. DOTA2 uses a commendation system to be able to tag players using abusive/foul language and then limit those players to communicating by the Rose Wheel exclusively for a set time.

How the hell is more choice in the hands of the player a bad thing?

[Boris The Spider]

My point wasn’t that in game VOIP was not needed, it was needed in closed beta, but that people are presenting it on the forums as being far more complicated than it actually is. Public team-speak works exactly the same way as the Battlefield VOIP system does. You chose a server, look for a squad/lance with a space, click join, say hello. That is it. You now have VOIP.

Once you are aware of it, the only reason not to use it is that it slows down your drop rate. I completely agree that its not well enough publicised, I completely agree that we need an in-game solution. I would love a command rose and for the 3 lances VOIPs to be tied together by a designated commander. But even getting a command rose out of PGI is likely to be over a year away. Until then people should just stop with the, PUG's have no VOIP and you have to be in an organised unit to use VOIP. Its not true but is repeated or implied every single time this subject comes up. Its 3 mouse clicks and its done, direct communication with up to 3 members of your team means frees you up to type more, you get 3 extra pairs of eyes looking at the map and HUD, interpreting the already substantial information is supplies. The more people who do this, the better quality teamwork and games everybody has.

[RAM]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 14 May 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

The original implementation of C3 did not turn out to be as popular as other third-party VOIP options.

We are currently investigating alternate solutions we can build into the game.

Probably because it was never actually implemented. C3 is the most powerful gaming VIOP currently available and is used by Sony & CCP among others. If it works for EVE & Planetside2 it would work VERY well for us. Vivox would even put in considerable effort to integrate it properly.

Fix C3 rather than abandoning it.


RAM
ELH

[Elkfire]

SuckyJack, on 14 May 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

How the hell is more choice in the hands of the player a bad thing?

A question I've been asking for a while now. Most modern (and even not-so-modern) online team-based games have built-in voice chat, so seeing people arguing against it makes no sense to me. The most common argument is "I don't want to listen to annoying people," but a mute button (which, again, is included for pretty much all modern incarnations of in-game voice chat) solves that problem handily.

So I'm left with the consideration that it might be people who primarily play in premades not wanting to give up their communication advantage. I know, I know, I'm wearing my tinfoil hat, but I honestly can't think of any other reason not to support the implementation of a feature so pervasive that it's generally taken for granted these days.

Edited by Elkfire, 14 May 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[Zaggeron]

Boris The Spider, on 14 May 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

My point wasn’t that in game VOIP was not needed, it was needed in closed beta, but that people are presenting it on the forums as being far more complicated than it actually is. Public team-speak works exactly the same way as the Battlefield VOIP system does. You chose a server, look for a squad/lance with a space, click join, say hello. That is it. You now have VOIP.

You are also now technically in a premade and hence (when the patch actually arrives) will be the only pre-made on your team. So now I can talk to 3 other players (if the team is full) and have deprived my team of an actually organized premade. Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

What I want is to be able to talk to or hear my entire team without dropping as a group.

[Raggedyman]

If I may

1. You join a game
2. You find that the game has no official VOIP
3. You (maybe) hunt around the forums for an official VOIP alternative
4. you down load and install the VOIP software

Boris The Spider, on 14 May 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

5. You chose a server
6. look for a squad/lance with a space and that wants you to join their lances and that is on right at the time you want to play
7. click join on the VOIP service,

8. You buddy up in game
9. You group drop
10. Are in game with VOIP

But, if you have it built in:

1. You hit "Play Now
2. You have VOIP


More points to go 'fexk it' and not VOIP

More time spent trying to find a server that is friendly
More time spent going down blind alleys and having complications thrown at you
More gates than having it built in

Edited by Raggedyman, 14 May 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[Boris The Spider]

Ragedy, I have absolutely no idea where all these extra steps you have inserted come from, something I have not experienced since once since my 1^st day playing this game.

My steps obviously include that you are aware that the public VOIP option exist, sneakily hidden, stickied at the top of the new player help. And they are, 1) join the VOIP server, 2) find a group with space 3) join the group. And that is all that you need to do! “and that is on right at the time you want to play” Why would they be in a public team channel if they are not playing!!!! This is exactly what I'm talking about when people are over-complicating the process. It is no different to joining a squad in Battlefield other than the squad interface is in a separate window.

It sounds to me like you have never even tried using it.

Zaggeron, on 14 May 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

You are also now technically in a premade and hence (when the patch actually arrives) will be the only pre-made on your team. So now I can talk to 3 other players (if the team is full) and have deprived my team of an actually organized premade. Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

What I want is to be able to talk to or hear my entire team without dropping as a group.

Well as VPUGs wont be going anywhere and make up a substantial amount of the 'pre-mades' already, I sugest you just deal with it.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 14 May 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Elkfire, on 14 May 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

A question I've been asking for a while now. Most modern (and even not-so-modern) online team-based games have built-in voice chat, so seeing people arguing against it makes no sense to me. The most common argument is "I don't want to listen to annoying people," but a mute button (which, again, is included for pretty much all modern incarnations of in-game voice chat) solves that problem handily.

So I'm left with the consideration that it might be people who primarily play in premades not wanting to give up their communication advantage. I know, I know, I'm wearing my tinfoil hat, but I honestly can't think of any other reason not to support the implementation of a feature so pervasive that it's generally taken for granted these days.

Yep, Its the Human condition to maintain advantage anyway one can no matter how silly it sounds.

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 14 May 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

The original implementation of C3 did not turn out to be as popular as other third-party VOIP options.

We are currently investigating alternate solutions we can build into the game.

Only reason I am hanging on. Thank you.

[Goose]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 14 May 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

The original implementation of C3 did not turn out to be as popular as other third-party VOIP options.

IIRC, there was a certain amount of "everyone restart their client" to get as few as two people into two-way comms with the fool thing …

[Zaggeron]

Boris The Spider, on 14 May 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Well as VPUGs wont be going anywhere and make up a substantial amount of the 'pre-mades' already, I sugest you just deal with it.

Well since they already said they are adding in-game VOIP I won't have to "deal with it" whatever that is supposed to mean. But it does seem funny how you seem to think that a 3rd party 4 person VOIP solution is an adequate substitute for full team in-game VOIP.

So when you say "join a public TS server" since that solution is not equivalent to full team chat, what you are really saying is I don't care what you and a bunch of other folks want, since the existing solution is fine for me, it must be fine for everyone. Obviously though that is not true since these threads complaining about its lack keep popping up.

[Boris The Spider]

Zag, when they say they are adding in-game VOIP, the time frame is more than likely going to be well over 6 month to a year away, if it even happens at all. So yes, your going to have to deal with the possibility of the 'pre-made' on your team being a PUG from a public team-speak server for the foreseeable future.

Its not about if the solution that we have now is sufficient, its that it is the only solution we have. The OP expressed an interest in playing with VOIP, I pointed him to a means to have VOIP in 5 minutes, not next year. Which was, as it always is, rebuked by people who have clearly never used the existing system. So hows about the OP decides if what is offered is sufficient for him, now?